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Problems with resistance using Rouvy

Old 10-14-19, 08:25 PM
  #26  
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I'll give BigringVR a try next time I ride indoors. The weather has been cooperating with outdoor riding so far, and I'll stay outside as much as possible since it'll be a long enough winter.
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Old 11-05-19, 08:24 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Pirkaus View Post
I use Rouvy with my Kickr Snap, the gradients feel correct going up. Descending is a little off, as you don't carry momentum, if you spin up and back off speed drops quickly. I use it for training, not to to replace road riding, I like the augmented routes, and guided intervals though.
YMMV
That you can't coast downhill has been driving me nuts. If I miss as little as two pedal strokes, I lose 30% of my speed. I also use it for training, but training with power to the pedals 100% of the time isn't realistic, and Rouvy appears to be aiming for realism.
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Old 11-25-19, 11:56 PM
  #28  
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I just purchased the Neo 2T and have the same problem as travelerman describes when interfacing with Rouvy. Any gradient over 4-5% is a grind/mash when using their videos. 7-8% gradients, which I handle well on actual roads, are a nightmare. 16-20% gradients, which I handle in a 39x30 with a slow/steady effort in the real world ... well, in Rouvy I struggle just to turn over the cranks. I've reported this problem to Rouvy and am awaiting their response. While I've read that smart trainers offer more resistance than real-world riding, it seems that the level of resistance being encountered using Rouvy is extreme. Also, as another commenter mentioned, I nearly had to abandon a ride due to my inability to turn over the cranks in a 39x30 gear where in the real world this is absolutely never a problem. So something is amiss.
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Old 11-28-19, 10:51 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by alexbx View Post
I just purchased the Neo 2T and have the same problem as travelerman describes when interfacing with Rouvy. Any gradient over 4-5% is a grind/mash when using their videos. 7-8% gradients, which I handle well on actual roads, are a nightmare. 16-20% gradients, which I handle in a 39x30 with a slow/steady effort in the real world ... well, in Rouvy I struggle just to turn over the cranks. I've reported this problem to Rouvy and am awaiting their response. While I've read that smart trainers offer more resistance than real-world riding, it seems that the level of resistance being encountered using Rouvy is extreme. Also, as another commenter mentioned, I nearly had to abandon a ride due to my inability to turn over the cranks in a 39x30 gear where in the real world this is absolutely never a problem. So something is amiss.
Rouvy seem convinced that the resistance in their app is correct and everyone else's is too easy. You can limit the slope and ease the effort a bit but only in "training" mode. The only way I'm able to use Rouvy with my Kurt Kinetic Control trainer was to put an old triple crankset on my bike. As you noted any slope over 5% is a killer using regular gearing i.e 39x25 not to mention that it's almost impossible to avoid wheel slip if using a wheel on trainer. With the triple I can ride up to 10% using a 30x25
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Old 11-28-19, 11:32 AM
  #30  
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Rouvy App on Windows 10

Originally Posted by peter_d View Post
Rouvy seem convinced that the resistance in their app is correct and everyone else's is too easy. You can limit the slope and ease the effort a bit but only in "training" mode. The only way I'm able to use Rouvy with my Kurt Kinetic Control trainer was to put an old triple crankset on my bike. As you noted any slope over 5% is a killer using regular gearing i.e 39x25 not to mention that it's almost impossible to avoid wheel slip if using a wheel on trainer. With the triple I can ride up to 10% using a 30x25
Thanks a lot for your comment. I thought I was going nuts. I'm a good climber (very good in fact), and after a couple of weeks of light riding, I thought my poor result was partly due to loss of fitness. Well, Rouvy responded a couple of times and asked me for data files, etc, which I sent them. Unfortunately, it's now been a few days and no response back from them. I'm exploring other apps to see if there is a difference in resistance. The odd thing is - odd to me at least - is that my overall wattage on Rouvy seems ballpark-acceptable, but I am definitely resorting to super easy gears - like 39x27/30 - on even moderate gradients (6-7%). One thing that seems to confirm what you are saying, however, is that even when pushing pretty hard my watts rarely climb out of the 300's. That seems way too low. Thanks again for your comment/help.
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Old 11-28-19, 06:40 PM
  #31  
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I have a Neo2 and have ridden Zwift, Rouvy, FulGaz, and Road Grand Tours. Every app has a different resistance feel and slope increase/decrease feel. I have ridden 7 different Rouvy rides with big climbs and didn't notice an unmanageable amount of resistance when doing climbs. My gearing is 50/34 with 11-32 cassette, I like to spin when climbing. I would agree the resistance seems more than what you experience with Zwift for a similar slopes. So you aren't imagining things IMHO. I just haven't experienced any climbs in Rouvy where the resistance was so over done that it was overwhelming.
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Old 11-29-19, 11:58 AM
  #32  
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I will be sending this observation direct to Rouvy - but thought I would share it here

