HOW do you survive without a car?
#51
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,971
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,534 Times
in
1,044 Posts
I suspect that the numerous third world nationals working in the prosperous countries as servants and laborers for the locals are working to put enough to put food on the tables of their families back home where the working conditions/wages and job opportunities are even worse.
#52
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Posts: 411
Bikes: Dawes Lightning DLX, 1988 Klein Performance, 1991 Peugeot Safari, 1985 Raleigh Alyeska, Carrera Phantom, 1973 Raleigh Record
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 129 Times
in
92 Posts
Here let me give you a simple interpretation of those pics: Public transit sucks in most third world countries, is dangerous, uncomfortable and just a huge PITA to use. Another thing to look out for is cultural trends of the countries. I don't know about Saudi Arabia but in some countries having a car is a status symbol which will get you more respect. In many countries car-free people are considered lower class citizens.
#53
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
I know, you're right....And none of the business CEO's and businessman who own oil companies would ever consider going car-free and walk, use 50 year old minibuses or bicycles as their daily transportation.
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
well. all post are awesome on this thread. I had a japanese friend visit me one summer. He was surprised to see so few people riding their bikes or walking around. I was perplexed and asked him for more explanation. He explained that in Japan, many apartments tend to have first floor as retail/grocery. so many people choose to not have a car because they can just walk a couple blocks to buy groceries. Its different in North america, we tend to place homes far away from the retail places. For instance, Where I live, it is impractical for me to ride my bike to work because it would take me in excess of 3 hours one way. So i drive out of necessity. But my next goal is to earn enough money to live closer to my home. again, it all depend on how much you can afford to find a place closer to your work. For example, if you worked in downtown, and you wanted to have a home close by (walking distance or biking distance) most houses would be in the 3/4 million dollars or more. For me, thats too rich for my blood. So many people would prefer to live farther away because the prices of homes are cheaper. As to apartments, or condominums, the one closer to downtown are much higher, a small 1 bedroom condo would be in the stratosphere of 300,000 dollars or higher. Then again, it all comes to affordability. It is affordable to have a house/apartment that are farther from downtown core, and put up with driving a car, or put up with hours of transit trips. I usually use transit (light rail or bus) to commute to School as it is more practical to use Light rail transit. but for work, I drive because time wise, driving is shorter than light rail as well. it would take me 30 to 40 minutes driving time one way, using transit (light rail and bus) would take me a little more than 1 hour one way(barring any incidences such as break down).
P
P
People want to save time in commuting so they drive. However, a car commute maybe costing you more money each year because your transportation costs are much higher than someone taking a bus. Time is money but it also costs a lot of money to save time.
Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 05-14-16 at 11:48 AM.
#55
Prefers Cicero
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
You're probably right. I thought that the pictures would speak a thousand words, but apparently they were the wrong words. The idea I was trying to bring across is that with these buses, combined with the heat and road conditions, it would be nearly impossible to get around and stay fresh and presentable. The decades-old problem with this country is that there never has been a proper, publicly funded, city-managed "public" transport system in the true sense of the word (i.e. as understood in the Western world.)
There were more than one attempt by Saptco and others to set up an urban system a few years back, but they just couldn't get it done right the first time; they just couldn't compete with the privately owned buses. The drivers of those buses charge passengers less than half what big-ticket corporations like Saptco would charge (why pay five riyals to get somewhere when you could pay two?)
The government has been trying for years to eliminate them, but there was no legal way to put them out of business (and they would just up and complain to the king or the region's prince every time the municipality or the traffic department fires a salvo.) The only move the government could make is to prevent them from replacing their old buses with new ones, so that's they they kept running those decades-old Toyota Coasters.
So, all of these factors, plus the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of low-wage foreign workers who depend on these buses to get around, the the fact that gas is comparatively cheap, and most everyone as their dog own cars, it's kind of hard to set up a public transport system and get enough people to use it to make it economically feasible for the city and the operators. They're building a subway system in Riyadh now, but whether or not it would be popular enough to cover its costs is anybody's guess at this point.
There were more than one attempt by Saptco and others to set up an urban system a few years back, but they just couldn't get it done right the first time; they just couldn't compete with the privately owned buses. The drivers of those buses charge passengers less than half what big-ticket corporations like Saptco would charge (why pay five riyals to get somewhere when you could pay two?)
