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Mystery Italian or Just an Old Olmo.. ?

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Mystery Italian or Just an Old Olmo.. ?

Old 05-22-19, 02:31 PM
  #1  
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Mystery Italian or Just an Old Olmo.. ?

I have been aware of this bike for some time, now. As I recall, it was fitted with Universal brakes when I first saw the bike. Twenty seven inch steel wheels and can't really remember much else. The present owner bought it from the original owner in 1968. The bike sported most of its original components then but had already been painted black.

The bike, thanks to the seat clamp collar, screams Olmo and I do see other Olmo bikes that look similar, with one exception, so far. The rear drop sports an integrated derailleur hanger but not one that I am familiar with.

Some help to identify this bike would be a great help. Sorry for the old phone that needs to be replaced pictures, but they are all that I have, at the moment...



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Old 05-23-19, 06:59 PM
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-----

Hello Randy,

Frame -

lugset is Agrati "AMERICA"

upper head lug is item nr. 007.8505

lower head lug is item nr. 086.8053

seat lug is item nr. 086.8569

fork crown is item nr. 000.8528

dropouts are marked Campagnolo and are Sport model item 1010/1

the left is item nr. 310 and the right item nr. 311

fork ends, if present, are item nr. 312

if not marked Campag they will be Agrati item nr. 000.810




bottom bracket shell not shown in images

if it is plain, no notches/curves, then it is part of the Agrati "AMERICA" ensemble and is item nr. 022.8507

---

headset is Way-Assauto and is one of the very few original fittings present

---

into the 1960's Olmo was placing the serial on the backside of the seat lug in the format LNNN (letter number number number)

if you see the bicycle again you could check there

---

have sent email to Peter B to invite him to share his expertise

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Old 05-23-19, 07:23 PM
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@juvela...

Thanks and the bike does have the Campy Sport drops, as I recall. Kinda threw me at first. I will check for the serial number next time I see the bike.
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Old 05-24-19, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_B View Post
Olmo did not attach the seat stays to the seat lug in that manner. See Olmo Serial Number Dating Registry
-----

Hello Peter,

Thanks very much for your post.

Slightly surprised by your statement as me dull olde "braine" seemed to recall seeing Olmo cycles with bullet seat stays.

Went a-gandering for a few minutes and turned up some examples.

---





---

[this machine wears a head transfer reading "SPRINT" and has Olmo downtube, seattube & fork blade transfers - SPRINT perhaps the house brand for a retailer]







---


---



---

found this example of the greatest interest as it wears the same ends and crown as our subject cycle -





cycle is discussed here with further images provided -

https://www.fixedforum.it/forum/topi...i-60-completa/

---

Reckon one might posit that all of these machines are contract builds done for Olmo by someone else. Even it this the case at least there are nominal Olmo bicycles with bullet seat stays.

Wagering me lira that Randy's find a genuine Peppino.

-----

Last edited by juvela; 05-24-19 at 02:03 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-24-19, 01:40 PM
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The only way to know for sure is to ride it! If the bike rides so wonderfully that it makes you want to push yourself to the point of agony -- the Olmo agony -- then it has to be an Olmo. It's common sense.
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Old 05-24-19, 06:34 PM
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Wagering me lira that Randy's find a genuine Peppino.
Well, it seems to be "just an old Olmo", which is good and, perhaps a real Peppino (not sure what that is) but better than "just old".

Now I have to decide what to do cause I have grossly exceeded storage capacity and still have projects piling up.
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Old 05-24-19, 06:48 PM
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When I look at pictures of this bicycle...


...I think that, at the moment, I have everything I need to put the bicycle back to original fitted components. Paint and art are kinda beyond my reach these days. Anyway, this is proving to be something of interest. It just comes at a really bad time.

And, my memory is not what it used to be, I think (can't remember) but I might be wrong about the Campy drops. Gotta get over to my friend's house and have another look for serial number and other pertinent details.
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Old 05-24-19, 06:48 PM
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-----

Peppino is the diminutive form of Giuseppe

Giuseppe was Sig. Olmo's first name

---

Orange bike mentioned in Randy post above is very much a midliner - a one up from the bottom sort of model. The Campag chainset is an upgrade.

-----

Last edited by juvela; 05-24-19 at 06:54 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-19-20, 02:43 PM
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I started this thread a year or so ago. I had all but given up on buying this old Olmo, if that is what it really is. Anyway, I was responding to another thread, two or three hours ago, and the phone rings. The caller told me that he had an old Olmo and that I could have it for free. He gave me the bike in this thread.

Here is the bike with all of its upgraded stuff "as found" an hour, or so, ago...


The bike came with a nice wheel set. Shimano 105 hubs, seven speed cog set, and Campy rims...




