HiYoSilver

Question for regular riders. Are the LED headlights equal to a 20w halogen and a 10w halogen dual light setup?

Thanks

ax0n

Sure, if you get the DiNotte XLS 600 Dual, which costs as much as a brand new entry-level road bike.

Longevity as far as burning out? LED is the winner.
Battery Life? LED wins again.

Most brightness on a density/weight scale? HID wins.

Bang for the buck? Sorry, Halogen still is the winner.

cyccommute 

One thing you forgot is upgradeability of the halogens. The light output of halogens can be increased by increasing the voltage fed into the lamp. Can't do that with LED nor HID. Feed the lamp 20% more voltage and you'll double the output. A 20W bulb at 12 V puts out 400 lumen (not bad for a $3 bulb). Push it to 14.4V and you'll get over 700. That's more then an HID will give you for a fraction of the price.

ax0n

True that. Plus, when I wanted more light out of my 10W NiteRider without a lot of hassle or messing with batteries, I just went to my LBS and dropped $7 on a 15W replacement bulb... and cut my runtime by 30%

Regardless what you say, it all adds up to halogen being the best bang for the buck, hands down. But they can out-do HID if you're willing to DIY.

Cyclaholic

There's nothing wrong with the halogen option, but for a little bit more $$ than my previous 20w halogen setup I built an LED light based on 3 x 3w Cree XR-E LEDs and a 12v 'buck puck' driver. Same level of DIY complexity, i.e. if you can homebrew a halogen you can also homebrew an LED light. The motivator for me was that I require at least 3 hours daily runtime in winter so battery weight & cost was sufficient reason to go with the LED option.

The difference is that it draws 1/2 the current for the same lumens but the light appears brighter because a higher percentage is concentrated around the frequency where human nocturnal vision is most sensitive, and it doesn't plummet in efficiency as the battery voltage starts to drop the way a halogen does, in fact the LED increases in efficiency (lumens/watt) as voltage decreases.

It all adds up to a brighter light on 1/2 the battery size for the same runtime. Of course the light costs a bit more (partially offset by the smaller battery), but still very economical compared to any commercially available unit of equivalent performance. In my opinion the LED is a 100% feasible alternative to halogen for DIY lights if you just want greater performance. If you went with a more exotic battery option than my SLA housebrick, like lithium ion polymer for example, then the cost difference in the battery alone would definitely cover the higher cost of the LED.

HiYoSilver

Dual is $360 and only has 160 lumens, 15-20watt halogen equivalent.

Thus if this is the best, I'd need 2 dual's and that'd be $720, so why not get a lupine?

Cyclist0383

Huh? The dual mentioned is $750.00 and has 1200 lumens. https://store.dinottelighting.com/sha...&RowID=23&All=

There is another 'dual' which is $349.00 and produces 400 lumens. https://store.dinottelighting.com/sha...unt2=336600899

Bekologist

Niterider Trinewt is close to 500 lumens, 350 bucks.

This year the LED systems are getting good, expect most excellent LED systems for 2009.

I just rode home with a Minewt X2 set on strobe, it was like being at the disco! Woot Woot! downtown Seattle, it was strobing up a four lane street, one side to the other, two blocks ahead of me as I cruised the middle lanes at the speed of traffic.

slvoid

I'm sorry, money aside, you're not going to find a halogen system that can match the USE Exposure enduro maxx with 3 LED bulbs.

3 hours run time at 720 lumens.
10 hours run time at 420 lumens.
The entire thing with internal battery is the same diameter and less than an inch longer than a standard HID lamp head and only weighs 235 grams (which is a hair over the head of most HID systems).

I wouldn't say LED's are equal to halogens, rather they far surpass them.

Choccy

I must admit that LEDs are getting there. I used a 12w + 20 halogen Lumicycle system and it was great when I got it. Now I have added 2 Fenix P1D LED torches which run on CR123A batteries and the power is amazing.

ax0n

So they fail miserably in the "bang for the buck" category.

Cyclaholic

The biggest cost with a halogen system is the battery. A high efficiency + high power LED like the XR-E gives you at least double the efficiency of halogen for the same lumens requiring half the battery for the same runtime.

That makes the LED system very cost competitive if you need long run times between charges and use Li-ion or Li-po because of the savings in the cost of the battery. You also save a little $$ with the LED's longer bulb life.

sherpa93

I keep telling folks to just make your own This isnt rocket surgery and its not like LEDs are all hidden away in a vault. You need: 1.) A 1amp driver $20-30 if you cant make your own. buck puck. taskled bflex etc.. 2.) 2 Cree XR-E P4-Q5 WC tint- bright white or WG WH tint- less white $18 3.) switch 4.) copper pcb 5.) optics $6 Cree 8 deg in this one 6.) Host. Cheap Yong Li Chinese cateye in this case. 7.) Some common sense not to spend $300 on a $50 light... keep experimenting you will succeed and you WILL LIKE IT. Its an awesome amount of light. This light is 500mah to each led. Around 3.5hrs duration 4AA cells 200 lumen. Give the extra cash to the orphanage

n4zou

If you want unlimited run time on your lights LED is the only reliable option with a bicycle dynamo. A 1-watt LED with matching Fraen elliptical optics provides much more light than those 5-watt halogen systems. Granted, not as much light as 20-watt and higher systems but you never need to worry about your batteries going dead. You can even run without batteries at all if you don’t mind your lights going out when your stopped. Just add Blinkies to take care of that. Here is a photo of my headlight with Fraen elliptical optics.

No wasted light as you would have with flood type halogen bulbs and reflectors.
Here is the circuit I use.

My batteries are recharged at the suggested slow rate of 120mA when LED's are on. If I am not riding in slow traffic of less than 8 MPH and not stopping very much I much I must remember to disengage the dynamo 15 minutes for every hour of riding above 8 MPH to prevent overcharging the NiMH batteries.

