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Cutting Out Sugar

Old 09-24-20, 08:52 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
When I went off white sugar entirely it became quite apparent to me that I am prone to using and needing sucrose as a drug and that it is, again for me, addicting. I've known this for nearly 45 years. The other sugars, at least the ones that existed then, did not and do not have that effect. I eat a pile of fruit every morning. I love honey. But I can go without with no issues at all (except riding when I need fuel).
For some people, white refined sugar is as addictive and toxic as heroin. Naturally derived sugars do not have the same effect, but all sugars are bad.
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Old 09-24-20, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Naturally derived sugars do not have the same effect, but all sugars are bad.

This is both an absurd and ridiculous statement and completely false by every conceivable definition of the word.
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Old 09-24-20, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Pemmican would be an excellent choice for a high calorie cyclists snack. Traditionally made from moose or bison meat it consists of dried and pulverized meat mixed with tallow and dried berries.
The voyageurs, who were no strangers to long and arduous days of extreme exertion, thrived on it.
Here is a youtube vid of how to make modern day pemmican. It doesnt look that difficult.
Hard to imagine a worse thing to eat on the bike. For over 20 years, I've been fueling with maltodextrin and whey protein on the bike on long rides and sports drinks on short rides. Works like a charm. On the bike, I can tolerate small quantities of fat, like in an ice cream bar, but that's it. I've never ridden with or personally even heard of a cyclist who tried to fuel with fat on the bike. Maybe they're out there and just don't do any hard rides, I don't know. If you're an example of such a rider, please post your palmares. Otherwise it's all BS. See my tag line.
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Old 09-24-20, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Pemmican would be an excellent choice for a high calorie cyclists snack. Traditionally made from moose or bison meat it consists of dried and pulverized meat mixed with tallow and dried berries.
The voyageurs, who were no strangers to long and arduous days of extreme exertion, thrived on it.
Actually eating on the bike, there are times when I can barely get myself to swallow energy chews. No way I could eat pemmican. At rest stops, I can eat more solid food, but power bars or equivalent (clif bars, though I can't eat them, as they're not GF) are about as chewy as I can go. Beyond that, I'd be choking it down.
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Old 09-24-20, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Hard to imagine a worse thing to eat on the bike. For over 20 years, I've been fueling with maltodextrin and whey protein on the bike on long rides and sports drinks on short rides. Works like a charm. On the bike, I can tolerate small quantities of fat, like in an ice cream bar, but that's it. I've never ridden with or personally even heard of a cyclist who tried to fuel with fat on the bike. Maybe they're out there and just don't do any hard rides, I don't know. If you're an example of such a rider, please post your palmares. Otherwise it's all BS. See my tag line.
People are different. Maybe it wouldn t work for you but perhaps you are not allergic to sugar. I haven't tried pemmican yet, but if it worked for the voyageurs who were undoubtedly working much longer and harder than your average cyclist, it would work for endurance cycling.
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Old 09-24-20, 12:42 PM
  #31  
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You need to adapt your metabolism to burning fat. It takes some time. I have gradually switched away from high carb sugary cycling food to more keto friendly options.
It definitely works.
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Old 09-24-20, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
People are different. Maybe it wouldn t work for you but perhaps you are not allergic to sugar. I haven't tried pemmican yet, but if it worked for the voyageurs who were undoubtedly working much longer and harder than your average cyclist, it would work for endurance cycling.
Ya know . . . It's a bit problematic to give advice about stuff you've never done yourself. Rather detracts from the impact, don't you think? Another good thing is to arm oneself with some facts. For instance voyageurs ate mostly dried peas: carbs 70%, protein 27%, fat 3%. https://nikkirajala.com/2016/02/23/w...voyageurs-eat/

The voyageurs of the interior, who couldn't get dried peas and corn did eat a lot of pemmican because it was available and dried peas weren't. One eats what's available. In our present day case, cyclists can fuel with whatever they want, and carbs are what they want because that's what works.

I don't know anyone who's allergic to sugar. I do know at least one sugar addict. She went 12-step, actually came to our house and confessed her addiction and etc. That was a few years ago. She's fatter than ever. Never exercised in her life that I can tell. 12- step is BS.

Some days I don't know why I bother. I guess it's a reaction to the BS which fills our feeds.
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Old 09-24-20, 01:30 PM
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Doesn't take much to make your body burn fat. It's doing it all the time. Not giving it carbohydrates just forces it to only burn fat. If you want to ride a bike, you can burn either carbs or fat or a combination of both. After two hours of Zone 4 and 5 riding you won't be going very fast if you only rely on fat sources.

