Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Training & Nutrition
Reload this Page >

3 hr ride without drinking nor eating safe?

Notices
Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

3 hr ride without drinking nor eating safe?

Old 01-15-21, 07:13 PM
  #101  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood View Post
I also do a lot of fasted riding, up to 200km rides

But I do drink water and supplement with salt liberally
That's impressive.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-15-21, 08:40 PM
  #102  
cruiserhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
by all means, continue with your 3 to 5 hour rides without water. good luck to you.
cruiserhead is offline  
Old 01-15-21, 11:13 PM
  #103  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
by all means, continue with your 3 to 5 hour rides without water. good luck to you.
Thanks.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-16-21, 06:27 AM
  #104  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,274

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2529 Post(s)
Liked 1,279 Times in 638 Posts
Originally Posted by burritos View Post
I don't think he thought it was beneficial. I think he thought like most, that it was a burden. But if it was such a burden, he should not have been able to perform/compete at the highest level. Cause at that level, any slight disadvantage should be fatal for the competition. And I'm not arguing that being dryfasted is a superior state. Definitely not for performance. But if you're strongly fat adapted, it's not the fatally burdensome state that people are making it out to be And while Robert Horry hit a few important 3's and was a great support player, he never sniffed the MVP.
It was 42 minutes of activity, and the majority of it was AFTER he stopped fasting.

Seriously, man. I can't tell if you're just trolling or you genuinely do not read and think about the examples you're posting. Every single one of them has nothing to do with what you're proposing. Even your own rides have nothing to do with what you're proposing.

There's a massive disconnect, here.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 01-16-21, 03:20 PM
  #105  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,168

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2862 Post(s)
Liked 258 Times in 171 Posts
I've had some 3 hour rides without water, didn't like it because after about 5 pounds (for me) of water loss my performance takes a hit and it feels horrible. Only a few times though because with the summers here in Georgia I could lose a lot more than that and be edging into dangerous territory.

The water loss doesn't just come from burning fat by the way. 35% of your water is intravascular - stored in your blood. When your body needs it quick for cooling, it takes it from there and that's where the performance hit comes from, your examples notwithstanding. It's also where the danger is. Thickening up the blood a little is no big deal. Happens all the time, totally normal. A lot, and you're taking big risks.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 01-16-21, 11:44 PM
  #106  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I've had some 3 hour rides without water, didn't like it because after about 5 pounds (for me) of water loss my performance takes a hit and it feels horrible. Only a few times though because with the summers here in Georgia I could lose a lot more than that and be edging into dangerous territory.

The water loss doesn't just come from burning fat by the way. 35% of your water is intravascular - stored in your blood. When your body needs it quick for cooling, it takes it from there and that's where the performance hit comes from, your examples notwithstanding. It's also where the danger is. Thickening up the blood a little is no big deal. Happens all the time, totally normal. A lot, and you're taking big risks.
Thanks for that. You may be right. I don't know for certain. A quick survey from a pubmed sweat review article possibly implies otherwise:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6773238/

Because interstitial fluid is the precursor fluid for primary sweat, it follows that many components of final sweat originate from this fluid space. However, the exact mechanisms of secretion are largely unknown for most constituents other than Na and Cl. Potential mechanisms and supporting references are listed in Tables 3 and 4 and may include active or passive (diffusion across membranes or paracellular transport) mechanisms of transport. Some sweat constituents do not originate from the interstitial fluid, but instead, appear in sweat as a result of sweat gland metabolism (e.g. lactate) [140].
If enough fluid is drawn from the interstitia, no doubt you'll get an osmotic draw from vessels. However, I suspect if this type of physiologic pressure is imposed on your vasculature, your body will secrete the necessary aldosterone to preserve serum volume. What's the purpose of aldosterone if it's not drawing fluid from the third space If you acutely drop 5 lbs of sweat, unlikely it's all coming from serum. That type of sudden hypovolemia would likely be incompatible with life, much less functioning consciously on a bike. Yes exogenous replacement would be advantageous. But in the setting of nature where that's not always available, I believe fluid/balance adjustments will ward off what sounds like a certain death sentence. And yes, I understand for most civilized people dropping 5 lbs of sweat could be a death sentence. But I suspect prehistoric man could tolerate it. That being said, I always bring water on my rides, everyone should.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-17-21, 02:47 PM
  #107  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,168

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2862 Post(s)
Liked 258 Times in 171 Posts
Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Thanks for that. You may be right. I don't know for certain. A quick survey from a pubmed sweat review article possibly implies otherwise:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6773238/
I don't see that it does, at all.

