Stucky

In most respects I'd agree- but the "feel" of metal is not reproduceable in CF. Picture the difference between a plastic Big Wheel and a real steel bike that you may have had as a kid. You could make the bikes handle the same; have the same stiffness and comfort, etc. but the way the different materials transmit the feel of the surface you are riding on, is inherent to the material it is made of. Blindfolded, you can tell the difference between aluminum; steel; titanium; and CF- even if all the bikes were built to handle and respond with the exact same chara cteristics- they just have a different feel as to how the road surface is transmitted from the wheels through the frame. CF reminds me of a Big Wheel....



Depends on where and how you ride, I guess. I live in the hills, and frequently need to make big shifts (i.e. not one or two cogs....but maybe 7, quickly)- With DT's, one flick and you can go fully to either end of the cassette or anywhere in between. With the FD, you can precisely control the trim, on either ring. AND, I like the direct feeling of the DTs- i.e. the lever is directly attached to the cable- vs. the ratcheting mechanism of the brifters. Yeah, brifters can sometimes be a litle more convenient.....but that really isn't an issue for me.

chasm54

Well, if you allowed me to choose the forks, wheels and tyres I'd be prepared to bet that blindfolded, you couldn't tell the difference between identically-configured steel and carbon frames. But we're never going to have the chance to test that hypothesis, so...




Oh, I've ridden plenty of mountains. I can't really imagine a scenario in which I'd want to move seven gears in a single shift, and I can click through the indexed gears with a brifter faster than I lose speed with the changes of gradient. We'll have to agree to disagree.

OldTryGuy

Have a '83 Paramount with Simplex DT levers, the best, and would never be able to shift while on the hoods climbing like I can on my '13 Propel SL. Can't be done!

cale

Hey, if you want to give away the Scattante, I'll pay reasonable shipping. Just saying, you'd be giving up just about everything that makes newer models more fun for "my style".

It is just horrible what history has done to you... (mild sarcasm). Haha

El Gato27

Yes, I realize my life if full of hardships, I just take it one step at a time.

I've told my son; who plays trombone, that he will never be able to play the Blues.

cale

Surely he could play these...

rydabent

Down tube shifters are much more efficient since there is only the one cable housing at the rear to cause wear and drag. Brifter bikes have 4 cables waving around in the wind, but down tube shifter bikes only have two.

max5480

You're dilemma is that riding bikes is fun!

For some reason, no matter how much love i give or time I've ridden my carbon bike - every time I think about the best ride of my life, it was on my dad's 87 Italian steel frame. My closest riding partner feels the exact same way - maybe it's because that's what we rode when we did our first long rides together. Either way, we still will take the old frames out together. The carbon modern bike is my rain, everyday, and putting on the miles bike. Love the steel, so got to take care of it.

Stucky

Some of my fondest cycling memories were made on an old BSO which I found in the garbage and resurrected years ago. It was a piece of crap; I wasn't really even into cycling at the time; didn't keep track of how far I rode or how fast [read: slow] I went- I just rode the darn thing and had a ball- probably largely because I didn't have to give a thought to the bike- as long as it went when I pedaled, and stopped when asked to, that was it. I knew nothing of "good bikes"; it didn't matter- it was about the ride, not the bike. I never came close to having such fun on my former Venge- even though these days, I can ride further and faster than when I had the BSO. It's more fun when you don't take it too seriously. If you have an expensive bike and some gadgets, it forces you to take it more seriously than you ought.

RidesaJapanese

I have a most likely early 80's Takara 12 speed, I can't imagine ever wanting another road bike. Like another poster said, the 80's steel road bikes were in a class of their own. I did toy with the idea of maybe upgrading it to an 18 speed, but it's fine the way it is. I'm 44 with bad knees and sciatica, so it's not as easy to get up hills as a 21 speed Trek, but it does get up them fine.