Campy drops, front and back...


The only thing that suggests what make of bike this one is...


This little Huret derailleur cable reel might prove helpful in identifying age and model.




I still cannot find a serial number. Will have a more thorough look tomorrow. time permitting;
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Old 05-19-20, 04:55 PM
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Nice project!
I'm surprised to see the "Huret" cap on the rear derailleur cable pulley on the bottom of the down tube.
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Old 05-20-20, 06:09 AM
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Nice project!
I'm surprised to see the "Huret" cap on the rear derailleur cable pulley on the bottom of the down tube.
Brent
I can't say that this old Italian bicycle will ever become a project for me. Replacing all of the missing period correct stuff would drive the cost to street restore way past the cost effective point. Put another way, I can't afford to start from a bare frame/fork set anymore. Since I sold most of my stash, I have to start with complete or near complete bicycles.

As for the Huret cap = I wondered myself but, as is already evident, just about everything has been changed out on this old bike. The only things that I see worth tucking away would be the wheel set (presently destined for temporary fit to my early sixties Torpado Pro - now there's a project I look forward to) and, perhaps the head set. Other than that, just stuff taking up room.
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Old 05-30-20, 05:59 PM
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Finally found some time, steeled away from my mandatory daily focus on procrastination. Anyway, still trying to figure out what this old bike is. Italian, for sure, but what make and model? Vintage, from what I know about the bike before it was upgraded, should be mid to late fifties. Anyway, the frame and fork with hopes of learning a bit more...








This seat stay brace looks entry level to me. Any comments appreciated...


Correct bolt long gone...


Entry level Campy drops, front and back...


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Old 06-24-20, 05:44 PM
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Ok, how about an update to this thread. Randy graciously turned over ownership of this old frame to me, but I cant say the mystery has been solved - and it may never get solved at this point. Iíve stripped the frame down to bare metal. In the process, I did uncover the original silver paint with red pinstriped lugs. The frame is in very good shape and has no apparent damage, no dings, nicks, gouges, nothing.

So at this point I think we have established that it isnít a rare old racing model, and if it was an Olmo then it may have been a branded bike or a white label for another company. With that established, this bike will become something of a tribute bike. I have a 1982 Ross with lightly used but fairly good components that I am going to swap over to this frame. Being early 80ís components, this old bike will be treated like someone tried to Ďupgradeí it in the early 80ís with new paint, period correct decals and components. So think of it as a retro restoration tribute bike - if that makes sense.

Now I just need to figure out what color.





Primered and waiting for paint

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Old 06-27-20, 02:35 PM
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-----

thanks very much for this update

fine work!

when you got down to the original finish were you able to see any trace of the transfers or perhaps a silouette/ghost image left thereby?

shall look forward to following along

---

all best to Herr Doktor Ferdinand

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Old 06-28-20, 06:05 AM
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I was looking closely but did not see any remnants of decals or even an outline.



The good doctor says hello

Last edited by Dion912; 06-28-20 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 06-28-20, 06:39 AM
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I missed this thread back when Randy started it, but this frame touches one of my current warm spots - old steel roadie, undefined tubing, decent build/brazing, long wheel base, thin rear stays and fork blades with a tight fork bend, and a laid-back seat tube. This should be a very comfortable ride!

And I learned that the steel headset on my old Cicli Rossignolo, all parts 1970 or sometimes earlier, was probably a Way-Assauto!.
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Old 06-28-20, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I missed this thread back when Randy started it, but this frame touches one of my current warm spots - old steel roadie, undefined tubing, decent build/brazing, long wheel base, thin rear stays and fork blades with a tight fork bend, and a laid-back seat tube. This should be a very comfortable ride!

And I learned that the steel headset on my old Cicli Rossignolo, all parts 1970 or sometimes earlier, was probably a Way-Assauto!.
i think you are correct on the headset. Thanks for the comments!

a day after paint. As you can tell, I like color....




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Old 06-28-20, 10:05 AM
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-----

You had better be careful there!

Doing such fine work may cause nostro Don Randolfo to wish the frameset back.

Are you comtemplating fitment of Olmo transfers?

Forgot to ask earlier -

When you had things down to bare metal did you discover any additional markings? Were there any on steerer for example?

Very minor build note -

Tullio offered adjusters for these dropouts. They are part nr. 128/1 -




alternately, you could employ the similar ftting from Freres Huret or Juy, both of which were likely produced by ALGI.

-----
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Old 06-28-20, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

You had better be careful there!

Doing such fine work may cause nostro Don Randolfo to wish the frameset back.

Are you comtemplating fitment of Olmo transfers?

Forgot to ask earlier -

When you had things down to bare metal did you discover any additional markings? Were there any on steerer for example?