Transport of the water from intravascular storage might be osmosis, or might be some active transport mechanism. I haven't looked into it beyond confirming that transport does in fact happen, and pretty quickly in response to physiological demands. The effect of on blood density however is well documented.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 05:32 PM
  #108  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 520
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
You guys are crazy. I get hangry after at most 90 minutes.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 06:04 PM
  #109  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
You guys are crazy. I get hangry after at most 90 minutes.
While you don't have to avoid fluids, consider training fasted. Hangriness is reversible.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 09:11 PM
  #110  
cubewheels
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Manila, Philippines
Posts: 1,502

Bikes: A really old BMX bike, Phantom 20 kid's MTB, Jackal Mio Gravel Bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 662 Post(s)
Liked 286 Times in 229 Posts
Since I started this thread, I have made it a habit to bring a bottle of milk on every ride that is expected to be at least 1 hr long, usually involving lots of climbs. At 80F and 80% humidity it can feel very hot on climbs.
cubewheels is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 05:35 AM
  #111  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,274

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2529 Post(s)
Liked 1,279 Times in 638 Posts
The ideas in this thread get more and more bizarre.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 05:36 AM
  #112  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,274

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2529 Post(s)
Liked 1,279 Times in 638 Posts
Originally Posted by burritos View Post
While you don't have to avoid fluids, consider training fasted. Hangriness is reversible.
Speed is a better cure.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 09:15 AM
  #113  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Speed is a better cure.
Some people like speed and performance. Some people(much less a numeric) like maximal mitophagy flux.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...logy/mitophagy

Though I'm a slow turtle compared to you, I still PR'ed a segment on my return home commute 2 days ago. 25 hours after my last drink/eat. Been doing this commute for over a year. Could be a fluke, but should be an unlikely occurrence if the burden of the fasted state is really that bad. These ideas might be odd and weird, but I find them fascinating. If that makes me a biking forum troll, I apologize.

Last edited by burritos; 01-22-21 at 09:27 AM.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 10:37 AM
  #114  
Bradbikes
Junior Member
 
Bradbikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
It's not crazy to do a three hour relatively flat ride without eating or drinking something, but I probably would have forced myself to drink some water either way. And I always bring at least water and a snack bar or something for any ride.
Bradbikes is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 10:49 AM
  #115  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,274

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2529 Post(s)
Liked 1,279 Times in 638 Posts
Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Some people like speed and performance. Some people(much less a numeric) like maximal mitophagy flux.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...logy/mitophagy

Though I'm a slow turtle compared to you, I still PR'ed a segment on my return home commute 2 days ago. 25 hours after my last drink/eat. Been doing this commute for over a year. Could be a fluke, but should be an unlikely occurrence if the burden of the fasted state is really that bad. These ideas might be odd and weird, but I find them fascinating. If that makes me a biking forum troll, I apologize.
No, you don't.

You post the same thing on nearly every response while 100% ignoring the fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with the context being discussed. You seem to enjoy that for some reason, but no one really cares about trying to better their PRs fasted. It's a pointless exercise and tangent.

You like doing it. Yay. And? There's not much more to it than that, so it really is not a reasonable response to multiple people's posts. It's as meaningless as me saying everyone should just ride faster. It's silly.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 11:07 AM
  #116  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
No, you don't.

You post the same thing on nearly every response while 100% ignoring the fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with the context being discussed. You seem to enjoy that for some reason, but no one really cares about trying to better their PRs fasted. It's a pointless exercise and tangent.

You like doing it. Yay. And? There's not much more to it than that, so it really is not a reasonable response to multiple people's posts. It's as meaningless as me saying everyone should just ride faster. It's silly.
Context? Isn't the thread about whether biking dryfasted is ok or not? For most it's not ok, but it can be. Also you bring up performance a lot. So why is performance while fasted irrelevant(even though for me it is a tangential issue.)? I bring it up to show that it's not always materially detrimental.