Ic3Bik3

I totally agree. My favourite ride is an early 80's Fuji Royale. It fits me and is as nimble as a wasp. Stings like one too, if I do anything stupid. Picked it up at a yard sale for $45. Got my son a beautiful mid 80's Fuji Del Ray 10th anniversary a while back. Needed nothing to get it on the road, and he rides it up /down Hamilton mountain for work 2x/day. That one was my best find - found it at a recycling yard, picked it up for the price of scrap. A whopping $15. He loves the bike, and the only reason I didn't keep it is that it was too big for me. The only bike I have that comes close to being as much fun as the Royale is my 2011 KHS Flite 100, and it's a single spd.

rekmeyata

This is why I bought a titanium bike instead of another AL, CF, or even another steel bike. I too test rode a bunch of bikes and none had the ride quality of any of my vintage steel bikes...except another steel bike of course which I didn't want another I have a bunch, but titanium actually rode better. Fortunately I have two friends who have ti bikes, one was a Serotta and the other a Motobecane and I got to ride those quite a bit. I ended up with a Lynskey Peloton because of three reasons, the most important reason was they ride better than any other frame material (in my opinion of course), it was on sale and the Motobecane was out of stock at Bikes Direct for 1 1/2 years; but that Motobecane is the best deal on the planet for a TI bike.

Garfield Cat

Do the frame builders of today refer to custom frame builders? I can imagine that frame building can be of any material but carbon would be a bit more technical because of the various types of carbon and the multi stages of how the layups are to be applied.

Stucky

I've always lusted after those Motobecane Ti's.....and every time I read one of your posts, I'm really tempted!


Not to mention that they'd have to make a custom mold for every custom frame...which would be ridiculously cost-prohibitive- unless of course they were to use carbon tube/lugged construction, but what would be the point to that?

rekmeyata

Every year BD has those TI Motobecanes people review them and can find no real fault especially when considering the price. After I rode one a bunch of times that a friend of mine owns I was set to buy it, but when I got the money saved up and went to order one it was out of stock. The owner (?) of BD e-mailed me and said they would have them in stock in 30 days, 30 days later and not in stock, the owner again e-mailed me and said about 60 days which would be their spring arrival, again nothing came in, this went on for about a year at which point I gave up when I found a Lynskey on a promotional sale. As much as I like the Lynskey it's not $1,500 better! even though I did get some swaps done to it that BD cannot do at all. $1,500 is an estimated difference between 105 that I got and Ultegra that the MB has, nor is the Serotta TI bike another friend of mine has $5,000 better! In fact when riding all 3 now, while the Lynskey seems to be more sure footed then either there is nothing glaring between the three.

Funny, I buy a Lynskey but I push the Moto, but that's because the price can't be beaten and you don't get some inferior bike, like I said there's nothing glaring about it, even the welds look great, all things I found are just very minor quibbles that I had bought one I could have cared less about!!! I do think the Lynskey is a the second best TI bike for the price, the frame is assembled in the USA and thus it does employ Americans, and Lynskey is the original owner of Litespeed and it was he that developed all the modern methods that are used to day to assemble ti frames, you can go to the Litespeed site and read about the innovations, but keep in mind as you read that Litespeed of today did not do those innovations, Lynskey did.

rex615

I have one of the new CX bikes and love it. 105 x 11 speed and BB7 discs. Even has 135mm rear spacing, so it is easy find disc wheels.

Stucky

HAhahaha! I do the same thing! Gotta love good deals!

Don't know if you still remember the details of riding your friends Moto Ti, but...I was wondering if they are nice and stiff? I've heard that some Ti's can be noodly- and with me spending a lot of time mashing up big hills, that wouldn't be good. I've heard nothing but good things about the Moto Ti's though. Do they still have rim brakes? (I won't have discs on a road bike....)

BikingMountains

Is your old bike steel? Those ride really nice, and there's no replacing it! Or is there something in the geometry that doesn't speak to you? As for me, I have a vintage Bianchi which is my fave, and a new Bianchi which is lighter and faster, but doesn't have the same 'magic' to me. My solution is to ride both, but I've invested a lot in my old one to bring it up to modern standards and it's still my fave! I may eventually go custom to combine everything I like into one bike.

Dang

Had the same experience then I put my old saddle the new bike and made a difference.

Garfield Cat

That might be why custom frame builders just stick to what they know. Kind of self serving.