The government has been trying for years to eliminate them, but there was no legal way to put them out of business (and they would just up and complain to the king or the region's prince every time the municipality or the traffic department fires a salvo.) The only move the government could make is to prevent them from replacing their old buses with new ones, so that's they they kept running those decades-old Toyota Coasters.
So, all of these factors, plus the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of low-wage foreign workers who depend on these buses to get around, the the fact that gas is comparatively cheap, and most everyone as their dog own cars, it's kind of hard to set up a public transport system and get enough people to use it to make it economically feasible for the city and the operators. They're building a subway system in Riyadh now, but whether or not it would be popular enough to cover its costs is anybody's guess at this point.
However, none of us are doomed to a car dependent life. Most of my family owns cars and they live not far from where I live. I have high standards and demand to live within walking distance of a lightrail line. However, I was carfree for years with one bus line. I moved five miles away and now have access to numerous bus and rail lines. It's all about choice.
1. I don't make a six figure salary
2. I don't live in a 400K condo or 1 million dollar home (although there are many close by)
3. I found that one can live very close to the well off with just a bicycle and transit
4. I never worked in a job that could not be reached by transit
Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 05-16-16 at 06:04 PM.
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
I guess those of us like myself who are carfree should be considered lucky. Thanks for sharing with us your story from halfway around the world.
However, none of us are doom to a car dependent life. Most of my family owns cars and they live not far from where I live. I have high standards and demand to live within walking distance of a lightrail line. However, I was carfree for years with one bus line. I moved five miles away and now have access to numerous bus and rail lines. It's all about choice.
1. I don't make a six figure salary
2. I don't live in a 400K condo or 1 million dollar home (although there are many close by)
3. I found that one can live very close to the well off with just a bicycle and transit
4. I never worked in a job that could not be reached by transit
However, none of us are doom to a car dependent life. Most of my family owns cars and they live not far from where I live. I have high standards and demand to live within walking distance of a lightrail line. However, I was carfree for years with one bus line. I moved five miles away and now have access to numerous bus and rail lines. It's all about choice.
1. I don't make a six figure salary
2. I don't live in a 400K condo or 1 million dollar home (although there are many close by)
3. I found that one can live very close to the well off with just a bicycle and transit
4. I never worked in a job that could not be reached by transit
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Posts: 6,139
Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.
The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.
I myself often use a bicycle to replace automobile transportation. And when using the car I often consolidate trips... say wait till Wednesday and take care of several tasks in one trip... driving less miles and using less fuel. But I have a very full, rich life. I don't think driving more would in my case make life fuller (but I have to wonder).
Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.
The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.
I myself often use a bicycle to replace automobile transportation. And when using the car I often consolidate trips... say wait till Wednesday and take care of several tasks in one trip... driving less miles and using less fuel. But I have a very full, rich life. I don't think driving more would in my case make life fuller (but I have to wonder).
Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.
Last edited by Dave Cutter; 05-14-16 at 12:53 PM.
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.
The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.
I myself often use a bicycle to replace automobile transportation. And when using the car I often consolidate trips... say wait till Wednesday and take care of several tasks in one trip... driving less miles and using less fuel. But I have a very full, rich life. I don't think driving more would in my case make life fuller (but I have to wonder).
Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.
The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.
I myself often use a bicycle to replace automobile transportation. And when using the car I often consolidate trips... say wait till Wednesday and take care of several tasks in one trip... driving less miles and using less fuel. But I have a very full, rich life. I don't think driving more would in my case make life fuller (but I have to wonder).
Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.
Help me out here: what is the connection between car-free living and drug addiction?
Last edited by Ekdog; 05-14-16 at 02:09 PM.
#61
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...
Many of the car-free who post here are content with our lives, more so than we were when we relied on cars. We earn enough and don't want for more. You've failed at this. You were unable to thrive car-free and have found it necessary to revert to car ownership because you feel a need to acquire more consumer goods. Some might say that you are the one who suffers from an addiction.
Likes For Ekdog:
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA. USA
Posts: 3,804
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Disc Trucker
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1015 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...
The world around me got bigger when I became car free. I got to know all kinds of neat places around me. You could say the I did that because I was "limited". I choose to think I had my eyes opened.
