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3 hr ride without drinking nor eating safe?

Old 01-03-21, 02:42 AM
  #76  
cjenrick
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3 hours?

how about 9 days and nights in a sweltering jungle without food or water?

with vipers and scorpions and constant patrols day and night looking to shoot you?

c'mon man, be real.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Bat_21_Bravo
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Old 01-03-21, 10:13 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by cjenrick View Post
3 hours?

how about 9 days and nights in a sweltering jungle without food or water?

with vipers and scorpions and constant patrols day and night looking to shoot you?

c'mon man, be real.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Bat_21_Bravo

Close! Here's what I face in my daily riding conditions in the streets of Manila:

I'd be lucky if those giant potholes are holding muddy water and not sewer water! Some members will probably realize why I'm training for road racing with a gravel bike with wide tires setup in road racing geometry. It's because of these roads.




Soldiers patrolling for Covid Lockdown rules. If they caught you with your mask down, you have to a pay an expensive fine or they beat you up or other disciplinary action. I avoid drinking water on the bike when soldiers are around:

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Old 01-03-21, 10:37 PM
  #78  
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drink before you're thirsty, eat before you're hungry
doesn't take much, maybe 100 calories per hour. allow your body to properly recover and build.
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Old 01-04-21, 12:32 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
drink before you're thirsty, eat before you're hungry
doesn't take much, maybe 100 calories per hour. allow your body to properly recover and build.
I do between 600 to 800 calories per hour, according to Strava anyway. Half an hour spent in traffic, half an hour in hills, mostly in climbing (1500 ft elevation gain). 80 to 90 F temperature.

I do it daily and don't bring food and water.

But lately, I've been bringing 1 bottle of water mixed with two tablespoons of milk powder. Not sure how much calories is that but it actually improved my performance. I definitely don't feel hungry after the ride if I do that.
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Old 01-04-21, 11:28 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
I do between 600 to 800 calories per hour.............
You burn 600 to 800 Calories or you eat/drink 600 to 800 Calories per hour?

I could never put that many Calories in my gut per hour. I'd probably be puking on the side of the road or at least not riding too fast. There is a limit to how much your body can absorb in one hour. Any thing more is typically viewed as not helpful and works against you while cycling or exercising at a high effort.
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Old 01-04-21, 06:42 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
You burn 600 to 800 Calories or you eat/drink 600 to 800 Calories per hour?

I could never put that many Calories in my gut per hour. I'd probably be puking on the side of the road or at least not riding too fast. There is a limit to how much your body can absorb in one hour. Any thing more is typically viewed as not helpful and works against you while cycling or exercising at a high effort.
It's Strava output so it's calories burned! I do around 45 minutes doing multiple circuits of the same hill and 15 minutes of very short sprint intervals in an hour.
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Old 01-06-21, 02:40 AM
  #82  
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I've never tested it, I always drink every hour of my bike ride. It seems to me that this is not very good for the body. And who tried to tell how you?
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Old 01-10-21, 10:54 AM
  #83  
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Just my opinion, but I'm a big fan of biking while dry fasted. I've done 3-5 hours in the morning with climbing(though I'm not fast). I bring food and water just in case, though I rarely have to use either. I dryfast cycle because it upregulates fat metabolism. ATP generation via the mitochondria's electron transport chain the specific step in which water is produced:

Fat is amazing. It stores energy, water(requires O2), fat soluble vitamins, and is a precursor for cholesterol/hence hormone production. When I hit a steep long hill, sweat will pour out of my face. We've all experienced this. Yet, I haven't drunk anything, why is this? You would think if I'm dehydrated I wouldn't sweat so much. Cause when you hit a hill you require more ATP generation. Extra ATP generation=extra free water generation. Excretion via exhalation and urine production becomes overwhelmed. Sweat is a way to get rid of some of this excess free water. Yes, it cools you down and it costs sodium, but it's not my legs that is generating the most sweat, which is where you would expect the most cooling action to occur. After long rides, I need to urinate a good amount, and it's pretty clear vs concentrated. I also interpret this to be due to excess free water generation that comes from long fat metabolizing activities.

When I work, I'll bike back and forth to work 9.5 mi one way with a 10-12 hour shift. I won't eat or drink the whole duration. I do this for wellness. It's simple and it's free. Let me be clear. I'm not trying to covert people into doing this. I like thinking about this and posting it is enjoyable for me. But I apologize if it triggers anyone which it seems to do.

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Old 01-12-21, 01:13 PM
  #84  
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You ride 3 to 5 hours without eating or drinking.
Yeah not the most prudent thing to do. You are training your body to ignore signs of dehydration.
It's also a huge stress on your kidneys, heart and other body processes.

