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Keto diet?

Old 03-01-20, 04:33 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post


if you need to eat or drink protein supplements, your diet is not sufficient.

I agree with this 100%, and it's very easy to meet your daily protein needs by eating real food.
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Old 03-01-20, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CyclingBK View Post
I think it’s pretty accepted that the “Mediterranean diet” is very healthy, maybe the best.
Mediterranean Diet together with Blue Zone Diet are two of the healthiest ways of eating. The problem is that there are many "self proclaimed nutrition scientists and experts" out there who twist the truth and put their own interpretation, cherry pick facts which suit their beliefs and tell everybody that those two diets are low-fat and don't include any animal products, when in realty they both include regular meat consumption, seafood and full fat dairy consumption and are moderately high in fat.
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Old 03-01-20, 06:27 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Mediterranean Diet together with Blue Zone Diet are two of the healthiest ways of eating. The problem is that there are many "self proclaimed nutrition scientists and experts" out there who twist the truth and put their own interpretation, cherry pick facts which suit their beliefs and tell everybody that those two diets are low-fat and don't include any animal products, when in realty they both include regular meat consumption, seafood and full fat dairy consumption and are moderately high in fat.
How would anyone think that the Mediterranean diet doesn’t have fish and olive oil and yogurt in it? The people live on a sea full of fish (and octopus, my favorite ; ) and on the land, every other tree has olives in it.
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Old 03-01-20, 09:37 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
I would be careful choosing a diet based on what famous sports people eat. They mostly have heightened metabolism due to their exercise and take tons of supplements (plus the ..ahem... unofficial supplements alas Lance Armstrong). They also get paid to pretend to eat or drink sponsored food. All not really applicable to normal people.

if you need to eat or drink protein supplements, your diet is not sufficient.
I was responding to the claim that there are no successful athletes who don't eat meat, by pointing to an example of a successful athlete who doesn't eat meat.

No one is sponsoring the lady, and you can't buy steroids in the wilderness. Hiking and cycling don't change your metabolism they burn calories in and of themselves. Even if they did change your metabolism that still wouldn't mean you need to eat more meat if you're sedentary.
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Old 04-16-20, 09:00 AM
  #105  
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Is it really effective?
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Old 04-16-20, 09:50 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by TheFitAdventure View Post
Anyone here on the keto diet while training? I'm new to cycling/biking but was wondering if anyone has experience being on keto and endurance training.
NO if you sit on arse play video games all day then maybe. Active life forget it. Just don’t eat too much. Stay busy you will forget and not feel hunger pangs until you really are hungry.
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Old 04-28-20, 07:05 AM
  #107  
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I won't suggest keto diet.
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Old 05-07-20, 06:22 PM
  #108  
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New academic study confirms keto diet is healthier,

https://osf.io/preprints/nutrixiv/rdjfb/
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Old 05-07-20, 08:06 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
New academic study confirms keto diet is healthier,

https://osf.io/preprints/nutrixiv/rdjfb/
1) It's a preprint. Not reviewed.
2) Doesn't confirm what you think it confirms.
3) Contains admitted known unknowns
4) Very short-term studies don't prove anything.
5 These are not athletes - they are inpatients.

While interesting, the authors are conflicted about why their results are what they are. They raise more questions than they answer. If verified, what this study might show is that neither extreme diet has the bad effects which their critics claim for them. Long term effects have been addressed by many studies.

None of this has any application to those who are interested in diet's contribution to athletic performance or how diet plus athleticism affects health.

All that said, it was an interesting read even though by design it had little to do with my diet or the diet of anyone I know.

All those meal photos look a lot like my wife's cooking, except that, we combine the two threads of nutrition, excepting that we eat no meat or chicken, only a little fish. We consume a fair bit of olive oil and dairy fat. We're Med oriented, not LF, or LC.
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Old 05-08-20, 10:49 AM
  #110  
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Keto diet long term leads to cancer. You need fiber and whole wheat.
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Old 05-12-20, 01:42 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
1) It's a preprint. Not reviewed.
2) Doesn't confirm what you think it confirms.
3) Contains admitted known unknowns
4) Very short-term studies don't prove anything.
5 These are not athletes - they are inpatients.

While interesting, the authors are conflicted about why their results are what they are. They raise more questions than they answer. If verified, what this study might show is that neither extreme diet has the bad effects which their critics claim for them. Long term effects have been addressed by many studies.

None of this has any application to those who are interested in diet's contribution to athletic performance or how diet plus athleticism affects health.

