Spindle length with different crank
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
Spindle length with different crank
On my vintage 1983 Trek, I am planning to change the crank. It is a 144bcd Superbe that I plan to replace with a vintage 110bcd Sugino Super Maxy so I can get some lower gearing. Both are doubles, so would I just put it on and see if the chainline is good? Would it be likely that the spindle that is in there that I just serviced should match up?
A followup question regarding chain rings. I see Shimano/Sram chainrings in 34/110 lots cheaper than Sugino. Are these compatible on the Sugino Super Maxy? Friction shift on this vintage bike.
A followup question regarding chain rings. I see Shimano/Sram chainrings in 34/110 lots cheaper than Sugino. Are these compatible on the Sugino Super Maxy? Friction shift on this vintage bike.
Last edited by sd5782; 01-30-20 at 07:53 AM.
#2
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,779
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3583 Post(s)
Liked 3,395 Times
in
1,929 Posts
Chances are it will be close enough to work. Make sure the Super Maxy is in good shape; unlike the forged one-piece Superbe crank, the Super Maxy is a much cheaper two-piece swaged unit, and those sometimes come loose at the swaged joint. If you can find a Mighty Tour crank instead, those also use 110mm BCD rings but have a one piece forged arm like the Superbe you're replacing.
And yes, any 110mm ring will mount on a 110mm arm. With friction shifting you don't really need modern ramps and pins, but they don't hurt if the rings you choose have them.
And yes, any 110mm ring will mount on a 110mm arm. With friction shifting you don't really need modern ramps and pins, but they don't hurt if the rings you choose have them.
Likes For JohnDThompson:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: se MIch.
Posts: 2,301
Bikes: 1938 claud butler,1983 Basso,teledyne titan,teocali super,nrs,1993 stumpjumper fsr,Paramountain,Paramount Buell(sold),4 banger,Zaskar LE,Colnago Master Ibex MTB,1987ish,.etc....
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 2,962 Times
in
1,492 Posts
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
My general philosophy is that if I already own parts I'll test fit almost anything and see what else, if anything, I need to make it work. If I'm BUYING parts, I'm going to hold out for parts that I'm pretty sure are going to work together.
My rule of thumb with cranksets is: the older the crankset, the longer BB spindle needed. I'm thinking that Super May and Superbe are around the same age bracket so I'd guess you have a real good shot for it to work.
My rule of thumb with cranksets is: the older the crankset, the longer BB spindle needed. I'm thinking that Super May and Superbe are around the same age bracket so I'd guess you have a real good shot for it to work.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Likes For Retro Grouch:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Check to be sure the spindle flats are the same angle.
Cheers
Cheers
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
Thanks all
Thanks for the info folks. The Maxy seems solid, so I will give it a try when I get some time. That Mighty Tour is pricey for used ones. I do like the looks of these older Sugino cranks with the flutes in the arms and the cutouts in the spider arms too.
i see Sugino rings are quite pricey too, so I may try a cheaper Shimano style one. Lower gearing will be nicer at my 62 years of age.
i see Sugino rings are quite pricey too, so I may try a cheaper Shimano style one. Lower gearing will be nicer at my 62 years of age.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Your Maxi isn't a 3-arm?
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: se MIch.
Posts: 2,301
Bikes: 1938 claud butler,1983 Basso,teledyne titan,teocali super,nrs,1993 stumpjumper fsr,Paramountain,Paramount Buell(sold),4 banger,Zaskar LE,Colnago Master Ibex MTB,1987ish,.etc....
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 2,962 Times
in
1,492 Posts
if you don't find what your looking for you might want to visit here,4/25-26/2020 ;https://www.lmb.org/ride-calendar/an...d-swap-meet-2/
Last edited by '02 nrs; 02-01-20 at 12:12 PM.
