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Keto diet?

Old 02-27-20, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Following a Keto diet doesn't make you immune from ingesting chemicals...All those things you mention are found in your "keto approved" foods which you buy at your local grocery store, that's why eating a lot of fibre is important for health, fibre cleanses your body and supports healthy gut bacteria.....Also realize that the " wild caught" fish which Arctic Inuit eat are contaminated with high levels of mercury and other pollutants which are found on the ocean where they catch their fish.
About just the salmon - not so. See: https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/n...armed-salmon#1
and any other source of valid info you can find. It's true that Inuit sled dogs, fed exclusively on chum or "dog" salmon exhibit higher levels of mercury, but they are fed these salmon exclusively and eat an enormous quantity of it. Health benefits of eating wild-caught salmon far outweigh any worry about contaminants, which are very low. I wish I could afford to eat more of it.
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Old 02-27-20, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
The point is that a plant based diet is laced with natural toxins.The keto diet reduces the amount of these toxins by a huge amount.
Except that our bodies have evolved to handle the type and quantities of toxins found in these plants without issue so they pose no health risk to us. Vegetables are healthy.
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Old 02-28-20, 09:39 AM
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It is interesting how what we "imagine" about food and nutrition can lead us to real life choices. Whether it's Keto, organic, vegan, clean eating, non GMO... Almost all of those choices are faith based because there is no real way to measure or show the benefits they claim. We are wonderfully adaptive generalist machines so we can tolerate, to a degree, those choices and think they are working and equally suppose, the negatives we attribute to their opposites must really exist as well. Buff or attractive pseudo science influencers promote those ideas and we rarely get to hear about their fails when they occur because they just stop blogging.

Does Keto help lose weight. Yes. Mostly because those who think they are doing it, aren't, and they just wind up being somewhat calorie reduced in terms of available energy from carbs so they dip into fat stores. But few do keto long term and when they stop they usually rebound because the diet hasn't really taught them the basics of proper diet ie. balanced nutrition, calorie counting etc... but rather binge habits like putting sticks of butter in coffee or eating a pound of bacon for breakfast.

Lot's of diets can work if you follow them short term but I would be more interested in dietary habits that I could adopt long term as true lifestyle changes. A lot of doctors seem to suggest keto is not a desirable long term choice for non epileptic adults.
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Old 02-28-20, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
<snip>Almost all of those choices are faith based because there is no real way to measure or show the benefits they claim. <snip>
Lot's of diets can work if you follow them short term but I would be more interested in dietary habits that I could adopt long term as true lifestyle changes. A lot of doctors seem to suggest keto is not a desirable long term choice for non epileptic adults.
Almost being the operative word, there being many commonalities among desirable diets:
Can we say what diet is best for health?
Game Changers: 5 Diet Studies That Made A Difference
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Old 02-28-20, 03:09 PM
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Happy Feet that isn't really true. There are ways of knowing, there are just no ways of completely knowing that aren't subject to revision. The fact that accepted wisdom changes doesn't mean it's worthless or wrong. Over time, our collective knowledge becomes more refined. It pays to pay attention to literature that is coming out as well as conventional practices.
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Old 02-28-20, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Almost being the operative word, there being many commonalities among desirable diets:
Can we say what diet is best for health?
Game Changers: 5 Diet Studies That Made A Difference
Game Changers is nothing but vegan propaganda and one of the finest propaganda films ever made. They use a lot of famous and influential people in that movie to make it sound more convincing. The entire movie is designed to play on peoples minds and to push vegan agenda on the whole world. The movie is full of cherry picking and inaccuracies.
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Old 02-28-20, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Game Changers is nothing but vegan propaganda and one of the finest propaganda films ever made. They use a lot of famous and influential people in that movie to make it sound more convincing. The entire movie is designed to play on peoples minds and to push vegan agenda on the whole world. The movie is full of cherry picking and inaccuracies.
??? I suppose you could have simply clicked on the link and read the article, but no, you have to go off on a rant about whatever. Movie? What movie? There's always amusement to be found on BF. I love how people go off about stuff of which they know absolutely nothing because they didn't even bother to read the material under discussion.
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Old 02-28-20, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
??? I suppose you could have simply clicked on the link and read the article, but no, you have to go off on a rant about whatever. Movie? What movie? There's always amusement to be found on BF. I love how people go off about stuff of which they know absolutely nothing because they didn't even bother to read the material under discussion.
One of the links you posted included words " Game Changers", it's a very well known vegan propaganda movie...These people are so determined to change the world, that they will cherry pick nutrition studies which support their agenda.
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Old 02-28-20, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
One of the links you posted included words " Game Changers", it's a very well known vegan propaganda movie...These people are so determined to change the world, that they will cherry pick nutrition studies which support their agenda.
Whatever. Never heard of it. So don't read and learn. IDC