And did you indulge in the topic of mitophagy? Do you dispute that it's a real phenomena and that is relevant to cellular/metabolic health?

Last edited by burritos; 01-22-21 at 11:41 AM.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 11:36 AM
  #117  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,274

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2529 Post(s)
Liked 1,279 Times in 638 Posts
Originally Posted by burritos View Post
I don't find it pointless. I find discussing it and digesting the literature quite enjoyable. Though of course I can't read everything. But reading something and then trying to explain helps solidify it cognitively. And I thank you for forcing me to participate in the exercise. Do you not believe in the phenomena of mitophagy flux? If yes, do you believe that there are things that might upregulate or down regulate it?

The bolded is the only thing you've said that I agree with .

Your last two questions exemplify my point about context. Neither of them have a single thing to do with what I've stated. You're continually trying to steer a discussion into unrelated tangents.

There has to be an understanding of the context of a post and whether what you're continually typing has anything to do with that or not.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 11:38 AM
  #118  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,274

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2529 Post(s)
Liked 1,279 Times in 638 Posts
Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Context? Isn't the thread about whether biking dryfasted is ok or not? Also you bring up performance a lot. So why is performance while fasted irrelevant?
Performance while fasted is irrelevant because fasting for performance is irrelevant. It doesn't aid performance, it hinders it. As has been mentioned umpteenth times. As you've alluded to with your own rides and your own links.

Last edited by Homebrew01; 01-30-21 at 04:04 AM. Reason: Removed off topic content.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 11:56 AM
  #119  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
The bolded is the only thing you've said that I agree with .

Your last two questions exemplify my point about context. Neither of them have a single thing to do with what I've stated. You're continually trying to steer a discussion into unrelated tangents.

There has to be an understanding of the context of a post and whether what you're continually typing has anything to do with that or not.
Yes. I agree. My thoughts can be tangential.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 11:57 AM
  #120  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Performance while fasted is irrelevant because fasting for performance is irrelevant. It doesn't aid performance, it hinders it. As has been mentioned umpteenth times. As you've alluded to with your own rides and your own links.
I also suspect that deep down inside I too am seeking attention and affirmation. Obviously I'm not getting either. But that's ok. I still appreciate the back and forth. It was fun. And thank you.

Last edited by Homebrew01; 01-30-21 at 04:05 AM. Reason: Removed quote of off topic content.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 11:59 AM
  #121  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Performance while fasted is irrelevant because fasting for performance is irrelevant. It doesn't aid performance, it hinders it. As has been mentioned umpteenth times. As you've alluded to with your own rides and your own links.
I agree. Just like putting on a weighted vest or training at high altitude.

Last edited by Homebrew01; 01-31-21 at 07:08 AM.
burritos is offline  
Old 01-26-21, 09:09 AM
  #122  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 520
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Every pro athlete drinks, and yet you think it might be a good idea not to? I can't fathom that.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-29-21, 11:51 AM
  #123  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 17,192

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2817 Post(s)
Liked 737 Times in 552 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Every pro athlete drinks, and yet you think it might be a good idea not to? I can't fathom that.
Some have it harder than others. One of my favorite stories: My wife and I were about a 1/2 mile from the trailhead, returning from a 5-hour hike up a local mountain. We met a family: man, woman, 2 young children, on their way up, no day packs. It was maybe an hour before dark. It's a mountain. People have died. We asked them about their hiking plans, hoping to turn them around. The man said, "Don't worry. I have a gun." It's all fine until it isn't. This somewhat exaggerates this thread - or maybe not.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 01-29-21, 12:22 PM
  #124  
burritos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Some have it harder than others. One of my favorite stories: My wife and I were about a 1/2 mile from the trailhead, returning from a 5-hour hike up a local mountain. We met a family: man, woman, 2 young children, on their way up, no day packs. It was maybe an hour before dark. It's a mountain. People have died. We asked them about their hiking plans, hoping to turn them around. The man said, "Don't worry. I have a gun." It's all fine until it isn't. This somewhat exaggerates this thread - or maybe not.
I always bring food and water just in case. On 2 particularly long warmish rides of 5hr+, I did have to consume and imbibe. But for all other excursions, I bring back my backup hydration and calories unused.
burritos is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.