Very minor build note -

Tullio offered adjusters for these dropouts. They are part nr. 128/1 -




alternately, you could employ the similar ftting from Freres Huret or Juy, both of which were likely produced by ALGI.

-----
Thank you for the additional information. You are a treasure of info for sure. Honestly I go back-and-forth with what I want to do with this frame. I would love to try to restore it too period correct Components, but at this point Iím not sure what that really was. To answer your question, I went over this bare frame with a fine tooth comb and there was not another number or letter anywhere on the frame. No patched rivet holes for a head badge, no numbers on the bottom bracket, and nothing else around the base of the seat tube.

thatís why I am thinking about doing the retro restoration tribute bike to bring it up to early 80s status and just use the parts I already have from the Ross mentioned earlier. I would love to go back to late 50s or early 60s campy components, but I also donít want to go broke restoring a mystery bike. Would love additional thoughts around that, but it doesnít feel like I am messing with a piece of history at this point.

Now the pretty little German car in the previous picture is all original right down to the original spare tire Still in the front trunk. That car is a survivor through and through and will only receive original equipment parts.
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Old 06-28-20, 08:05 PM
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-----

Nothing remotely off-base with your thought processes here!

Am sure you have plenty more of Monsieur Poirot's "leetle grey cells" than meself possesseth.

I would suggest to keep open the idea of some sort of vintage build which is "period plausible."

Many of the fittings for such are sure to be snoozing in members' parts bins awaiting appropriate use.

ebay values are fun for entertainment purposes and levity but for the most part not very "real world."

Here is one possible "road ensemble" for the bicycle which glided in from the aether -

since frame is Italian and fitted with Campag ends it is reasonable to think of it coming with a Campag gear ensemble. one idea would be a Sportman rear mech paired with a Gran Sport front mech and Gran Sport levers. the Sportman theme could be continued by using Campag Sportman hubs. a fun companion chainset would be the Campag Sport. several headsets would be plausible such as Campag Gran Sport, Way-Assauto or a Magistroni. for a stem & bar set an obvious choice would be Ambrosio. if you wanted to go all alloy you could fit an I-beam stem and companion alloy bar. more interesting would be to fit an Ambrosio steel stem with alloy bar. NITOR would be a natural pillar choice. for brakes would go with Balilla, either sidepull or centrepull just so long as the Corsa 61 lever with all-metal QR was part of the set. if you wished to keep things all Italian you would likely want some Sheffield or Wa pedals. an alternate might be the Lyotard Berthet. clips and straps could be Balilla, Cornez or Allara (AL-E).

would think that all or most of these bits are currently reposing in member parts boxes. when you explain your project to fellow members and why you wish to employ a particular fitting its delightlfully surprising how quickly it can make an appearance...

if any of the bits mentioned are unfamiliar to you they are all illustrated at VB.

-----

Last edited by juvela; 06-28-20 at 08:44 PM. Reason: spellin'
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Old 06-28-20, 08:18 PM
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Juvela, you are greatly contributing to my grey matter. This whole vintage bike thing is somewhat new to me so everything you said is valuable info that I will spend some calories researching. And yes, I am going to add a repro set of decals, but I need to nail down the era first!
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Old 06-29-20, 05:02 AM
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Don Randolfo
I love this! Perhaps it is time to retire the randyjawa person and let Don Randolfo join the movement.

I recall, years ago, that I mentioned that Grand Bois, in French Canadain, means "big wood". A forum member liked that so much that he changed his forum id. Anyway, gonna think about it for a bit...
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Old 06-29-20, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dion912 View Post
I was looking closely but did not see any remnants of decals or even an outline.



The good doctor says hello
Lovely!! Are you in Porsche Club of America? I'm not well versed but I think that's a 66-68 911? Also the red car reflected in the hubcap suggests a later 2000's to 2010's Porsche as well given the spoke pattern?
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Old 06-29-20, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mech986 View Post
Lovely!! Are you in Porsche Club of America? I'm not well versed but I think that's a 66-68 911? Also the red car reflected in the hubcap suggests a later 2000's to 2010's Porsche as well given the spoke pattern?
Yes, I've been a PCA member for almost 30 years and a lot of old Porsches. This one is a 1968 912 survivor car. The reflection in the hubcap is my Son's 2012 Mustang (but it wishes it was a Porsche).
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Old 06-29-20, 09:49 AM
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I know it's not completely period correct, but would anyone balk at fitting this frame with a Nuovo Gran Sport setup? Those seem to be readily available, it is Campy after all, they have the vintage look and feel similar to the original Gran Sport, but better function than the earlier stuff. I do plan on riding this bike as it will be my primary "In Real Life" bicycle. My carbon bike has been relegated to the Zwift trainer. LOL
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