Must be something railed against on meat-eater websites. I went and read some reviews. Doesn't sound dangerously subversive. I think the world order will continue all right. There was a TdF rider on a vegan kick a few years ago. He did OK, but IIRC no better than before.
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Old 02-28-20, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Except that our bodies have evolved to handle the type and quantities of toxins found in these plants without issue so they pose no health risk to us. Vegetables are healthy.
Our bodies evolved when the average lifespan was 30. Now we have another thirty years to accumulate toxins in our systems.
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Old 02-28-20, 06:27 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Almost being the operative word, there being many commonalities among desirable diets:
Can we say what diet is best for health?
Game Changers: 5 Diet Studies That Made A Difference
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Happy Feet that isn't really true. There are ways of knowing, there are just no ways of completely knowing that aren't subject to revision. The fact that accepted wisdom changes doesn't mean it's worthless or wrong. Over time, our collective knowledge becomes more refined. It pays to pay attention to literature that is coming out as well as conventional practices.
Just to clarify. I think reading and educating oneself with balanced information is a good thing. The studies linked are an excellent example of common sense data that I tend to agree with. What I was referring to was the more recent phenomena of going all in emotionally on dietary fads that rely more on fuzzy science, misappropriated data or no studies at all. Usually they have more of an appeal to emotion ie. you ought to want to do this because it "feels" right.

Probably the worst thing we have done to ourselves via the internet is to villianize whole groups of foods in some crazy attempt to find the "one right" way of eating. Where in the past neurotics used to seek treatment, they now start food blogs and try to influence others to adopt their fears as well.

There are really very few bad foods (if you don't have an allergy) when taken in moderation but that seems to be a quality (moderation) that has gone out of fashion now. For my part I primarily look to whole foods, from a variety of food groups, that I prepare myself and can calculate as to rough calorie intake. I'm vegetarian so I get my protein from eggs, dairy nuts and tofu and look to whole grains and slow release, lower GI index types over refined carbs or starches. I like all vegetables but try to limit fruit to those that provide some fiber and not just sugars (apples over oranges). I choose that modus operandi when I can but don't second guess an alternative meal here or there for fear the poison is out to get me. I grew up drinking Kool aid, Tang, eating hot dogs and Wonderbread bologna sandwiches with processed cheese slices. If that didn't kill me, some white bread once in a while or a slice of pizza probably won't either.
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Old 02-28-20, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Our bodies evolved when the average lifespan was 30. Now we have another thirty years to accumulate toxins in our systems.
You do realize, that is perhaps the silliest thing someone has ever said in a dietary argument.

I'm adding it to my sig line!
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Old 02-28-20, 06:48 PM
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The human body is pretty efficient at eliminating toxins. Toxins aren't necessarily a bad thing until they reach a lethal level. So except for a few that are hard for your body to eliminate over time, they won't be an issue for most people.

The Keto diet, like many other diets has many different versions. Originally it was 90% Calories from fat, 6% from protein and 4% from carbohydrates. Is your Keto diet like that? I doubt it. The newer versions are a little more balanced in fats and proteins, but still low in carb's. So they really aren't very different than most other diets except for the carb thing.

I couldn't do the cycling in the manner I do if I were on any Keto. I've got to have carbs to replete my glycogen as I ride. I like to attack hills and spend a lot of time at or near anaerobic levels. Not because it's necessarily great for my performance or training, but because it's what I enjoy.

If Keto works for the way any of you ride that's fine. But don't try to support one diet and bash others with the doom and gloom quasi-intellectual facts that are half-truths. Every diet out there espouses their own set of half-truths to suit their position.

I lost my weight and got much better health over 15 years ago by switching temporarily to vegetarian diet with fish and eggs. Over 60 percent of my Calories before accounting for Calories consumed while riding were carbohydrates. My best riding was while on that diet. I also don't require any meds currently except for b12 injections because my digestive system won't absorb b12. But that happend 25 years ago, so it's not diet related. Nearly 62, I get many surprised responses from nurses and doctors when tell them I don't take any meds and then they see my blood pressure, triglycerides and other stuff.
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Old 02-28-20, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post


Lot's of diets can work if you follow them short term but I would be more interested in dietary habits that I could adopt long term as true lifestyle changes.

Easy answer to that one: An omnivore diet. A combination of plant foods and animal foods has been proven to work and has sustained human race for thousands of years. All successful athletes follow omnivore diets.
People who live in " Blue Zone Areas " also follow an omnivore diet. Why change something that works ??
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Old 02-28-20, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Easy answer to that one: An omnivore diet. A combination of plant foods and animal foods has been proven to work and has sustained human race for thousands of years. All successful athletes follow omnivore diets.
People who live in " Blue Zone Areas " also follow an omnivore diet. Why change something that works ??
Saying omnivore doesnt really describe anything much. Is that three squares of mac and cheese with hotdogs or brown rice and sardines? Both are omnivore but vary greatly in nutritional value.

