Hudson308 

I'm building a custom 70's 15-speed roadie and I'm wondering if the Shimano tri-color derailleurs from my spares stash would work on it. This one will have a 53-43-33 triple up front and a huge 14/32 (5-gear) freewheel. Can I swap a long cage onto my RD-6401? If so, what parts do I need?

jimmuller 

I have no idea but I wish I had one of those to try for myself with a 34T. Let us know what you find.

RobbieTunes

You may be able to make a 105 (1055) long cage work on that. I definitely do not know.

top506

Your long cage is in the mail at last; you should have it for the weekend.

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jimmuller 

Thank you!

Now when my shipment of free minutes comes in I might be able to finish this bike. I ordered it three months ago from Minutes-R-Us, order 60 free minutes get another 15 minutes free. IIRC, Fedex handles time-content packages as a special case but with no tracking number.

Barrettscv 

I'll soon be using a Shimano 600 6207 GS like this: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...207_GS%29.html

The Shimano 600 6207 GS will take a 32t cog easily. It's not a SIS deraileur, but I'm going to try to use it with an 8-speed SIS indexing downtube shifter. It should be installed by July 10.

I'm using a Deore XT Rear Derailleur RD-M735 on my Trek. This takes a 32t easily and is SIS;

T-Mar

Theoretically, you can transplant cages of the same era, as the critical cage attachment dimensions are the same. See attached picture of a Deore XT cage that I grafted onto a 600 Ultegra body. However, you will not necessarily gain all the extra capacity. While you will gain chain wrap capacity, you will almost certainly not gain maximum cog capacity. I didn't. This is because the geometry of the bodies for the long cage derailleurs are different. By using the same body, you not affecting the ratio of downwards to inwards cage travel and therefore the maximum cog capacity will not increase. The only way the graft would cause extra cog capacity is if the cage geomtery were different (i.e. position of the upper pulley relative to the cage pivot), and this is not significantly different, at least in my case. Of course, you can gain the some extra capacity by playing with the B-spring adjustment and wheel position in the dropout dropout, but at the expense of shifting performance. The only reason to graft a long cage is to gain the extra chain wrap capacity to permit installation of wider ratio chainrings.

spacemanz

I think I have the non-GS short-caged version of that in the basement. It has extreme road rash, but I got some cool anodized pulleys on it, so it was still worth grabbing.

Hudson308 

Thanks for the responses, guys; sounds like this graft wouldn't be worth the trouble. I'm using friction shifters on this build, so I might try to find a 6207 GS. Let me know how the build turns out. Do any of you guys have a favorite claw adapter?

P.S. - I've got some extra free minutes on my cell phone, but the packaging required would make shipment impractical. I'd be ok with local pickup, though.

top506

One that goes under the radar is the Exage 500 CX/LX, basically a Deore LX with different graphics. I've run all three on road triples and mountian bikes and there isn't a dime's worth of difference.

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Bianchigirll 

IIRC in the 'Tri-Color' era the few triple bikes built around 600 used a Deore or Deore XT RD. RX100 may have been the first "sport" long cage when it came out around '92 with the 105 following a few years later.

I would hunt down an older good condition XT and be done with it.

Also I don't know if your ever tried to replace a cage on a Rd but that spring is a real pain to try and retension.

RobbieTunes

IF you find it after it rolls under the car.

Hudson308 

Lol thanks everyone for the valuable info. I've got alot to learn, but that process will be alot easier with the help I get here!

jimmuller 

One day, probably in the next life, I would really like to understand Shimano's terminology. The Tri-Color built around the 600 used a Deore or XT RD, or maybe an RX100 which came out with the 105, except that the older XT would be preferable maybe, if you don't use an Exage or Ultegra or 7400 or 6500 or 6501 which is presumably one better than the 6500, so where does the 500 of anything fit if it is 305 better than the 105, or should that 7200, I lost count. Velobase doesn't help. I just can't speak that language.

How many Shimano employees does it take to invent a new name? It's unknown, they haven't stopped yet.

Oh, and I forgot the deerhead and the arrowhead and the Arabesque, not to mention the 600 and the Dura Ace.

frantik

sadly i think i understood almost all of that

exage 500 is better than exage 300, but 105 is better than all of them

T-Mar

With all due respect, it takes less than 5 minutes to swap cages between two Shimano derailleurs of this vintage.

T-Mar

Don't blame Shimano, blame the American bicycle distributors and, by extension, the American consumer. During the early 1970s bicycle boom the average American consumer couldn't tell the difference between a Peugeot U0-8 and PX10. For that matter, most still can't. They were confused by the fact that several models within a line could carry the same component (or what appeared to be the same component) and that there was such a myriad of component manfacturers represented on one bicycle. The distributors wanted a better method to differentitate between models and therefore make it easier to sell the product.