Carbohydrates will let you replenish your glycogen stores quicker than fats while you are expending energy at a high rate. So if you ride long and fast, you need carbs while on the bike. If you are leisurely riding and less than 1.5 hours, you don't have to have anything. Most of us that aren't anorexic by the BMI scale have plenty of fat for the body to use. Why add more?
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Old 09-24-20, 02:47 PM
  #34  
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Its all about pemmican.

Montreal-based canoemen could be supplied by sea or with locally grown crops. Their main food was dried peas or beans, sea biscuit and salt pork. (Western canoemen called their Montreal-based fellows mangeurs de lard or 'bacon-eaters'.) In the Great Lakes some maize and wild rice could be obtained locally. By the time trade reached what is now the Winnipeg area, the pemmican trade developed. Métis would go southwest onto the prairie in Red River carts, slaughter buffalo, convert it into pemmican, and carry it north to trade at the North West Company posts. For these people on the edge of the prairie, the pemmican trade was as important a source of trade goods as was the beaver trade for the First Nations further north. This trade was a major factor in the emergence of a distinct Métis society. Packs of pemmican would be shipped north and stored at the major fur posts (Fort Alexander, Cumberland House, Île-à-la-Crosse, Fort Garry, Norway House and Edmonton House).
Voyageurs often rose as early as 2 am or 3 am. Provided that there were no rapids (requiring daylight for navigation) early in the day, they set off very early without breakfast. Sometime around 8:00 am they would stop for breakfast. Lunch, when it existed, was often just a chance to get a piece of pemmican to eat along the way. But they did stop for a few minutes each hour to smoke a pipe. Distance was often measured by "pipes", the interval between these stops. Between eight and ten in the evening, travel stopped and camp was made.[16] Voyageurs were expected to work 14 hours per day and paddle at a rate of 55 strokes per minute.[
It was a hard and arduous life fuelled mainly by fats and protein, not sugar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyageurs
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Old 09-24-20, 03:53 PM
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They weren't riding a bicycle over 3500 kilometers (2200 miles) at an average speed of 25 mph in 21 days. Different energy demands.

Last edited by Iride01; 09-24-20 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 09-24-20, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Pemmican would be an excellent choice for a high calorie cyclists snack. Traditionally made from moose or bison meat it consists of dried and pulverized meat mixed with tallow and dried berries.
The voyageurs, who were no strangers to long and arduous days of extreme exertion, thrived on it.
Here is a youtube vid of how to make modern day pemmican. It doesnt look that difficult.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GoyoO4G5Y8
What you fail to mention is that Voyageurs also ate tons of Bannock...If you don't know what Bannock is then study history and do some research...I made pemmican more than 25 years ago and tested it on wilderness trips. I used homemade beef jerky and beef tallow. It takes a lot of time to get adapted to it and used to it, it's an ideal survival food which will keep you going for a long time but I wouldn't use it as a fuel for bike training.
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Old 09-24-20, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord View Post
Its all about pemmican.
Go ride a hilly century fueling only on pemmican. Let us know how it goes.

Having spent some time living in the elements in the Arctic (for a month, in East Greenland, in my youth), I know very well that under those conditions, the body craves high fat foods. I remember sitting in camp at night, talking about how nice it would be to have a stick of butter. Also, about a mile way, there was a camp of native nomadic greenlanders living chiefly on seal blubber. But the demands of working out in the cold and staying warm are not the same as the energy output on a long tough bike ride.

You can keep posting on this subject, but I doubt that your single-theory-for-everything line is going to convince anybody.
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Old 09-26-20, 07:49 AM
  #38  
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I eat pretty Spartan. BF definitely less than 15%.

But treat myself to a mini Mounds bar after dinner every night ; )
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Old 09-26-20, 10:05 AM
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This is all off topic from the OP..........

Actually when you look into the hard and arduous life that our forefathers had and look into the diets, carbohydrates are plentiful. So the statement
It was a hard and arduous life fuelled mainly by fats and protein, not sugar.r
is pretty wrong. Carbohydrates from dried fruits, beans and peas were plentiful in their diets when available. The 1588 Royal Navy sailors were given a pound of hard tack a day and a gallon of beer. Both high in carbs.