I have gone back to Rouvy a couple of times recently (using the Apple TV app) and been very careful about calibration and making sure there were no additional bluetooth connections etc. (I'm using a Kinetic Rock and Roll Control).
I have also done the same thing in Zwift. I have no complaints with Zwift - resistance feels very close to what I experience in real life. I have Zwift set to 100%.

On Rouvy - I have the following experience:
The addition of resistance (encountering a hill) and the reduction of resistance (getting to a down-slope) are out of sync with the video. Sometimes late in being applied, sometimes early. The impression I have is that the software is "keying" on the position that captured the video . i.e. where that rider would be instead of where my (virtual) rider is. I am an older rider ~ 180W FTP (< 2.5 W/Kg). I do not know how fast the actual rider was going (more on this later) but expect that I am usually much slower that the video speed. So this means that I have not yet arrived at the foot of a hill when the real rider would have - BUT Rouvy seems to apply the added resistance based on the real rider's anticipated position (i.e. early). Similarly - when cresting a hill - Rouvy drops the resistance before I reach the top. I'm not talking a second or two here - more in the 3 to 5 second range.

To make up for my lack of speed - I will often push hard downhill. Likely this places my virtual speed higher than the original video speed and the opposite happens. Resistance is late being applied when encountering the next hill i.e. I'm visually quite a way up before resistance is applied. Sure - on small gradient changes - there would be a "coasting" effect. But I'm talking a quick transition from (say -2% to +7%) - not a lot of real world coasting going on there ....

As a recommendation (assuming the above issue is fixed): It would be very helpful in selecting rides, knowing (for each ride), the FTP and W/Kg and ave Speed that the original video was taken at. Especially for those of us that are more recreational. As well - some form of on-screen indicator of relative speed? position? power? compared to the real life speed would be helpful. Simply stated - if I select a ride that I should be able to do at the recored speed, it would be helpful to judge if I am "keeping up".

Last edited by stuartofmt; 11-29-19 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 12-02-19, 11:43 AM
  #33  
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Just started on Rouvy (we just got a Kickr) and I have experienced the same thing (4% grade feels like a 14% grade). I will adjust the slider in training mode this afternoon to see if that helps.

One question I have, I don't see all that many video routes available (maybe 15 or so in the United States, a bit more than that in the UK etc...). Is that because I am using it without paying (it doesn't say trial version but I assume that is what I am using), or is that what they have for now?
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Old 12-02-19, 04:30 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Jungleland View Post
Just started on Rouvy (we just got a Kickr) and I have experienced the same thing (4% grade feels like a 14% grade). I will adjust the slider in training mode this afternoon to see if that helps.

One question I have, I don't see all that many video routes available (maybe 15 or so in the United States, a bit more than that in the UK etc...). Is that because I am using it without paying (it doesn't say trial version but I assume that is what I am using), or is that what they have for now?
I adjusted the slider to 40% and the uphills were much more accurate but it made the downhills way to fast but I would rather have the uphills and flats more realistic than the downhills.
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Old 12-02-19, 05:36 PM
  #35  
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Rouvey Video Recordings

I would say that most of the Rovey videos, at least the ones I have ridden so far, aren't made during a real ride. I think they are filmed from a Moped or Motor-scooter. You ever notice how you never get passed by other riders that are visible in the videos? You are always passing them.