Industrial

Fail miserably when their light output and runtimes are equal to only HIDs of equal price? I'd say halogens are okay if you're on a shoe-string budget and need alot of light(to see light, not to be seen light) with low runtime requirements or no care of added weight.

$320 for a 600L seems like a great deal to me especially when you factor in 2 batteries and all the mounts it comes with. A few years ago you had to pony up $400+ bucks for a heavy HID light to get anything close to the light output and runtime (600 lumens and 3hr runtime).

I get about 1000 lumens of LED light from my 600L and modded duel minewts for night mtb rides for around $550. That ain't bad considering my night rides go for at least 2 hours.

You can buy 100-200 lumen LED flashlights for around $50 for people on a budget. There are no bike lights aimed directly at the low price market but alot of people just use these flashlights.

Yeah LEDs are ready for prime time.

vik 

Your post assumes you don't value your time very much. It took me all of 5 mins to order a Dinotte light this weekend at a cost of $100. It will probably take me another 15 mins to unpack and install it on my bike. Building my own DIY light would take me hours to figure out what I need, order the materials, buy the tools/supplies and then to build it. It would probably cost more than $100 when you factor in the tools/supplies although they would be available for future projects.

I value my free time at upwards of $100/hr so making a light isn't a good deal for me. If you have the skills, tools and the interest in building your own light I can see how it would be a great project, but don't assume those of us that don't aren't using our common sense.

Everything in life isn't one size fits all.

freako

160 lumens is not equivalent to 15 to 20 watts halogen, this is just sales BS; 160 Lumens is closer to 10 to 12 watts. I have 230 lumen LED flashlight and it's almost as bright as my 16 watt Cygolite without the broadness to the beam that the Cygolite has.

ceridwen

My MiNewt X2 dual ($195 shipped with a 20% off coupon at REI) on low is equivalent to my previous 10W Halogen ($30 on a super clearance sale at Performance 2 years ago), including the spread of the beam. It was more expensive but it's also about 1/3 the weight and for the same brightness lasts twice as long. On high, it's equivalent to a dual 10W halogen setup, with either the same run time and 1/6th the weight, or twice the run time and 1/3 the weight (depending if I was using a second 10W halogen system or a single battery 2 headed 10W system).

Whether it's worth the extra money will always be up to the person using the light. For me personally, this was the first year that the advantages became worth the extra price. For other people we may still be a year or two away from that with LED technology.

I'd say for a large number of users, especially those who use their lights often, current gen LEDs are a great option with a reasonable cost/performance ratio.

KnhoJ

The only reason led lights are expensive is the gee whiz surcharge, and that won't last. Even the flashlights producers are already leaning their margins! I recently made my own housings for component xr-e's, and I'm kicking myself for not just buying a couple of the $50 flashlights.

The prices for bike led's will drop, and when they do, there's no other way to make commercially produced lights with as much output per dollar or per pound when batteries are included. It'll happen just as soon as Cateye, Dinotte, etc., decide to get competitive and either cut back the introductory sky high margins to competitive levels, or figure out why their overwhelmingly biggest expense is sunk into design and cnc millwork to make a simple freakin' led holder. (coughdinottecough) In the meantime, I guess we're stuck with 150-200 lumen, two AA flashlights for fifty bucks. It could be worse.

Sir Bikesalot

+1. An over-volted 12V 20W MR11 will make 700+ lumens.

Zero_Enigma

To the OP of the thread. If you just put cosmetics aside you can build a simple on/off LED light with the LED's on an aluminum plate, glue a old computer heatsink to the back (or buy one cheap ~$3 @ RadioShack), www.dealextreme.com is your friend. for cheap LED drivers at 800mA (80%) that cost $7 and you get 4 in a package and each driver can power 2 LED's. At the same place at DX you can get the Cree Q5 or Seoul SSC P4 U-bin LED. Add a on/off switch and you're set. This is very basic on/off at 80% high light. What Sherpa mentioned for the driver gives 100% light (1A).

Hot glue and you're set. Or get crazy with the silicone (clear) and seal everything with silicone and ride it as such. Granted a housing looks cooler but you can always make that later. SOmething about the ghetto build look amazes people when they see this ball of uber light blowing out the front then see the ghetto setup at the back they seem very impresssed by the light and the DIY setup. Well at least that's the experience I've gotten with one impressed driver.

Lamplight

The halogen light I made for my nasty-weather bike is 40 watts total, runs hours longer than I'll ever need, and makes my very dark commute seem like daytime. Yes, it adds 10-15+ pounds to the weight of my bike, but who's snivelling over a dozen extra pounds or so?

Cyclaholic

What would you have been otherwise doing with the time you could spend on a DIY project? what hourly rate does that activity net you?

If you would have been sitting in front of the tv, out riding your bike, or any number of recreational activities that don't earn you any money then in dollar terms that time is worth zero to you. However, by investing that zero-earning time into a DIY project that saves you the cost difference between the light you build and the equivalent performing light you buy then you could associate the savings to the time you spent on a $/hr basis (assuming it was cheaper to build than to just buy).

It may or may not be the equivalent of $100/hr but it will be something greater than the $0/hr you would have earned otherwise. this nonsense of "I value my free time at upwards of $100/hr " only exists in your head, not in your net worth.

SSP

Nope...time has value, regardless of whether it's earning income.

I could "do it myself" with many projects - plumbing, auto repairs, landscaping, roofing, etc., etc.

But, I'd rather be ridin' my bikes, or posting on BF, or chasin' fast women.

specialist

check out https://www.ayup.com.au/ and https://www.nightlightning.co.nz/endurenz%20details.htm