elcruxio

Now that I've given it some though I think there might be something to the expensive custom frames. Or the thing about them is the beefier oversized tubing. Because I got to thinking when looking at my SO's Trek 520, that the tubes on it aren't all that thick. Of course at size 54 it isn't an issue in any way, but for me, where I would need a size 61 or 63 or what ever the biggest size is, it might cause some issues. But this is more to the point that heavier people and bigger frames also need thicker stiffer tubing.

But the answer isn't necessarily to dish out huge amounts of cash for a custom, except if you
1) need the geometry
2) want the nifty aspects of a custom (rohloff dropouts etc)
3) want to choose the tubing yourself (this should be an option as again, cromo is cromo made in the USA or not, although taiwanese cromo might as well be better...)

There is another type of bike that uses thicker oversized steel tubes and that is the mountain bike. Basically if the geometry fits (with an MTB this takes a bit more fiddling of course) one could make a seriously sturdy touring bike on the cheap out of a steel mountain bike. Or a fatbike, all things considered that might be pretty optimal.

bikemig 

That's not quite right. Touring bikes are often built with a bit thicker tubing (Reynolds for example has a special touring set; the manufacturer of course can spec what it wants when it buys steel tubing and good manufacturers often do this with their touring bikes). Take a look at what Soma says about the Saga or Surly says about the LHT. These are stout bikes. You can always write the manufacturer and ask them about the tubing which is spec'd on these bikes to get more detail. Gunnar (which is half way between a custom and an off the shelf frame) uses thicker tubing for its touring bike.

I'm not talking about oversized tubing but rather double butted tubing sets with the butts a bit thicker. Even for non-touring bikes, a little thicker tubing was often spec'd on larger bikes (columbus SP for example was typically used on larger bikes rather than columbus SL).

Other than a special geometry, the differences between a custom touring and an off the shelf touring bike can be vanishingly small.

cyber.snow

Interesting thought here, I was all set to give the Surly Disc Trucker a shot until I read the article on the Surly website about putting kickstands on their LHT. Seems you can bend the tubing...made me worry more than a little about how tough the bike really is and how thin of a tubing they are using. While my discussions with a couple of the West Coast builders have been that they can easily add a kickstand plate on their bikes and beef up that area if needed.

I see the decision, for me, on whether to go custom or production as one on how long will I keep this bike and how much will I really ride it? Silly as it may seem, a $1500 bike set up ridden a 100 times comes out at $15 a ride, ridden a 1000 times it is $1.50 a ride...custom bike at $4000 is $40 and $4.00 a ride...but if I end up selling the cheaper bike because it doesn't do the job, don't like the fit, or a bunch of other reasons, the math goes out the window...and if I ride the custom bike almost every day for a decade, it comes out darn cheap. Over the past few years, I have bought at least one bike per year and sold one bike per year; the financial manager in me says that is a stupid thing to be doing, so custom may be the way to go.

NeilGunton

Surly's warning only really applies to the area of the chainstays just behind the bottom bracket, because the metal is very thin and delicate there (at least with regard to crushing). But I don't really like kickstands that go there anyway, since they interfere with turning the pedals (useful when servicing the drivetrain while on the stand). The rear-mount Greenfield Stabilizer is much nicer, it mounts back near the hub, and clamps onto the chainstay and seat stay where the tubing isn't as fragile. The only potential issues there are if you have disc brakes, and the little spoke holder nipple on the chainstay. I actually took that spoke holder off on my Rocky Mountain Sherpa, with a dremel. Then the Greenfield fits fine (no disc brakes). On my Co-Motion, I had disc brakes, and still wanted the Greenfield, so I had them make a custom kickstand mount.

crazyguyonabike.com: Bicycle Touring: Forums: Bikes (page 36)

My review of the Greenfield Stabilizer:

Bicycle Touring: Review: Kickstands: #1: "Greenfield Stabilizer rear kickstand", posted by Neil Gunton*(neil)*(admin) on Tue 3 Oct 2006 13:33 (US/Pacific)

Neil

grolby

You don't need to worry about the Surly being tough enough. Bicycle tubing is extremely strong in tension, pretty darn strong in compression, and pretty weak against crushing forces. Any touring bike without a kickstand plate is going to have the same problem. The issue is mostly that you can end up putting a lot of force on the chainstays if you lean a loaded bike on a kickstand, as well as just crushing them if you tighten that sucker down really aggressively. For what it's worth, I had a kickstand on an LHT for a while with no issues. I used cut up pieces of an old inner tube to protect the tubing from direct contact with the kickstand bits. However, I eventually came to the conclusion that a single-leg kickstand was mostly useless on a touring bike anyway, and the double-leg versions were too expensive to be worthwhile. So I got rid of it.

tarwheel 

BTW, the Soma Saga has a kickstand plate standard.

Like others said, the tubing used on touring frames is generally stouter and/or larger diameter than regular tubing. That's one reason why touring frames tend to be heavier.

tstege83

Also for anyone who's is in the market Comotion has a 54cm pangea show bike for sale for $3000 on their website. Just wanted to throw that out there as their website is hard to sort thru. I was thinking about it for the wife but I want a rohloff for her also.

tstege83

The true price of a comotion pangea or similar can be brought down considerably by purchasing just the frame. I am into mine $5200 sourced the rohloff for $1100 and picked every other part very carefully. My frame is non custom 58cm charcoal with stainless drop out dynamo specific fork. I built it bomb proof and did my own version of lights and USB charger. I am very happy with it. I did not get couplers. I do not like them. If someone can explain how to upload photos I can post them up dice it is rare to see pictures of them.

max5480

The biggest advantage "average" touring bikes have is that they cost less money and should thus be used if you aren't rich. That extra grand could keep you cycling for an extra couple months - so long as your bike doesn't break down.

I think it matters more to have a bike that you love to ride and tour on (well, and clearance for phat tires). Everything else can be McGyvered.

MassiveD

Doubtless true, but basically in life if you need it, it comes to you. I know lots of people who are into cruising, these are dirt poor people, their dream just happens to include a honking big yacht. I have tons of money, or did pre 09, yet the largest boat I have is 24 feet, and I am currently using a 16 footer and building a 14 footer. I like to build my own bikes, and boats, but I tend to think small. There is no reason why you can't have a good bike, look at the average Harley owner. The only thing is one has to think out of the box enough to actually need one. And as you say, Tourists are good at thinking about how to make a little bit of money go further. It's a cheapskate sport.

MassiveD

I had a chance a few years back to buy the 37 foot boat of my dreams in southern Florida, for 13K and I screwed it up so it wouldn't happen. It isn't the money. The motor and trailer could have been instantly resold for that amount when dragged north.