You can loose up to 4% of your body weight in water, and your body can adapt. Many people walk around chronically dehydrated.
Loose much more than that, and your body will start to fail. Headaches, nausea, kidney damage, heat stroke, passing out...

Think of running a car without engine oil.


Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Just my opinion, but I'm a big fan of biking while dry fasted. I've done 3-5 hours in the morning with climbing(though I'm not fast). I bring food and water just in case, though I rarely have to use either.
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Old 01-13-21, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
You ride 3 to 5 hours without eating or drinking.
Yeah not the most prudent thing to do. You are training your body to ignore signs of dehydration.
It's also a huge stress on your kidneys, heart and other body processes.

You can loose up to 4% of your body weight in water, and your body can adapt. Many people walk around chronically dehydrated.
Loose much more than that, and your body will start to fail. Headaches, nausea, kidney damage, heat stroke, passing out...

Think of running a car without engine oil.
You may be right. Just a thought query. From an evolutionary perspective, before the advent of water storage technology containers, do you think our primate hunter gatherer ancestors were running back and forth multiple times(as many times as people chronically drink all day long) a day to natural water sources to hydrate?
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Old 01-13-21, 08:46 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post
You may be right. Just a thought query. From an evolutionary perspective, before the advent of water storage technology containers, do you think our primate hunter gatherer ancestors were running back and forth multiple times(as many times as people chronically drink all day long) a day to natural water sources to hydrate?
Back when Richard Leakey was leading archeological expeditions to Lake Turkana, it was the practice of the fossil hunting crew to disperse each morning to various sites, carrying only a little water. Two reasons for this: the weight and they simply didn't want to be distracted by taking care of their bodies. They were there for a limited time and wanted to work sunup to sundown. It was hot. When they returned to camp, they'd drink as much a a gallon of water before bed. Of course they'd also eat well, lots of game, so they got their electrolytes. Didn't seem to do them any harm. However, and it's a big however, they weren't exercising except for the walk to and from the sites. They mostly stayed in the spots where they were working.

Exercising in the heat is a very different thing. One can train for that to some extent, but the body has to cool itself with sweat, and we sweat a lot more when riding a bike than when we are relatively still. When we put out watts, we are burning calories and that generates a lot of heat that must be gotten rid of or we die of heatstroke. To make it short, yes one can water fast, but a cyclist can die of it. I've had a couple close calls and been lucky. I'm a lot more paranoid about hydration now than I was before those experiences.

That said, riding easy enough in cool enough temperatures that one is not particularly sweating is another story entirely. I have riding buddies who'll only drink 1/2 bottle of water on a hard 60 mile ride and do fine with it. Folks who do that tend to be slim and very strong riders.
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Old 01-14-21, 02:48 AM
  #87  
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People used to have 20 year lifespans, if they were lucky enough not to die from simple infections, lack of food and water or being eaten.
If you measure your health and welfare by the lowest rung of our evolutionary chart, than by all means, knock yourself out.

Originally Posted by burritos View Post
You may be right. Just a thought query. From an evolutionary perspective, before the advent of water storage technology containers, do you think our primate hunter gatherer ancestors were running back and forth multiple times(as many times as people chronically drink all day long) a day to natural water sources to hydrate?
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Old 01-14-21, 10:11 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Back when Richard Leakey was leading archeological expeditions to Lake Turkana, it was the practice of the fossil hunting crew to disperse each morning to various sites, carrying only a little water. Two reasons for this: the weight and they simply didn't want to be distracted by taking care of their bodies. They were there for a limited time and wanted to work sunup to sundown. It was hot. When they returned to camp, they'd drink as much a a gallon of water before bed. Of course they'd also eat well, lots of game, so they got their electrolytes. Didn't seem to do them any harm. However, and it's a big however, they weren't exercising except for the walk to and from the sites. They mostly stayed in the spots where they were working.

Exercising in the heat is a very different thing. One can train for that to some extent, but the body has to cool itself with sweat, and we sweat a lot more when riding a bike than when we are relatively still. When we put out watts, we are burning calories and that generates a lot of heat that must be gotten rid of or we die of heatstroke. To make it short, yes one can water fast, but a cyclist can die of it. I've had a couple close calls and been lucky. I'm a lot more paranoid about hydration now than I was before those experiences.

