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Underweight???

Old 11-25-20, 11:59 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
At 165 lbs, you will indeed be more efficient and faster climbing seated according to studies on the subject.

I doubt you stand long enough though to hurt your knees (not advisable at your weight). I do it continuously for more than 10 minutes to be "punchy" when passing other cyclists in climbs in denser vehicular traffic. Standing will also "signal" other motorists and other cyclists to give you more space so might be safer.

I actually gain speed when I get out of the saddle in climbs. I shift up 2 to 3 cogs while keeping my out of the saddle cadence above 70 rpm. Many cyclists will drop down to 40 rpm where they lose speed but because 40 rpm is also "easy" when out of the saddle
This is all a bit humorous. You're the OP. You asked a question. You got a unanimous answer. So what's the problem? You think you'll convince the world that we're all overweight, all evidence to the contrary?

You have all this pain because you're underweight. No one here can relate to that problem because we're not, and we don't experience that. Even on a tough 200k+ ride with serious climbing, I'm not in pain, not really. If I'm ever in pain, hiking or on the bike, it's because my diet is too low in protein and my muscles aren't repairing fast enough. You probably don't eat enough, whatever your diet is.

Oh- and no one climbs at 40 cadence unless they're riding fixed or SS. And there's no way climbing out of the saddle is going to hurt anyone's knees around here. It's funny, really. How 'bout doing 3000' on foot, with a 55 lb. pack? Didn't hurt my knees at all, even though I was really out of shape. Nor did the descent 9 days later. Why? Because my wife and I joined a gym in 1979, the year we went set-netting for salmon in Bristol Bay, a young man's game for which we were already too old. We made money though and lived through it. Life has challenges. They are best met if one is in good physical condition. Your hands, arms, and core are weak and so probably are your legs. You need a lot of dumbbell work, which you can do at home, and which can also work core and legs. You should take the advice of the community elders gathered here.
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Old 11-25-20, 03:44 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
At 165 lbs

I doubt you stand long enough though to hurt your knees (not advisable at your weight).
Not advisable by whom ????, where did you read such nonsense ??.
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Old 11-25-20, 09:23 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Not advisable by whom ????, where did you read such nonsense ??.
Last year I was squatting 220. In my late 50s, I sledded 720 1RM. Knees are good. Back in my 40's, I used to get sore knees from long descents, hiking. Fixed 'em with glucosamine sulfate. No problem since. I think the gym and riding helped, too.
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Old 11-25-20, 09:23 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Being light is good for managing heat. This is true. But you're a good 20 lbs away from being light.
tempted to...

It's all good now. Being 120 lbs did made a difference from 140 lbs in that aspect.

Less pain (where are you even getting pain from?) and less injury are very, very debatable.
Lower back and knees from pedaling out of the saddle for long periods over very bumpy roads.

Those problems are now gone! and then the wrists from the jarring ride of badly damaged roads. That problem is now gone too. My bike's geometry is setup for road racing with very low dropbar. And now, I'm quite comfortable on it and can ride it hard for hours without getting pain, soreness nor numbness anywhere.

I have also put double layer of tape in the handlebar drops (recycled tube as 1st layer) which may have contributed to solving my wrist pain issue. I don't wear gloves as a personal preference and with strong influence of the hot and humid local climate.
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Old 11-25-20, 09:36 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Not advisable by whom ????, where did you read such nonsense ??.
Some random articles nonsense from the internet.

GCN actual road test nonsense.

What I meant (in case I was misunderstood) is riding out of the saddle for long periods. Out of the saddle for long periods >60 seconds is the thing not advised for heavier riders and has something to do with their VO2max if I remembered correctly.

Otherwise, heavier riders can still pedal out of the saddle at intervals to stretch or for short bursts of increased power output.
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Old 11-25-20, 11:07 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
This is all a bit humorous. You're the OP. You asked a question. You got a unanimous answer. So what's the problem? You think you'll convince the world that we're all overweight, all evidence to the contrary?
hey, that's not my intention! It's the badly damaged roads here. Out of the saddle at high enough speed on that. The problems all went away when I became 120 lbs. Strange but that is my experience.

You have all this pain because you're underweight. No one here can relate to that problem because we're not, and we don't experience that. Even on a tough 200k+ ride with serious climbing, I'm not in pain, not really. If I'm ever in pain, hiking or on the bike, it's because my diet is too low in protein and my muscles aren't repairing fast enough. You probably don't eat enough, whatever your diet is.
No pain anymore which is why it's strange that it happened when I'm now lighter and my bike has aggressive racing setup.