And not all athletes are omnivore. I have been athletic all my adult life and am 20 years into being vegetarian. Lots of others that way as well as vegan. But that chpice has nothing to do with diet or politics perse but is more a religious conviction. I could be just as healthy eating a mixed diet. If I were not vegetarian I would immediately add sardines, kippers, salmon and tuna to my daily diet.

It helps if one stays away from vague generalities and deals with more specific examples.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 02-28-20 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 02-28-20, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Our bodies evolved when the average lifespan was 30. Now we have another thirty years to accumulate toxins in our systems.
Yawn. Not toxic is not toxic. There's no evidence to indicate vegetables are damaging people's health.
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Old 02-28-20, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Whatever. Never heard of it. So don't read and learn. IDC

Must be something railed against on meat-eater websites. I went and read some reviews. Doesn't sound dangerously subversive. I think the world order will continue all right. There was a TdF rider on a vegan kick a few years ago. He did OK, but IIRC no better than before.
Game Changers the "documentary" is pretty bad. In essence, it poses as a reputable documentary while really being a propaganda piece. It's quite dishonest.
https://renaissanceperiodization.com...y-dr-mel-davis

Your link, which came before the movie, was quite good IMO. It's unfortunate that it (now) shares the same name. I almost didn't click on it for that reason.
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Old 02-28-20, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by nob View Post
Hi, are there any medications that help you lose weight?
Yes, there are. You should have started a new thread instead of bumping a zombie thread about keto.
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Old 02-29-20, 07:08 AM
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On podcasts I noticed a trend of many keto people trying to add more protein or even carnivore.

I also upped meat and eggs a bit and reduced fat a bit. Protein is more satiating. Yes, excess will be converted to glucose, but inefficiently (in case one wants to lose weight, inefficiency is good).

No matter what people say, I get to eat yummy food. There are worse things in the world than eating meat, eggs, salmon etc. I bake all my vegetables into a meatloaf (for lack of better term)... really yummy.
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Old 02-29-20, 02:12 PM
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Happy Feet thanks very much for your clarification. Now I find that I fully agree with you.
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Old 02-29-20, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Easy answer to that one: An omnivore diet. A combination of plant foods and animal foods has been proven to work and has sustained human race for thousands of years. All successful athletes follow omnivore diets.
People who live in " Blue Zone Areas " also follow an omnivore diet. Why change something that works ??
​​​​​​That's not true. Anish set the fastest known time on the 2,660 mile PCT as a vegan. She walked 45 miles and 11,000 feet of elevation change every day for two months, carrying her home on her back.

I think she also has the FKTs on the AT and CDT.
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Old 02-29-20, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​That's not true. Anish set the fastest known time on the 2,660 mile PCT as a vegan. She walked 45 miles and 11,000 feet of elevation change every day for two months, carrying her home on her back.

I think she also has the FKTs on the AT and CDT.
I ride with a female vegan, ~60 or so. Looks 35. She goes on 70,000' bike tours in the French Alps, and similar. A little story on her though, which I think makes a good point. A group of us were touring somewhere in Montana. We were staying in a one hotel/one restaurant town. At dinner we were looking over the menu and another woman said, Look, there's liver and onions! And the vegan said, "I'll have that!" Hey, it was Montana. No need to be stupid about diet, and she's not a stupid woman.
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Old 02-29-20, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​That's not true. Anish set the fastest known time on the 2,660 mile PCT as a vegan. She walked 45 miles and 11,000 feet of elevation change every day for two months, carrying her home on her back.

I think she also has the FKTs on the AT and CDT.
I would be careful choosing a diet based on what famous sports people eat. They mostly have heightened metabolism due to their exercise and take tons of supplements (plus the ..ahem... unofficial supplements alas Lance Armstrong). They also get paid to pretend to eat or drink sponsored food. All not really applicable to normal people.

if you need to eat or drink protein supplements, your diet is not sufficient.
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Old 03-01-20, 12:25 AM
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Just as applicable, be cautious about following what social media influencers say they eat.
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Old 03-01-20, 02:53 PM
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I think it’s pretty accepted that the “Mediterranean diet” is very healthy, maybe the best.

I pretty much eat like this anyway, so it’s ideal for me.

Course I will go to a steakhouse from time to time, go to town on some pasta with sausage and broccoli rabe (and a loaf of bread), or a nice cheeseburger.

But generally, I’m yogurt/fruit breakfast, fish/veg/grain lunch, fish/poultry/veg/carb dinner. Apple a day. Oh, Hershey’s dark chocolate kisses for dessert.

I love my diet. I love to eat. Food literally makes me smile when I see it and I’m a total basket case if deprived/hungry. and I could never do Keto or any diet I can’t eat bread.

I think there is a great deal of flexibility in what a healthy diet can be provided you have good portion control and excercise a lot.
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