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
5 arm
Bought from small local bike shop for cheap. Pic at this thread;
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...crank-arm.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...crank-arm.html
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,869
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 661 Times
in
504 Posts
if you don't find what your looking for you might want to visit here;Ann Arbor Classic Bicycle Show
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Bought from small local bike shop for cheap. Pic at this thread;
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...crank-arm.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...crank-arm.html
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
You are trying to cost me some money
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,153
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2362 Post(s)
Liked 1,746 Times
in
1,190 Posts
#15
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,779
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3583 Post(s)
Liked 3,395 Times
in
1,929 Posts
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
Doesn’t match up
Well, a different spindle will be in order at least. It turns out that this first gen Superbe is closer to a campy or SIS taper. The Maxy crank also has its inner taper starting further away from the BB. The spindle is marked Superbe 68 W and is 113mm. I will probably take both cranks to the LBS to see how close they can match it up.
Can I keep my same cups and bearings and just purchase a new spindle? I wouldn’t have to mess with the fixed cup that way. I suppose the proper way is to get the Park BB tool and remove the fixed cup too and have all new parts.That fixed cup has been in there since 1983, so the LBS may be needed for removal. It turns out that the Superbe is an odd duck.
Can I keep my same cups and bearings and just purchase a new spindle? I wouldn’t have to mess with the fixed cup that way. I suppose the proper way is to get the Park BB tool and remove the fixed cup too and have all new parts.That fixed cup has been in there since 1983, so the LBS may be needed for removal. It turns out that the Superbe is an odd duck.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
"Fixed cup" is an apt name.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,056
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4195 Post(s)
Liked 3,837 Times
in
2,295 Posts
IIRC Superbe, like the Mighty Comp that proceeded it, used the Campy taper spec. Unlike most all other Sugino and Shimano cranks back then and since. If the incorrect spindle/arm combo is used the arm might fit too far up the taper and bottom out past the tapers or the arm might not fit over the spindle enough and the tapered hole could become "damaged". Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
Yep, that is what I found. The taper is indeed different. The super Maxy sprocket side crank also looks like it is”dished” for lack of a better word further out from the bottom bracket as compared to the Superbe also. This difference looks to be 4-5 mm also plus the matter of the different tapers. Perhaps the co-op has some spindles I could try and keep my bearings and cups. Learning
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,283
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1135 Post(s)
Liked 1,727 Times
in
951 Posts
Yep, that is what I found. The taper is indeed different. The super Maxy sprocket side crank also looks like it is”dished” for lack of a better word further out from the bottom bracket as compared to the Superbe also. This difference looks to be 4-5 mm also plus the matter of the different tapers. Perhaps the co-op has some spindles I could try and keep my bearings and cups. Learning
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
Need new spindle either way
I will need a different spindle whatever I do so as to have the JIS taper versus the Campy/SIS taper that the Superbe 68W spindle has. I will take my parts to the co-op to match up as close as I can. Surely used spindles there will only be a couple dollars, so it won't hurt to try. The Superbe BB parts are dripping with quality and the bearing tracks in the cups are nearly new looking. The pressed together Maxy was very cheap at the co-op, and I like its looks, so I will try that first. I already have a 34 tooth sprocket ordered to go with a 46 tooth one from the co-op so I can get some old man gearing with a double. I believe they have a couple triple cranks there too, so I may get one too in case the Maxy falls apart.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
Bike co-op spindles
Okay, maybe narrowed the size down for the Suer Maxy with the JIS taper vs the Campy taper on the Superbe. I went to the co-op again and picked up several spindles for the costly sum of $1 each. It seems that the 3N will be a good fit. Unfortunately the one I got has 1 small pit in the NDS. I was looking at the style that take a bolt. I was thinking of going back and digging through them again looking at the ones with nutted ends. Is there any real difference?
I also see new Sunlite branded ones on eBay for $9 delivered. Are these recommended, or considered cheap and inferior?
I also see new Sunlite branded ones on eBay for $9 delivered. Are these recommended, or considered cheap and inferior?
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 6,153
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2362 Post(s)
Liked 1,746 Times
in
1,190 Posts
If you're going to spend "real" money, you might just want to go cartridge.
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,493
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
393 Posts
Too sensible
That would just be too sensible. It would make sense to buy newer bikes too I guess, but then I would have to ride them more than work on them. What would I do in the winter then? Actually I enjoy the accomplishment of setting up a fine mechanical piece of equipment.