That said, riding easy enough in cool enough temperatures that one is not particularly sweating is another story entirely. I have riding buddies who'll only drink 1/2 bottle of water on a hard 60 mile ride and do fine with it. Folks who do that tend to be slim and very strong riders.
Thanks for that.
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Old 01-14-21, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
People used to have 20 year lifespans, if they were lucky enough not to die from simple infections, lack of food and water or being eaten.
If you measure your health and welfare by the lowest rung of our evolutionary chart, than by all means, knock yourself out.
You probably are right. Nonetheless, some people think biking 2 hours is a tremendous physical burden. Others think not eating after 3 hours is physiologically dangerous. I just don't think skipping water for 3-5 hrs is broaching some kind of life threatening event. But I readily believe I could be wrong.
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Old 01-14-21, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post
You probably are right. Nonetheless, some people think biking 2 hours is a tremendous physical burden. Others think not eating after 3 hours is physiologically dangerous. I just don't think skipping water for 3-5 hrs is broaching some kind of life threatening event. But I readily believe I could be wrong.
I guess it depends on whether or not you're riding 2 hours with the intent of developing power and speed, or you're riding two hours at the most leisurely pace possible for recreation, health, or dieting. Or somewhere in the middle.

It's completely wrong to suggest people should attempt to perform at a decent intensity for a decent duration (2+ or whatever your definition of decent is) without hydration or calories. It hampers your performance; if not on that day itself, on subsequent days.

Sure, it's certainly possible to train up to and give a max effort for 2ish hours or so without food or water (I'm again thinking elite marathoners here, though even then most seem to take a swig of something or a gel if available), but for day to day training?

So silly as to be borderline dumb.
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Old 01-14-21, 04:16 PM
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For some, 2 hours is a tremendous physical burden.
Not drinking water for 3-5hours can be a life threatening event.
For some, riding 250km at 350w avg is a tremendous physical stress that is impossible to maintain. For others, it's a day at the office.
These metrics have nothing to do with health and proper hydration.

Not hydrating doesn't make you tough. It doesn't improve your body processes.
The only things it does is help develop kidney stones, train you to ignore signs of dehydration, give your body no buffer and slow down any recovery or performance gains.
Yes, people pass out or die from dehydration all the time. It's very common, especially in the summer when your body has no buffer to the heat generated.

Some punters are under the mistaken viewpoint that pros don't drink much water because they watch races and see them with no bottles or tossing bottles at the end of races. Pros will drink at least one to two liters of water per hour during a race, and eat regularly. They constantly drink water off the bike, as should most people in general.


Originally Posted by burritos View Post
You probably are right. Nonetheless, some people think biking 2 hours is a tremendous physical burden. Others think not eating after 3 hours is physiologically dangerous. I just don't think skipping water for 3-5 hrs is broaching some kind of life threatening event. But I readily believe I could be wrong.
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Old 01-14-21, 05:04 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
For some, 2 hours is a tremendous physical burden.
Not drinking water for 3-5hours can be a life threatening event.
For some, riding 250km at 350w avg is a tremendous physical stress that is impossible to maintain. For others, it's a day at the office.
These metrics have nothing to do with health and proper hydration.

Not hydrating doesn't make you tough. It doesn't improve your body processes.
The only things it does is help develop kidney stones, train you to ignore signs of dehydration, give your body no buffer and slow down any recovery or performance gains.
Yes, people pass out or die from dehydration all the time. It's very common, especially in the summer when your body has no buffer to the heat generated.

Some punters are under the mistaken viewpoint that pros don't drink much water because they watch races and see them with no bottles or tossing bottles at the end of races. Pros will drink at least one to two liters of water per hour during a race, and eat regularly. They constantly drink water off the bike, as should most people in general.
I agree, something physiologically difficult for one subset of people may not be difficult at all for another subset of people. It just depends on what their body is adapted to. These adaptations can come from physical training. But I suspect that your metabolism can make adaptations based on one's consumption in food/water/timing/frequency/amount. Manipulating these factors are biohacks as is exercise. Whether the dryfasting hacks are beneficial is up for debate. But I would agree that withholding fluids under extreme situations(intense exercise and heat and in a prolonged manner) certainly can be harmful for most.
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Old 01-15-21, 03:20 AM
  #93  
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Doing without water for a 3hr+ effort can be a sketchy proposition, depending on intensity and other factors.

Can't imagine going without food would be dangerous. Could "bonk," sure, if running out of fuel. But that'd be it, I would think.


Back in the day, I used to swim hard in the ocean for hours, on many occasions without having water during the session. Didn't seem to suffer any ill effects, but I'm sure I was grossly dehydrated. Recall feeling a little "drained" occasionally, when doing that, but otherwise no issues. Clearly it was affecting me, but it didn't get bad.