Shimano reacted to situation, unlike a lot of manufacturers. Thus began the proliferation of rear derailleur models and the development of groups. Of course, to make it easy to tell the difference, you had to have a big model name emblazoned on it. Basically, it got to the point where you had a group for almost every single model (i.e. price point) in a model range, so the consumer could tell difference. If the consumer could tell the difference, they could justify the price differential and just may step up to the higher priced (i.e larger profit margin ) model.

Of course, you also have to make things noticeable when things changed, so the consumer knows that there is a newer, better version. Consequently, each successive generation got a new name. 600 begat 600EX, which begat 600AX. which begat New 600EX, which begat 600 Ultegra, which begat Ultegra and so on.

Shimano's reaction to the consumers' confusion is part of the reason that they became the dominant component manufacturer. Give the consumer what they superficially want and they will buy. Most European companies reacted to late, if they reacted at all. Even into the 1980s, it was hard to tell one Simplex derailleur from another, at least for the average consumer. You still got Simplex derailleurs paired with Mafac brakes and Stronglight cranksets. It was too confusing and when a consumer is confused, he typically gravitates to and buys the simpler solution. Consequently, Shimano prospered and most of the Europeans faded away, with the notable exception of Camapgnolo. They survived on past reputation, but didn't really learn from the experience. They expanded the groups but it was still hard to tell them apart.

The American consumer likes to buy entities. Whether they're buying a car or blender, they don't want to have to been concerned about the quality of each individual componet to make sure they're getting good value. From this aspect bicycles are unique. All the individual parts are on display, subject to scrutiny and concern about their performance. Shimano's strategy of a different gorup at every price point allayed a lot of that concern, as everything matched and the consumer could tell that bicycle A was different from bicycle B, justifying the price difference. The approach simplified things and made the bicycle more of a entity than a mish-mash of apparently unrelated parts. Of course, the system approach also results in improved performance, as all the componets mesh for optimum performance. However, this was secondary to making the purchase decison and sale easier.

It may be hard to remember all the names and their hierarchy but it certainly is easier than picking up a 1990's Campagnolo equipped bicycle where you can't even identify the components or an earlier European model which appears to be a frankenbike. With Shimano you generally have a solid footing and the answer to the level and era can be found with only a few clicks of the mouse.

The Golden Boy 

A few months ago I was wondering EXACTLY the premise for this thread. Was there a 6400 series long cage derailleur that I could use for a triple, and since I'd never seen one- could I take an XT cage and mate it to a 6400 series body?

If I do go back to the idea that I had for my bike build, functionally and stylistically I think the MT-60 Deore would better match the 6400 Tri-Color components.

spacemanz

I think someone already mentioned the 1055 series, which is a perfect match on the paint, for the lighter sections of Tri-Color. The Tri-Color dual-pivots match the darker grey, so you can easily mix & match these parts. As far as long cage, I dunno right off if there ever was a 1055 long cage. Velobase knows. BTW, these are the RD 6401 (for 8-speed) and that RD-6207 I mentioned, along with the offending pulleys.

Bianchigirll 

maybe you have more patience than I do, and stronger thumbs.

T-Mar

This a very simple procedure, requiring less than normal thumb strength. I don't know what your technique is but you're obviously making things more complicated than they need to be.

oldskoolwrench

Look...

I know you like the looks and the 'gotcha' factor that a 600 Tri Color long cage derailleur would bring, and you'd be the center of attention at the next group ride and all, but maybe it's better to stick with something that's designed to do what you want, instead of creating some Cylon-Hybrid contraption that may or may not hold up in the long run.

It's not a sin to mix and match road and MTB components, you know.

spacemanz

Another good combo is XTR & Tri-Color. That XTR gray tends to change shades of gray at times, but they still look good (and work like a dream) together.

mudboy

Yeah, you can graft a Deore or XT GS or SS cage onto a tricolor rear derailleur without any problems. As it was the local (SE VA) fad to run that setup, I did dozens of such grafts/transplants as a shop mechanic. The geometry of the Tricolor RD kept the cage closer to the cogs, and the long cage wrapped more chain. I think 28t was about as large as we went in the back.

Pete

Popeyecahn

Thank you, this is what I was thinking while considering using an idle Ultegra RD-6500 GS with the 7sp 13-34 freewheel I just received. The 6500 will only handle a 28t from what I read and wondered what would be the limiting factor. You have ably pointed this out. On to finding an MTB rear der... Oh snap the Fisher has a clean one from 1988!