During a long 7 mile climb today it appeared that Rouvy breaks the climbs into segments as displayed on screen. The segment slope is some form of average or ?? but the resistance seems to stay the same while inside the segment. You can see in the video where the slope flattens and steepens in the climb segment yet the resistance doesn't seem to change until the segment changes.
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Old 12-02-19, 07:04 PM
  #36  
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The answer I got from Rouvy support was this:

"To compare Zwift resistance with Rouvy - 100% in Zwift equals 60% in Rouvy.
You can try it, if you ride in Rouvy in Training mode, go to Settings and set the reality level at 60%.

The video speed depends on your speed. If you ride certified routes, then the grade of the route should be the same, as you see in the video. Sometimes the gare [sic] is adjusted to enable smoother ride."

I tried again today as I had the reality level set to 100%. I reduced it to 70% (the dropdown does not provide a 60% option on apple TV). This resulted in a MUCH better ride with the start and end of slopes seeming to be much closer to the visual expectation and the transition of slope segments. So - it seems that "reality" is ~ 70% of "reality" .... Rouvy did not define their "reality". Depending on how you read the comparison to Zwift - either Rouvy is more real than Zwift or Zwift's virtual world is more real then Rouvy . All I can say is that for me Zwift at 100% feels close to real and Rouvy at 70% feels close to real.
@jmess - the behavior I was experiencing was that the effect of the slope segments was not happening as you went from one segment to another. It was either delayed or happened too soon (it seemed - depending on speed) and by a long time.
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Old 01-07-20, 02:11 PM
  #37  
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Hi all. I was having the same problem and was pulling my hair out trying to understand why I was unable to coast realistically using Rouvy and why a 10% grade felt like 20%. I contacted support and after a week they finally replied with "calibrate your trainer" ...thanks for nothing. After reading this thread I gave BigRingVR a try this morning for 60km through northern Italy. It was fantastic. Going up a 5% grade I was at exactly the speed and heart rate I am in the real world. Going downhill I was able to coast. It was great to use software that works--I even like the interface better too. BigRing doesn't have virtual riders like Rouvy does, but I wasn't obsessed with that feature anyway.

I've cancelled my Rouvy subscription and will be moving over if the next few rides are as good as the first one was. Thanks to everyone here for backing me up that I'm not crazy thinking that Rouvy's calculations are off. I suspect that Rouvy are denying the issue because any change to their sim would mean invalidating their leader board. They need to do it though, obviously.
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Old 01-07-20, 02:16 PM
  #38  
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I've done over 30 different rides on bigringvr no issues.
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Old 03-04-20, 08:11 PM
  #39  
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Hello from Rouvy!

Originally Posted by jmess View Post
I would say that most of the Rovey videos, at least the ones I have ridden so far, aren't made during a real ride. I think they are filmed from a Moped or Motor-scooter. You ever notice how you never get passed by other riders that are visible in the videos? You are always passing them.

During a long 7 mile climb today it appeared that Rouvy breaks the climbs into segments as displayed on screen. The segment slope is some form of average or ?? but the resistance seems to stay the same while inside the segment. You can see in the video where the slope flattens and steepens in the climb segment yet the resistance doesn't seem to change until the segment changes.
Hi jmess, correct the software will stay at that gradients % through the whole segment. We have recently updated our augmented routes to include much better gradient smoothing, check them out! We often use moto’s for videos but it is very common for other cyclist to use their own recording software to build public routes! You can find any type of videos you prefer.

Just started on Rouvy (we just got a Kickr) and I have experienced the same thing (4% grade feels like a 14% grade). I will adjust the slider in training mode this afternoon to see if that helps.

One question I have, I don't see all that many video routes available (maybe 15 or so in the United States, a bit more than that in the UK etc...). Is that because I am using it without paying (it doesn't say trial version but I assume that is what I am using), or is that what they have for now?
Hey Jungleland, you should not have any issues seeing the huge catalog of routes on our platform as we currently have over 7000km of filmed video in our Augmented Reality library! The type of subscription you have does not affect what you see in the catalog. Feel free to use any beta versions which are now available for free.