When reading the wikipedia article, links in it and other history that give the diets of our rugged forefathers, they seemed to even use in great amounts what ever form of sugar was readily available. Honey, syrups from various trees and plants. You seldom find diets of the explorers using exclusively fats and proteins unless that was all they had becuase they were in barren places, like the Arctic or Antarctic. While in it's purist form, pemmican, which is a Native American creation, was mostly fat and protein, even the Native Americans would mix in whatever carbohydrates were around locally when it was prepared for a meal.
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Old 09-26-20, 10:49 AM
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I always go with the assumption that most people are not idiots. That's worked well for me.
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Old 09-26-20, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I always go with the assumption that most people are not idiots. That's worked well for me.
Ha! That's kind of funny, because my default assumption is pretty much the opposite!
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Old 09-26-20, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Ha! That's kind of funny, because my default assumption is pretty much the opposite!
You realize that it's noticeable. As my father-in-law the Army officer always said, you can't influence and antagonize at the same time. OTOH, some folks really aren't worth it. That's rare though, unless you're on FB. Depends on your goals.
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Old 09-26-20, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Ha! That's kind of funny, because my default assumption is pretty much the opposite!
For better or for worse, I'm with rubiksoval here. At times (not always), I try to temper it. I remind myself of a person from my past (who is long gone) whom I considered not particularly smart. This person made a habit of pointing out behaviors or statements of others that they thought reflected "stupidity". Yes, stupid people also think most people are stupid.
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Old 09-30-20, 12:49 PM
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Ha, fortunately I dint have a major sweet tooth.

I just like a few Hershey kisses or mini mounds bar after dinner. Caps off the meal nice.

But if I go out to dinner, love some cheesecake or cannolis or creme brûlée. A nice blackout cake is good. Or even just a couple of scoops of vanilla ice cream 🍨; )

Last edited by Hermes; 10-01-20 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 10-01-20, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CyclingBK View Post
Ha, fortunately I dint have a major sweet tooth.

I just like a few Hershey kisses or mini mounds bar after dinner. Caps off the meal nice.

But if I go out to dinner, love some cheesecake or cannolis or creme brûlée. A nice blackout cake is good. Or even just a couple of scoops of vanilla ice cream 🍨; )
I love vanilla ice cream. I basically don't let myself eat it any more. Between all the regular health concerns that are being discussed here and the fact that I became celiac in my 50s, there is a long sad list of foods I can no longer eat. Beer, bread, real pasta, fried rice....
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Old 10-07-20, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I love vanilla ice cream. I basically don't let myself eat it any more. Between all the regular health concerns that are being discussed here and the fact that I became celiac in my 50s, there is a long sad list of foods I can no longer eat. Beer, bread, real pasta, fried rice....
You might research dysbiosis and talk to a gastoenterologist.
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Old 10-07-20, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
You might research dysbiosis and talk to a gastoenterologist.
I have spent more time in the presence of gastroenterologists than I care to recall. The endoscopy was the worst. Talking to them was maybe not so traumatic, though not always more illuminating.
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Old 10-07-20, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I have spent more time in the presence of gastroenterologists than I care to recall. The endoscopy was the worst. Talking to them was maybe not so traumatic, though not always more illuminating.
Try a different doctor. Endoscopy has nothing to do with your issue. Find someone who responds positively to the word dysbiosis. That'll be a doctor who reads his literature. Many (most?) don't.
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Old 10-07-20, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Try a different doctor. Endoscopy has nothing to do with your issue. Find someone who responds positively to the word dysbiosis. That'll be a doctor who reads his literature. Many (most?) don't.
Thanks for the well-intentioned attempt at help, but

(1), you missed the plural. "gastroenterologists" means that I've seen more than one.
(2) endoscopy was indeed the tool I needed for a positive diagnosis of celiac sprue. How would you know otherwise?
(3) you don't know anything about the details of my afflictions and I didn't ask for your advice.

sorry, I'm not down with the "never mind the experts, I trust some guy on the internet" approach to medicine and science.

(Added later: Examine your biases please. it's far too late to assume that the Dr. is a "he")

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Old 10-22-20, 08:15 AM
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I am a long term (20+ month) Keto cyclist. Keto keeps me on an EXTREMELY low amount of carbs/sugars.

For me I generally dont bonk and have a theoretical limitless Z2 endurance pace, however this comes at the expense of top end aerobic. Low carbs keeps your energy "bursts" flat.

Ive recently learned that I can use sugars to feed prior to, and during longer rides, which allows me to get some burst, and my body lets me get back into Ketosis surprisingly quickly. This could be just my physiology, or due in part to the fact that I've been in Ketosis for so long.

Also, if you are still consuming carbs and sugars enough to not be in proper ketosis, while in such a demanding sport like cycling you will likely bonk and have a bad time.

Long story short, if you cut out the carbs in such a demanding sport/activity you must be very thoughtful as to how you go about it. If you're just casually riding, not as big of a deal, but if you're looking to optimize your performance there are a lot of things to consider to find out what works best for you.
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