Oh- and no one climbs at 40 cadence unless they're riding fixed or SS.
I used to grind that low out of the saddle and I have observed many riders on the road do the same thing also when out of the saddle. It's easy but it's slow. Even slower than sitted. But that is only possible in anything but steep gradients.

I have progressively increased my out of the saddle cadence as my aerobic fitness improved.

And there's no way climbing out of the saddle is going to hurt anyone's knees around here. It's funny, really. How 'bout doing 3000' on foot, with a 55 lb. pack? Didn't hurt my knees at all, even though I was really out of shape.
I've done a similar thing 8 years ago at 135 lbs weight (not physically active at that time), carrying 30 lbs. No pain either. It's a different situation to be sure than out of the saddle fast over bumpy roads.

Your hands, arms, and core are weak and so probably are your legs. You need a lot of dumbbell work, which you can do at home, and which can also work core and legs.
I'm no longer experiencing any pain even in difficult 20 minute continuous climbs within 2 hour rides.

You should take the advice of the community elders gathered here.
Earlier advices told it is still healthy for athletes to be underweight a little bit with examples given. That was the answer I'm looking for.

It's actually difficult for me to gain weight with the all the cycling time I'm putting in. Even if eating lots of meat (for protein) and carbs for energy. I'm eating 5 meals a day now!
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Old 11-25-20, 11:42 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
The point is, you being 120 lbs or 140 lbs or 160 lbs has nothing to do with climbing while standing hurting your knees or not.
The things I've read or watched about the subject is about VO2max or aerobic threshold, not on hurting the knees. And to me is about doing it for long periods which not advisable to heavier riders (will burn out quickly). Heavier riders can still pedal out of the saddle to stretch or to attack without burning out but only for shorter periods like under 60 seconds.

Long periods standing on very bumpy roads used to hurt my knees when I was a heavier. Not anymore with my current weight. I could have avoided knee pain even when I was heavier if I sat down entirely or limited out of the saddle only over smooth sections of the road which I used to do.

I have no idea what you're talking about with 40 rpm being easy, or why you think many cyclists do this. I've never seen a cyclist intentionally do this as a regular thing when climbing.
I used to do 6 minute climbs entirely out of the saddle at 40 rpm. But now I do it at 70 rpm (higher if the gradient levels off a bit). 70 rpm is faster but harder to sustain and really hits aerobic capacity. The cyclists I've seen who does it only for short periods except for those riding SS or fixie.

40 rpm is easy because I can stay at the optimum knee angle in a bigger portion of the pedal stroke because of the low cadence. You have to move the legs quick enough to get into the optimum angle long before you reach 6 o'clock of the downstroke. You still have to maintain a very light grip and weight on your arms to keep effort to a minimum. It's actually possible to recover using that technique. It's easy but at the cost of going slower.

Why I do it for long periods? It's great workout for upperbody and arms. Also great aerobic work out for me.

Last edited by cubewheels; 11-25-20 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 11-26-20, 04:26 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
Some random articles nonsense from the internet.

GCN actual road test nonsense.

What I meant (in case I was misunderstood) is riding out of the saddle for long periods. Out of the saddle for long periods >60 seconds is the thing not advised for heavier riders and has something to do with their VO2max if I remembered correctly.

Otherwise, heavier riders can still pedal out of the saddle at intervals to stretch or for short bursts of increased power output.
There is no evidence showing that standing up is a bad thing to do...Sure you may end up using more energy when standing up but other than that it has no negative effect on your body. I ride fixed gear and singlespeed bikes and I have no choice but to do a lot of my riding standing up. If I didn't stand up I would kill my knees trying to get up hills...I also do gravel rides and mountain bike rides on trails that are far rougher than the roads which you ride on and most of my trail rides are done standing up a lot., if I didn't stand up I wouldn't be able to ride through. The articles you read on GCN isn't an absolute and is to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Old 11-26-20, 05:56 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
There is no evidence showing that standing up is a bad thing to do...Sure you may end up using more energy when standing up but other than that it has no negative effect on your body. I ride fixed gear and singlespeed bikes and I have no choice but to do a lot of my riding standing up. If I didn't stand up I would kill my knees trying to get up hills...I also do gravel rides and mountain bike rides on trails that are far rougher than the roads which you ride on and most of my trail rides are done standing up a lot., if I didn't stand up I wouldn't be able to ride through. The articles you read on GCN isn't an absolute and is to be taken with a grain of salt.
The damaged section of our asphalt roads are bumpier than gravel roads. You ride MTB trails on MTB with soft wide tires and suspension so you're still saving your knees better.