I just purchased the Neo 2T and have the same problem as travelerman describes when interfacing with Rouvy. Any gradient over 4-5% is a grind/mash when using their videos. 7-8% gradients, which I handle well on actual roads, are a nightmare. 16-20% gradients, which I handle in a 39x30 with a slow/steady effort in the real world ... well, in Rouvy I struggle just to turn over the cranks. I've reported this problem to Rouvy and am awaiting their response. While I've read that smart trainers offer more resistance than real-world riding, it seems that the level of resistance being encountered using Rouvy is extreme. Also, as another commenter mentioned, I nearly had to abandon a ride due to my inability to turn over the cranks in a 39x30 gear where in the real world this is absolutely never a problem. So something is amiss.
Hey alex, please try adjusting the reality level on Rouvy! We also encourage you to follow the blog as we release updates!




As a recommendation (assuming the above issue is fixed): It would be very helpful in selecting rides, knowing (for each ride), the FTP and W/Kg and ave Speed that the original video was taken at. Especially for those of us that are more recreational. As well - some form of on-screen indicator of relative speed? position? power? compared to the real life speed would be helpful. Simply stated - if I select a ride that I should be able to do at the recored speed, it would be helpful to judge if I am "keeping up".
Hey Stuart, because every rider is different and every ride has different ride characteristics we do not have route ride data to overlay onto the ride selection. What you can do is look up the live leaderboards and view power/speed data to judge which ‘ghost’ or virtual partners you can select on your route! Hope this helps!


siggersd
I've got the new kinetic t-6500 and yes there's something off with the rouvy interface. It works flawless resistance wise with its native software and works well on zwift. I've rode a bunch of courses on rouvy, a couple actually felt good, some were questionable but hard to say due to their nature of difficulty, some were just God aweful. The worst ones literally go from 30kph to a brick wall poor transition, 30 watt jumps where I'm putting out steady effort, but the worst is I know what output I can sustain. I've done an ftp test, and with rouvy I'm only able to sustain a much lower output. For me it's reading about 30-50 watts lower, and in race mode there's no way to compensate. Not sure if this is my particular trainer or not, the only way to really be sure is to use an independent power meter. Personally I do have a hunch that it's trainer specific though. It's discouraging looking at the numbers, it's also a bit dangerous because one will try to push harder than they should. It's incredibly frustrating because this has the potential to be a great tool, however neither rouvy or kinetic is making a formal statement on it. If anyone else is having discrepancies I encourage you to please write them and explain your findings as well.
Hey siggersd, if you haven’t tried Rouvy in awhile you should check out some routes after the smoothing update! It should help with any ‘brick wall; issues you may be running into. We’d also recommend calibrating your trainer or making sure you’ve chosen the correct trainer on Rouvy, as the read wattage output does not matter or change in regards to the software.
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Old 03-06-20, 06:19 PM
  #40  
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I guess I should be flattered or impressed that a Rouvy rep responded to this post I started last winter... I've sort of locked in to Zwift for indoor training, but if this deal-breaker issue truly has been fixed, I might have to give them another try. I've always liked the idea of real places as opposed to the cartoon-video worlds in the most ubiquitous of the training apps.
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Old 03-08-20, 06:57 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Casey G Rouvy View Post
Hi jmess, correct the software will stay at that gradients % through the whole segment. We have recently updated our augmented routes to include much better gradient smoothing, check them out! We often use moto’s for videos but it is very common for other cyclist to use their own recording software to build public routes! You can find any type of videos you prefer.



Hey Jungleland, you should not have any issues seeing the huge catalog of routes on our platform as we currently have over 7000km of filmed video in our Augmented Reality library! The type of subscription you have does not affect what you see in the catalog. Feel free to use any beta versions which are now available for free.



Hey alex, please try adjusting the reality level on Rouvy! We also encourage you to follow the blog as we release updates!






Hey Stuart, because every rider is different and every ride has different ride characteristics we do not have route ride data to overlay onto the ride selection. What you can do is look up the live leaderboards and view power/speed data to judge which ‘ghost’ or virtual partners you can select on your route! Hope this helps!