All that said, it was an interesting read even though by design it had little to do with my diet or the diet of anyone I know.

All those meal photos look a lot like my wife's cooking, except that, we combine the two threads of nutrition, excepting that we eat no meat or chicken, only a little fish. We consume a fair bit of olive oil and dairy fat. We're Med oriented, not LF, or LC.
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Old 05-16-20, 12:01 AM
  #112  
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Low octane fuel low octane life. High octane fuel full speed and energy required or stay home and watch Oprah.
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Old 06-02-20, 07:32 AM
  #113  
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Keto diet to fight Covid19.

A Low-Carb Strategy for Fighting the Pandemic’s Toll

The coronavirus has added a brutal exclamation point to America’s pervasive ill health. Americans with obesity, diabetes, heart disease and other diet-related diseases are about three times more likely to suffer worsened outcomes from Covid-19, including death. Had we flattened the still-rising curves of these conditions, it’s quite possible that our fight against the virus would today look very different.
https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/ne...pandemics-toll
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Old 06-02-20, 09:00 AM
  #114  
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Cute. Not to repeat myself or anything, but never believe someone who owes their livelihood to your believing it. There are clever people of all ideologies who make their money off of fooling us, and then want to impress their conspiracy theories on us as truth. It's everywhere, the cost of having an easy way to disseminate information . . .and misinformation.
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Old 11-30-20, 03:14 PM
  #115  
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I started a keto diet on September 6th, 2020. I am 6'1" and have been in the 225-245lb range (overweight) for nearly 10 years. I got as heavy as 245lbs, but when I started keto I was 231-234lbs.

I am now down to 211, with my goal weight being 185lbs.

Since 2017, I ride a fair amount. About 100-200 miles per week-- but I never lost significant weight, and even gained weight a few times. Since starting the Keto diet I have discovered several things:

1) It is virtually impossible to do any type of quality interval training or strength training (endurance, yes, but power, NO)-- and attempting to do so when fat-adapted is extremely painful, however
2) my sustained energy and output have increased substantially (with regular new PR's on strava) -- This is partially due to the loss in weight , but also because of the steady, bounty of fat i have stored for energy.
3) my on bike sugar cravings are non-existent-- i can complete 100k (with 2,000-3,000ft of elevation) with two avocados and a a cup and half of salted almonds as my snacks
4) long distance rides are 100% possible on keto-- My longest ride so far is just over 100kilometers
5) electrolytes -- and lots of them-- are crucial for all rides
6) Keto can be very boring . Especially because I really love carbs, and vaired keto diets require a love for spending more time in the kitchen than I care to-- because of this...


I've begun experimenting by alternating between (Keto + intermittent fasting) and carb loading for 1-2 days before a long ride. After a long carb-loaded ride. I have discovered that I can get back into ketosis in less than 24 hours with nearly none of the side effects of the initial switch (nausea, headaches, lethargy, jitters, etc). It's important that the ride be long enough to deplete all or nearly all stored carbs.

Last edited by AllWeatherJeff; 12-08-20 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 12-08-20, 01:56 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by AllWeatherJeff View Post
I started a keto diet on September 6th, 2020. I am 6'1" and have been in the 225-245lb range (overweight) for nearly 10 years. I got as heavy as 245lbs, but when I started keto I was 231-234lbs.

I am now down to 211, with my goal weight being 185lbs.

Since 2017, I ride a fair amount. About 100-200 miles per week-- but I never lost significant weight, and even gained weight a few times. Since starting the Keto diet I have discovered several things:

1) It is virtually impossible to do any type of quality interval training or strength training-- and attempting to do so when fat-adapted is extremely painful, however
2) my sustained energy and output have increased substantially (with regular new PR's on strava) -- This is partially due to the loss in weight , but also because of the steady, bounty of fat i have stored for energy.
3) my on bike sugar cravings are non-existent-- i can complete 100k (with 2,000-3,000ft of elevation) with two avocados and a a cup and half of salted almonds as my snacks
4) long distance rides are 100% possible on keto-- My longest ride so far is just over 100kilometers
5) electrolytes -- and lots of them-- are crucial for all rides
6) Keto can be very boring . Especially because I really love carbs, and vaired keto diets require a love for spending more time in the kitchen than I care to-- because of this...