On tour nearly every morning is downright exciting in what the day will uncover as I warm up on my ride. Being escorted by a car so I can melt into the seat and sit in traffic and slowly die holds no appeal to me. You can have it.
Last edited by Walter S; 05-14-16 at 03:18 PM.
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA. USA
Posts: 3,804
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Disc Trucker
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1015 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Many of the car-free who post here are content with our lives, more so than we were when we relied on cars. We earn enough and don't want for more. You've failed at this. You were unable to thrive car-free and have found it necessary to revert to car ownership because you feel a need to acquire more consumer goods. Some might say that you are the one who suffers from an addiction.
I'm just fine with him not wanting to be car free. It's not for everybody. No questions asked. But don't keep on day after day insulting me and questioning my integrity.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
I agree. But wolfchild can't just be a lover of cars and leave it at that. He needs to continue to spout absolute declarations that car free life sucks for everybody and that car free people inflict this pain on themselves to prove something. I find that pretty insulting.
I'm just fine with him not wanting to be car free. It's not for everybody. No questions asked. But don't keep on day after day insulting me and questioning my integrity.
I'm just fine with him not wanting to be car free. It's not for everybody. No questions asked. But don't keep on day after day insulting me and questioning my integrity.
#66
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
Meanwhile, I've seen some great posts here from others--particularly some newer members. Thank you all!!! I hope people will continue with both questions and answers about HOW they manage to become less reliant on cars.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
Last edited by Roody; 05-15-16 at 12:48 AM.
#67
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
As a gentle reminder of the topic, here is the OP:
Please take the title of this thread literally. Tell us HOW you do it. How have you have adjusted your habits or developed new skills in order to be carfree, or at least less dependent on cars?
If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,
(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)
If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,
(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#68
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
I know at least three different routes to every place I go. I know routes that are sheltered for windy and cold days, and shady routes with lots of downhills for coasting on hot days. I know fast routes (often with a lot of car traffic) for when I'm in a hurry, and slow and easy routes for when I have more time.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#69
Prefers Cicero
“I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before, but to go as far as it was possible to go.”
Of course, he was car-free too.
Last edited by cooker; 05-15-16 at 10:05 AM.
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA. USA
Posts: 3,804
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Disc Trucker
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1015 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Well, you certainly aren't Captain Cook:
“I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before, but to go as far as it was possible to go.”
“I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before, but to go as far as it was possible to go.”
Last edited by Walter S; 05-15-16 at 10:09 AM.
#71
BF's Resident Dumbass
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,566
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer (size 21"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9; 2020 Dahon Hemingway D9
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 792 Post(s)
Liked 1,494 Times
in
496 Posts
If a person is car-free for ideological reasons... limit the persons employment opportunities... limit travel opportunities... basically stuck in your neighbourhood... limit enjoyment of life... prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential... prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life...
None of those who chose to go completely car-free would ever say that motor vehicles are the stuff of evil. Ambulances are motor vehicles. Fire engines are motor vehicles. The awesome-looking armored SUVs that SWAT teams use to fight terrorists and hostage takes are motor vehicles. The bus that moves you between the terminal and the airliner is a motor vehicle. Which is to say that motor vehicles - both as tools and as objects of affection - are a natural result of human progression and advancement, and have and will always have their place and purpose. Yes, I enjoy riding my bicycle for 20 kilometers in 40+ degree heat and sweating like a pig, but I will gladly use my nice, comfy, air-conditioned Benz to go to a business meeting or take my wife out to dinner in style.
Last edited by sjanzeir; 05-15-16 at 10:51 PM.
#72
Senior Member
Please take the title of this thread literally. Tell us HOW you do it. How have you have adjusted your habits or developed new skills in order to be carfree, or at least less dependent on cars?
If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,
(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)
If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,
(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.
The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.
The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
Those who are motorized are able to buy drugs in larger quantities and sell them at greater distances. This limits them from being able to find high quality employment as they are constantly in and out of prison. Although they have motorized transportation, most are basically stuck in a poor neighborhoods since no one will hire a convict at high wages even if they have a car. It will limit their enjoyment of life and prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential.
Wait a second. I'm sounding like Wolfchild !!! LOL.
#75
Senior Member
Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.