Hey siggersd, if you haven’t tried Rouvy in awhile you should check out some routes after the smoothing update! It should help with any ‘brick wall; issues you may be running into. We’d also recommend calibrating your trainer or making sure you’ve chosen the correct trainer on Rouvy, as the read wattage output does not matter or change in regards to the software.
Thanks but I'm good for now as I subscribed to bigringvr for the year. It's always worked well for me and they have all the routes I could ask for.
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Old 10-15-20, 01:57 PM
  #42  
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I created an account just for the purpose of replying to this thread.

We are in October 2020, I have tried the app of the first time of my life, first climb I wondered what the hell was going on... So no the issue is not fixed. I am using an Elite Suito.

It's a pity because the video are well done, but there's definetly way too much resistance so I have to skip this app and won't even you use during the 13 free days left.

Link from the support to calibrate doesn't help, menu is not there on windows app, and on iphone it's not similar to the screenshot provided.
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Old 10-15-20, 05:29 PM
  #43  
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Rouvy Workouts and Rouvy AR both work as expected for me with my Wahoo Kickr 2018. I never use Rouvy to calibrate, always the Wahoo Fitness app. Suggest people with problems should calibrate using the software from their hardware manufacturer. Calibration settings are stored by the trainer, so it doesn't matter what software is used to do it.

Also should check that rider weight is correctly entered in any training app, since the default might be heavier and cause hills to be harder.

Having suggested all that, I think a lot of beginner riders don't actually understand what 5+% grades are supposed to feel like and are surprised how much harder it is to pedal...
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Old 10-15-20, 11:37 PM
  #44  
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Hello Surak,

I just calibrated before trying the app so I don't believe there's an issue with the calibration of my HT, my weight and height are both correctly definded.

It's not because you post a message for the first time on a forum that you are newbie on your bike, in the real life, and I don't think that all the people that are facing the same experience are necesseraly newbies. I am sure there are experienced people who felt the same problem while ridding their first climb.

Now, I have been through the different post and I noticed that someone said "Are you using Zwift at default trainer difficulty or 100%? Default is 50% so you're only doing half the gradient. Very few people can actually do alpe de zwift at 100% trainer difficulty".

I am very suprised to here that as well, so there might be something to look at on Zwift, never heard about this setting by the way and how to change that. I would be more than happy to test Zwift with 100% difficulty to gauge the difference between both app.

But honestly, the first climb on Zwift, I was on the lowest / easiest gear of my bike and could barely turn the pedals... There's a pass close to my place, the hardest part is at 14%, I felt the same at 7% in Rouvy.
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Old 10-16-20, 12:48 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by ameriaux View Post
But honestly, the first climb on Zwift, I was on the lowest / easiest gear of my bike and could barely turn the pedals... There's a pass close to my place, the hardest part is at 14%, I felt the same at 7% in Rouvy.
If climbs feel too hard on both Zwift and Rouvy, then the problem is with the trainer calibration, not the software. Or with how a trainer's resistance feels to someone new to smart trainers. BTW, trainers should typically be calibrated warm, meaning around 5-10 minutes with a few hard efforts.

I have ridden extensively on a number of apps - on Zwift I have the Tron bike as well as vEverested Alpe du Zwift on 100% difficulty, made World Champion in the last season of Rouvy after starting career mode in March, and tested FulGaz and RGT. I can say that other than the smoothness by which they change resistance, the same ballpark gradients have felt the same across all of them. I have never encountered a ramp in any of them, even the 20+% grades, where I cannot turn the pedals. I am not heavy nor more powerful than a slightly above average enthusiast, so my Kickr is nowhere near maxed out in providing resistance.
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Old 10-16-20, 01:32 AM
  #46  
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My bad, it will be very hard for anyone else who read this thread to understand my point... I actually meant "But honestly, the first climb on ROUVY, I was on the lowest / easiest gear of my bike and could barely turn the pedals...".

I should first give a try with zwift at 100% resistance to be able to compare apple with apple. I will let you know.