Asphalt gets soft during summers and turned wavy, really bumpy by traffic. In a poor country, these never gets fixed, only gets worse through the years and they turn into like squarish speedbumps....And they are worse than potholes and even cobblestone pavement!

I run my tires at a higher pressure than is recommended for my weight (still less than max pressure) to avoid pinch flats when riding these roads at high speed. I've had pinch flats before from hitting these "natural" speedbumps. Obviously, the higher pressure for my weight gives harsher ride and actually slower when hitting choppy road.

Many local club roadies actually use hard tail MTBs which is a very smart choice around here. I use 35mm wide puncture resist road tires on my gravel bike with only 27 TPI so it's a bit slow but very tough tires for these roads.

Many of our short <100 km road races (that actually requires road bikes) takes place over good quality roads built by Americans (when we used to have long term American bases in this country).

Despite all these, I don't hurt my knees anymore since my weight stabilized at 120 lbs. Anyway, it wasn't really that bad when it did hurt when I was a bit heavier and it's probably my fault anyway for riding out of the saddle for long periods. I also do it a lot in the flats to zip around slower traffic during the rush hour.
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Old 11-26-20, 06:00 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
The things I've read or watched about the subject is about VO2max or aerobic threshold, not on hurting the knees. And to me is about doing it for long periods which not advisable to heavier riders (will burn out quickly). Heavier riders can still pedal out of the saddle to stretch or to attack without burning out but only for shorter periods like under 60 seconds.

Long periods standing on very bumpy roads used to hurt my knees when I was a heavier. Not anymore with my current weight. I could have avoided knee pain even when I was heavier if I sat down entirely or limited out of the saddle only over smooth sections of the road which I used to do.

So much no. That doesn't even remotely make sense.

Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
I used to do 6 minute climbs entirely out of the saddle at 40 rpm. But now I do it at 70 rpm (higher if the gradient levels off a bit). 70 rpm is faster but harder to sustain and really hits aerobic capacity. The cyclists I've seen who does it only for short periods except for those riding SS or fixie.

40 rpm is easy because I can stay at the optimum knee angle in a bigger portion of the pedal stroke because of the low cadence. You have to move the legs quick enough to get into the optimum angle long before you reach 6 o'clock of the downstroke. You still have to maintain a very light grip and weight on your arms to keep effort to a minimum. It's actually possible to recover using that technique. It's easy but at the cost of going slower.

Why I do it for long periods? It's great workout for upperbody and arms. Also great aerobic work out for me.
You did 6 minute climbs because you were so out of shape you couldn't do 70 rpm, or because you thought that was actually an effective way to train? The first is just an equipment issue, the second is, again, something entirely made up.

There isn't any point to riding at 40 rpm from a training perspective. It's certainly not a great aerobic workout; it's a muscular-tension/neuro-muscular workout (and again, a pretty pointless one at that). You can't generate the same power at that low rpms to stress your aerobic system the way you can at higher rpms.
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Old 11-26-20, 06:02 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
Despite all these, I don't hurt my knees anymore since my weight stabilized at 120 lbs. Anyway, it wasn't really that bad when it did hurt when I was a bit heavier and it's probably my fault anyway for riding out of the saddle for long periods. I also do it a lot in the flats to zip around slower traffic during the rush hour.
You do recognize the fact that people 140 lbs and 160 lbs and even more ride out of the saddle for long periods of time with zero knee issues, right?

You keep repeating your made up assertion that weight affects that. It doesn't.
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Old 11-26-20, 06:11 AM
  #37  
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I thought of Carbonfiberboy when reading this last week, because we've had similarly-themed discussions before. I've long been an advocate for eschewing "old-school training" of which I was prescribed when I started riding in the early 2000s and always questioned its efficacy. I feel I wasted inordinate amounts of training sessions doing such things and have never once done them again since I began training myself, instead focusing on actual aerobic training and seeing immense benefits from that. Anyway, sort of related to the topic of low-cadence riding.

Key takeaway:

In general, pedaling slowly only makes you better at one thing: pedaling slowly.


Second key takeaway:
Science suggests that there is no ideal cadence for cycling.

When you’re pedaling along, when your head gets lost in the clouds, and when you’re not even thinking about your cadence,
that is your ideal cadence. It works for you, and that’s all that matters.