I've begun experimenting by alternating between (Keto + intermittent fasting) and carb loading for 1-2 days before a long ride. After a long carb-loaded ride. I have discovered that I can get back into ketosis in less than 24 hours with nearly none of the side effects of the initial switch (nausea, headaches, lethargy, jitters, etc). It's important that the ride be long enough to deplete all or nearly all stored carbs.
I am planning to do the same but im doubtful if it is healthily possible. And seeing your post gave me direction. Thanks!
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Old 12-08-20, 11:08 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by FastMike View Post
I am planning to do the same but im doubtful if it is healthily possible. And seeing your post gave me direction. Thanks!
I'm glad it was helpful.


Keto definitely isn't going to be a long term lifestyle change for me. But there are plenty of ways to make it a healthy way to lose weight. Many veggies are keto friendly -- bell peppers, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach (are my favorites)-- and there are remarkably easy-to-prepare bread recipes, pre-packaged pancake/waffle mixes, and super low carb tortillas.


Also, the 20gram limit of carbs isn't as fixed as it may seem. For example I've discovered that I can have 40-50 grams of carbs in one day and still be in ketosis ( I use One Earth brand Ketone test strips, 2-3 times a day). And a carb depleting workout seems to get my metabolism quickly back to ketosis for bedtime.

A very important part of being able to stick with the regimen is finding ways to vary what you eat. Keto gets boring quickly if you limit what you eat to a small list of food staples. There are tons of keto options that can help you vary your diet, but the resources aren't always easy to find. A lot of the recipes are insanely simple- even for someone like me who hates involved cooking - it's just a matter of finding the more uncommon ingredients.

Check out Joe Duff's youtube channel. My biggest gains with Keto didn't really take off until after I found his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClE...pqoqtWFEpGAYqw
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Old 01-06-21, 02:37 AM
  #118  
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As for me, this diet is not very suitable for people who lead an active lifestyle. I tried and I had a constant breakdown. I am more comfortable with proper nutrition.
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Old 01-06-21, 10:58 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by AdamJames89 View Post
As for me, this diet is not very suitable for people who lead an active lifestyle. I tried and I had a constant breakdown. I am more comfortable with proper nutrition.
I ride 125 miles per week average while on keto.

In november i rode nearly 600 miles with 32,000 feet of elevation.
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Old 01-09-21, 10:16 PM
  #120  
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Carbs raise insulin. Insulin promotes IGF1(insulin growth factor). Insulin growth factor promotes growth(that's why body builders use it) including cancers. How did someone like Lance Armstrong who was "healthy" get testicular cancer? It wasn't the testicular cancer fairy. No doubt his carbohydrate intake was HUGE . His intense exposure to endogenous IGF likely contributed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6771568/

Note one piece of bread is not going to give you cancer. But eating processed carb/sugar loaded meals with snacks in between for decades is like pushing the IGF1 button all the time. Some of that is going to result in unwanted/unintended/unchecked growth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology)
If you are interested, please acquaint yourself with the Warburg Effect. Otto Warburg was a nobel prize winner in biochemistry 100 years ago. He identified that cancer cells produce lactate in huge amounts. This meant that cancer cells burned only glucose. Not fat or ketones. If you keep fueling yourself with carbohydrates, you put yourself at a higher risk of selecting for cancer. That's why many cancers are "obesity" related. This is true, but it's not the fatness that causes the cancer. It's the insulin/IGF1 that is constantly being spiked(which also causes obesity). And when you finally get a little bit of cancer, fueling it with glucose(or carbs) is like fertilizing it.
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Old 01-09-21, 11:15 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Carbs raise insulin. Insulin promotes IGF1(insulin growth factor). Insulin growth factor promotes growth(that's why body builders use it) including cancers. How did someone like Lance Armstrong who was "healthy" get testicular cancer? It wasn't the testicular cancer fairy. No doubt his carbohydrate intake was HUGE . His intense exposure to endogenous IGF likely contributed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6771568/