Interesting thread though.
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Old 10-18-20, 08:46 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
Rouvy Workouts and Rouvy AR both work as expected for me with my Wahoo Kickr 2018. I never use Rouvy to calibrate, always the Wahoo Fitness app. Suggest people with problems should calibrate using the software from their hardware manufacturer. Calibration settings are stored by the trainer, so it doesn't matter what software is used to do it.

Also should check that rider weight is correctly entered in any training app, since the default might be heavier and cause hills to be harder.

Having suggested all that, I think a lot of beginner riders don't actually understand what 5+% grades are supposed to feel like and are surprised how much harder it is to pedal...
OP here... I might have revisited Rouvy once since my initial post, but not finding the problem solved, it's been at least a year (or longer) since I tried.
I DEFINITELY know what a 5% gradient feels like, and many gradients well over that - I regularly attack a 17% near my house, and many 12-15% gradients in the hilly areas where I ride both solo and with groups. My experience with Rouvy was of a difficulty in excess of even the 15-plus percentage gradients when it indicated I was riding a 5% virtually. Many of the posters since my initial comment seem to be in agreement, with their set-ups. As alway, YMMV, but I can state definitively that it's not my observation that is in question, but rather the software-hardware interface or settings.
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Old 11-26-20, 05:29 PM
  #48  
arnostlobel
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I feel your pain

I am afraid I have to add the sentiment of the others’ here. Before I do, thought, let me add some facts. Rouvy is my first virtual cycling app I have ever used. I bought Saris H3 this fall and picked Rouvy to test it with. I calibrated the trainer with Saris’s own software. I have liked Rouvy from the get go. Installation was smooth, pairing with devices flawless. I like the GUI of the AR application, which I am running on a Win10 laptop. So far I’ve put in about a hundred miles since I started my free trial last week. Loved the videos, especially those from the Czech Republic, where I was born a half a century ago. So far, so good.

Except, the rides get unnaturally hard when in time trialing mode. They resistance is steady, the transitions smooth, no complains there; it’s only the resistance feels significantly harder than what I know it would feel in the real world. I have ridden a few hills in my cycling life. I have raced a couple of them too. I am not a novice rider. I am an average Cat4 for my age-group with the affinity for climbing rather than time trialing. I have ridden the real Stelvio, Gavia, and Mortirolo. The latter two on the same day. It would be a lie if I said it was easy, but was doable with 34/27 gearing. That simply does not happen in Rouvy!

I live in Boston, MA. While there are no steep hills in the close vicinity, the terrain is still quite rolling. On my low cadence days I would do my 15 mile commute (800 ft of elevation gain) in 52/16. I mean, it’s hard to push over some of the humps, but workable. Attempting the same in Rouvy would be but impossible! Once I get over 2% gradient in Rouvy, I have to shift to the small ring. Even riding on flats feels like work. I can typically settle to 52/17 or 52/18 on a real flat road and keep it for an hour. Obviously, I can set the “reality mode” in Rouvy to 70 or 50% to match “my” reality, but doing so would exclude me from participating in any Rouvy challenges, which require riders to be in time-trialing mode. Another "work-around" would be lowering my weight, but that would disqualify me from racing.

Today I performed yet another test. There is a New Hampshire ride available in Rouvy, a ride that I had ridden not long time ago. It’s only a 13 miles and I needed 1:11 on Rouvy, while in the real world I covered it in 0:59 and felt less tired, if I recall. Also, the real ride was the first leg of a 100 km ride, thus I had to pace myself conservatively. The difference is almost 20%, which is in fact very close to what I estimate the effort generally feels like in Rouvy.

So that is it. I want to like Rouvy, and I do like it except for the unrealistic realism and a few quirks in the GUI. I wish them success; I am a fan. I am also quite confident they will eventually fix everything, even the resistance issue, whatever it is. Either that or they provide some solution we, users can apply. However, I do not like the attitude of the Rouvy team telling us, users, it’s our own fault. I will not be subscribing just yet for that very reason. Instead, I will be evaluating other similar apps out there, BKool and BigRingVR in particular. To see what they feel like. Naturally, I intend to give Zwift a chance too. And sufferfest. Who knows, maybe I will return back to Rouvy after that. Everything’s possible.
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