rubiksoval

That's not serious training, that's a methodology of training. One that's simply not useful for the majority of people, nor followed by hardly anyone, period.

As I've said numerous, numerous times, there's a reason hardly anyone actually does that type of training. It just isn't as efficient for nearly everyone not riding 15+ hours a week. And those that it would work for are likely so talented that anything would work.

gregf83 

These guys https://www.strava.com/activities/3811732887 need a new coach. Typical training ride getting ready for race season. The Strava ride is worth looking at for the scenery but also note that every climb was done right in the middle of zone 2 solid SST territory. All of those guys are riding well at the moment.

Carbonfiberboy 

Well yes of course. That's a totally proven training method and exactly what I've done for the past 20 years, and got decently fast doing it, for my age that is. But this year, I'm going to experiment and go polarized, now that I understand it better. I'll let y'all know next July if I'm still the fastest geezer around. This was a horrible summer for me, couldn't ride at all, zero, since March. Then sciatica so bad I could hardly walk. But exercise helps a lot. Just got back from a 10-day backpack with my wife in the Glacier Peak Wilderness. HR in zone 1 the whole way, legs hurting like the devil. It's interesting, like doing 1000 relatively light 1-legged quarter squats/day, one per out breath. We've been hiking and backpacking together for 45 years but are not getting younger, dammit. I've now ridden 3 zone 1 roller rides, woooopeee. Butt hurts. Hope the saddle sore isn't coming back. You see what I'm getting at: massive base is now required.

Carbonfiberboy 

Efficient w/r to time, certainly not. There's a reason CTS' time-crunched routines are what they are. Results in the long term might be another matter. I hope to find out by next July. Pity that one can't do the hard group ride, my first love, with PT. Maybe I'll start a LD zone 1 group next year. Or not, Group rides with no beer at the end aren't much fun.

rubiksoval

CTS is ****.

Next July isn't really long term.

It seems the epitome of silliness to forgo something you enjoy to try a methodology that has little to no real-world application. That'd be quite sad.

Carbonfiberboy 

IIRC, you got me interested in this in the first place. A while back, when I was having trouble establishing a credible FTP, I believe you opined that my issue was that too much of my power throughout what is supposed to be my aerobic range, has been coming from my anaerobic system. This is a problem which seems to afflict many endurance athletes after a number of years, causing them to stagnate. That's the problem which Seiler is attempting to address. He advocates very high volume, i.e. "ride lots" which of course can only be done by keeping intensity down, down below the onset of anaerobic energy usage, and hence a possible solution to my problem.

My understanding is that by keeping long term effort, say for 1-3 hours, below the level at which HR drift at steady power begins to occur, one is minimizing anaerobic system participation, and thus lactate accumulation. Do you think this is correct? IOW, no HR drift is how one knows one's effort is really zone 1, regardless of percentages of whatever. I would expect that power level limit to very gradually increase. Correct? Seiler was bragging that he can now do 2 hour zone 1 trainer rides at steady power with zero HR drift and now he's shooting for 3 hours. Of course he's still just a kid at 53.

rubiksoval

I don't think so. That doesn't sound like a comment I'd make.

There's pretty much nothing about that methodology that I think is useful or practical.