RolandArthur

Not all is lost, for now. TS just needs to learn you won´t lose your favourite bike if you decide you need one more. A bike is not like a girl, you can have more than one. There is no need to regret the purchase of a new bike.

Stucky

Yeah, and I've never understood the need for custom frames, unless ya have the bodily proportions of a circus freak.

rekmeyata

Of the three, (mine) a Lynskey Peloton, (most expensive) Serotta, and (the lowest costing) the Motobecane: the Motobecane is stiffer in the rear then the Serotta but the Serotta has those S shaped stays for long distance riding comfort, and I think the Lynskey is a tad stiffer in the rear when hammering. The weak spot for the Motobecane is the fork and maybe the headset we discovered, I ordered my Lynskey with a Enve 2.0 and a Cane Creek 110 headset and the front end tracks better and feels more surefooted than especially the Moto which sort of feels noodly? but also even the Serotta which I would put in the middle (not sure who made the Serotta fork, it just says Serotta).

My friend with the Moto after riding my bike a bunch of times bought and installed a Enve 2.0 fork along with the same headset I got a Cane Creek 110 about 2 months ago but I haven't rode it yet to see how it feels, he says it feels a lot better. Ride comfort the Serotta is the most comfortable but again that comfort comes at a cost of having less stiffer stays and when hammering hard you can tell the difference between the Lynskey and the Moto.

But for the price of the Moto even after test riding all 3 and had to choose base on money and the overall best buy I would buy the Moto. At the cost you get that Moto for you can easily afford to get a nice fork and headset for it if it bothers you down the road. You're not going to notice the fork/headset issue unless you ride in an area with lots of sharp fast turns like a mountain area, or are wanting to race it then you might be wanting a stiffer fork and headset, but for the average person they're never going to notice it, but I would say the same thing about the Serotta fork and that Serotta was a heck of lot more money than even my Lynskey was.

As far as disk brakes go, on the Moto road bike they still, and thankfully, use rim brakes, but on the Cross bike they use disk brakes which is good if the bike is going to be used as it is intended to be used. But for the road disk brakes are a waste unless your road riding involves mostly rainy or snowy days.

If you're going to buy a Moto ti road bike I would go whole hog and get the LeChamp SL, it comes with Ultegra brakes instead of Tekra, Ultegra Hollowtech 2 BB/crank instead of FSA Gossamer, and Mavic Ksyrium Equipe S wheels instead of Vuelta Pro wheels, those two differences right there is about a $600 but you're only going to pay $300 more and you won't have to worry about upgrading those later.

Go to this website (this is the same place I got my Lynskey from) and you would have to spend another $800 to get a Lynskey TI bike with Ultegra...which by the way is a great deal on a Lynskey; see: https://www.adrenalinebikes.com/stor...roductid=87739. Titanium prices seem to be dropping because this price is only about $500 more than I paid for mine not including the upgrades. Anyway you can search around and look at other TI brands they sell and you can get a picture of the deal you're getting with the Moto.

Road Fan

He can also watch the used bike market for another Peugeot, and spring when the moment is right!

chasm54

Well, I don't have those proportions, but I do have a custom frame, and it is the best handling bike I own.

My TCR fits me well. My contact points on the custom bike and the TCR are exactly the same distance apart. But on the TCR that is achieved by running a 100mm stem and having the saddle fairly well foward. No problem, it's exactly the sort of adjustment one might expect tp make to ensure a good fit.

The custom frame has a slightly shorter effective top tube, a 1 degree steeper seat tube and a very slightly longer wheelbase. I run a 120mm stem. The effect is that my weight is rotated fractionally forward over the front wheel and the bike handles better as a result. The TCR is entirely adequate, I've raced the bike many times, but the front end feels just a shade "light" by comparison. I can push the limits when cornering with greater confidence on the custom frame.

It's an indulgence, I agree, and quite a lot of money to pay when what one has is, by most standards, more than adequate. And no doubt many people will find stock frames that fit them perfectly with no compromises at all. But to me it has been worth the money to have something that rides exactly as I would wish.