Note one piece of bread is not going to give you cancer. But eating processed carb/sugar loaded meals with snacks in between for decades is like pushing the IGF1 button all the time. Some of that is going to result in unwanted/unintended/unchecked growth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology)
If you are interested, please acquaint yourself with the Warburg Effect. Otto Warburg was a nobel prize winner in biochemistry 100 years ago. He identified that cancer cells produce lactate in huge amounts. This meant that cancer cells burned only glucose. Not fat or ketones. If you keep fueling yourself with carbohydrates, you put yourself at a higher risk of selecting for cancer. That's why many cancers are "obesity" related. This is true, but it's not the fatness that causes the cancer. It's the insulin/IGF1 that is constantly being spiked(which also causes obesity). And when you finally get a little bit of cancer, fueling it with glucose(or carbs) is like fertilizing it.
If only the relation between any disease and nutrition were so simple!
A breadth of studies suggests that complex carbohydrate intake is inversely associated with risk of a number of cancer types. Data from studies assessing simple carbohydrates and cancer risk are mixed.
Many studies considered carbohydrates as either an all-encompassing predictor or in stratified classifications (i.e., whole grains, fiber, or complex carbohydrates), albeit at times confounded by inappropriate groupings (e.g., white bread). Moreover, it must be noted that obesity is an accepted etiologic factor implicated in several of the cancer types considered in this review. As such, it is imperative to contemplate that other lifestyle and dietary variables are justifiably important when interpreting results and drawing conclusions. Clinical recommendations based off this review need be tempered. The data do not support any conclusion regarding the feasibility or efficacy of extreme carbohydrate-restricting dietary protocols, such as the ketogenic diet, despite the fact that several experimental mouse models have highlighted its benefits when implemented concomitantly with pharmacological treatments.
Another consideration follows from the recent prospective cohort analysis by Seidelman et al. that found a significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality associated with both very high and very low carbohydrate intakes, suggesting that perhaps not only the type, but also the amount of carbohydrates consumed is important for health
Results of studies examining complex carbohydrates and risk of cancer types other than CRC generally suggest a protective association, whereas results of studies examining simple carbohydrates and cancer risk are mixed.
"CRC" is colorectal cancer. High fiber intake is negatively associated with this cancer. Eat your apples!
https://link.springer.com/article/10...668-019-0264-3
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Old 01-10-21, 01:24 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
If only the relation between any disease and nutrition were so simple!

"CRC" is colorectal cancer. High fiber intake is negatively associated with this cancer. Eat your apples!
https://link.springer.com/article/10...668-019-0264-3
While cancer science is still emerging, the hallmarks of most cancers involve:

It's unlikely that just one gene or one insult causes all this. But dysregulation of energy(burning carbs vs burning fat) is often cited as a key step. When you induce glycolysis(sugar burning) over fat metabolism, you accumulate mitochondria impairment. ROS(reactive oxygen species, also known as 'oxidative stress') occurs primarily at the level of the mitochondria, specifically at the electron transport system. When you have healthy metabolism, ROS acts to mediate insulin signaling. Healthy metabolism will control hunger and prevents the VMH(Ventromedial Hypothalmus) from encouraging foraging/or what we recognize as over eating. "Yum, you can't just eat one cheetoh". Excess ROS occurs with chronic overeating(also known as energy toxicity). ROS unchecked over years can accumulate a multitude of necessary specific DNA insults which ultimately results in the above winning cancer lottery numbers to get the losing ticket.

So I agree with your statement that eating/or not eating one specific thing could cause/stop cancer, including fiber. If you're eating fiber/whole foods, it's possible you're not eating processed foods in abundance at the same time. But the general hypothesis that we're all 1 or 2 genetic errors from cancer is flawed. Yes you need the genetic errors. Some might be inherited. But I believe the dysfunction in mitochondria gives you the DNA damaging mechanism necessary to keep rolling the dice till you hit all the losing numbers.
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Old 01-10-21, 09:41 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Carbs raise insulin. Insulin promotes IGF1(insulin growth factor). Insulin growth factor promotes growth(that's why body builders use it) including cancers. How did someone like Lance Armstrong who was "healthy" get testicular cancer? It wasn't the testicular cancer fairy. No doubt his carbohydrate intake was HUGE . His intense exposure to endogenous IGF likely contributed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6771568/
Why cherry pick him? Why not the millions of other endurance athletes around the world?

His actual coach thought it may have been his intense exposure to human growth hormone, but you know, let's blame carbs instead.
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Old 01-10-21, 02:57 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Why cherry pick him? Why not the millions of other endurance athletes around the world?

His actual coach thought it may have been his intense exposure to human growth hormone, but you know, let's blame carbs instead.
HGH certainly may have contributed. Interesting note about HGH and fasting. When you do prolonged fasting, your body will actually spike HGH. Not necessarily to grow, but to preserve muscle.
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Old 01-10-21, 05:26 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post
HGH certainly may have contributed. Interesting note about HGH and fasting. When you do prolonged fasting, your body will actually spike HGH. Not necessarily to grow, but to preserve muscle.


That...doesn't really have anything to do with LA, though...
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