Further discussion: If you are doing a ride in which terrain necessitates the ability to spend an amount of time pedaling at a lower rpm, then of course, preparing for that would be wise (steep, rough terrain; single-speed rides, etc). Otherwise, doing it for the sake of some additional training benefit is pretty much pointless.


https://www.velonews.com/training/do...ke-you-faster/
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Old 11-26-20, 07:26 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
You do recognize the fact that people 140 lbs and 160 lbs and even more ride out of the saddle for long periods of time with zero knee issues, right?

You keep repeating your made up assertion that weight affects that. It doesn't.
It did for me.

Perhaps, I'm simply born not to weigh more than 120 lbs. As you have said earlier, having a small frame which is true.

I guess that solves our dilemma.

Anyway, I've never seen anyone in person weighing over 160 lbs ride out of the saddle for long periods. I've seen some riding fixies and SS but remaining sitted when grinding uphill. Even for geared roadies going steep climbs 34 / 25 gear grinding seated, never standing up.

Only cyclists I've seen out of the saddle for long periods are lean ones, probably only a bit heavier than me and riding fixies / SS
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Old 11-26-20, 07:34 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Further discussion: If you are doing a ride in which terrain necessitates the ability to spend an amount of time pedaling at a lower rpm, then of course, preparing for that would be wise (steep, rough terrain; single-speed rides, etc). Otherwise, doing it for the sake of some additional training benefit is pretty much pointless.

https://www.velonews.com/training/do...ke-you-faster/
I don't do low rpms out of the saddle anymore. They actually do nothing for my aerobic fitness. It's easy going low rpm when out of the saddle but little workout value.

I've always been high rpm since I first rode on roadbike as a kid. However, standing is relatively new to me so I started low rpm but now I'm sustaining >70 rpm out of the saddle for long periods

Last edited by cubewheels; 11-26-20 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 11-26-20, 07:41 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
So much no. That doesn't even remotely make sense.



You did 6 minute climbs because you were so out of shape you couldn't do 70 rpm, or because you thought that was actually an effective way to train? The first is just an equipment issue, the second is, again, something entirely made up.

There isn't any point to riding at 40 rpm from a training perspective. It's certainly not a great aerobic workout; it's a muscular-tension/neuro-muscular workout (and again, a pretty pointless one at that). You can't generate the same power at that low rpms to stress your aerobic system the way you can at higher rpms.
I don't do it anymore. Read the 3rd paragraph of my post (#32).
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Old 11-26-20, 04:04 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
tempted to...

It's all good now. Being 120 lbs did made a difference from 140 lbs in that aspect.



Lower back and knees from pedaling out of the saddle for long periods over very bumpy roads.

Those problems are now gone! and then the wrists from the jarring ride of badly damaged roads. That problem is now gone too. My bike's geometry is setup for road racing with very low dropbar. And now, I'm quite comfortable on it and can ride it hard for hours without getting pain, soreness nor numbness anywhere.

I have also put double layer of tape in the handlebar drops (recycled tube as 1st layer) which may have contributed to solving my wrist pain issue. I don't wear gloves as a personal preference and with strong influence of the hot and humid local climate.
You should see a doctor. If you're getting pain that easily, there is something clearly wrong with you.
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Old 11-26-20, 05:24 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
You ride MTB trails on MTB with soft wide tires and suspension so you're still saving your knees better.
No, none of my mountain bikes have any suspension. I use my body as a suspension, my tires are only 2.35 inches wide. I can't go too low on the pressure or else I would be getting pinch flats when riding over rocks and tree roots.
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Old 11-26-20, 05:35 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
No, none of my mountain bikes have any suspension. I use my body as a suspension, my tires are only 2.35 inches wide. I can't go too low on the pressure or else I would be getting pinch flats when riding over rocks and tree roots.
I'll do you one better. I'm 155, I went for a run today. My knees feel fine.
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Old 11-26-20, 06:30 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post

I've seen some riding fixies and SS but remaining sitted when grinding uphill.
If those fixie and SS riders remain seated while climbing hills it's because the hills are very small, not real hills.
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Old 11-26-20, 06:38 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
You should see a doctor. If you're getting pain that easily, there is something clearly wrong with you.
I don't have pain in my knees since I went 120 lbs. I'm probably just not meant to be heavier due to small body frame.
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Old 11-26-20, 06:53 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
If those fixie and SS riders remain seated while climbing hills it's because the hills are very small, not real hills.
Yes, they still labor hard hard though, bobbing up and down. These guys don't really like to stand.

Fixies and SS who prefer to stand would just stand, even if they're simply just accelerating from a stop or corner or passing someone in the flats.
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