Ran once extremely hard, distance training, for about 2.5hrs. Didn't have nearly enough water. Had dangerous ill-effects, that day.

Once rode a hard 65-miler with a competitive cyclist friend. Took plenty of water (but no food, IIRC), and had quite a bit of the water. But I but didn't suffer any problems.

Was extremely fit, back then. Had trained for years to get to the point I could work through most any conditions, time of the year, difficulty of effort. But since that level of training, I try very hard to never be short on water. Had a couple of instances where it was dangerous; don't ever want to get to that point again.
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Old 01-15-21, 01:05 PM
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While I understand you believe you cracked some kind of dietary code to improve performance,
your flawed logic sounds nonsensical.

It's like saying "Dryhacking my chain. The chain will adapt to no lubrication, and be more efficent without lube."
it's not a sliding scale.
Your body needs water, and frequently, to perform any and all functions at a healthy level. I can't believe I even need to say this.

Originally Posted by burritos View Post
I agree, something physiologically difficult for one subset of people may not be difficult at all for another subset of people. It just depends on what their body is adapted to. These adaptations can come from physical training. But I suspect that your metabolism can make adaptations based on one's consumption in food/water/timing/frequency/amount. Manipulating these factors are biohacks as is exercise. Whether the dryfasting hacks are beneficial is up for debate. But I would agree that withholding fluids under extreme situations(intense exercise and heat and in a prolonged manner) certainly can be harmful for most.
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Old 01-15-21, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
While I understand you believe you cracked some kind of dietary code to improve performance,
your flawed logic sounds nonsensical.

It's like saying "Dryhacking my chain. The chain will adapt to no lubrication, and be more efficent without lube."
it's not a sliding scale.
Your body needs water, and frequently, to perform any and all functions at a healthy level. I can't believe I even need to say this.
I didn't crack anything. People have been doing this for a millennia. (BTW, I'm not religious).Take ramadan for example. Hundreds of millions of people dry fast from dusk to dawn for a whole month. Health benefits have been studied through biomarkers and clinical outcomes I understand we are of the west and anything not happening in the west is automatically regarded skeptically. But if you are willing to take a peek:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2995774/

At the elite level consider Hakeem Olajuwon who won 2 NBA championships and an MVP while dryfasting.

https://theundefeated.com/features/h...-performances/

Granted he could have just been a remarkable human being, but according the the assertions made in this thread, he should have just folded, especially against the likes of Jordan, Barkley, Robinson and Ewing.

People who do this aren't dropping dead at a high clip. In fact, the chronic ailments from dietary excess and sedentary lifestyle improve. And, no these aren't people who are doing HIIT. But if dry fasting transiently improved health, I don't understand why the occasional HIIT would suddenly make them worse. It just depends if you're adapted to it.
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Old 01-15-21, 05:28 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post
I didn't crack anything. People have been doing this for a millennia. (BTW, I'm not religious).Take ramadan for example. Hundreds of millions of people dry fast from dusk to dawn for a whole month. Health benefits have been studied through biomarkers and clinical outcomes I understand we are of the west and anything not happening in the west is automatically regarded skeptically. But if you are willing to take a peek:


People who do this aren't dropping dead at a high clip. In fact, the chronic ailments from dietary excess and sedentary lifestyle improve. And, no these aren't people who are doing HIIT. But if dry fasting transiently improved health, I don't understand why the occasional HIIT would suddenly make them worse. It just depends if you're adapted to it.
Again with these horrendous examples.

Are the majority of people doing endurance sports during Ramadan? Hell, I know of students being exempted from tests and projects during Ramadan...

Context is everything.
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Old 01-15-21, 05:33 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post

At the elite level consider Hakeem Olajuwon who won 2 NBA championships and an MVP while dryfasting.

https://theundefeated.com/features/h...-performances/

Granted he could have just been a remarkable human being, but according the the assertions made in this thread, he should have just folded, especially against the likes of Jordan, Barkley, Robinson and Ewing. .
And more terrible examples.

There are 48 minutes to a game and for you to play 42 minutes of that 48 and not even be able to take a sip of water, that is just phenomenal,” Robert Horry once said.
But not all of Olajuwon’s performances while fasting were created equal. Most of the games in which Olajuwon observed the fast tipped off after sunset, when he was allowed to break the fast.
You'd think if it were so beneficial to his performance that he'd have fasted all year long... huh. Wonder why he didn't?
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Old 01-15-21, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
And more terrible examples.
You'd think if it were so beneficial to his performance that he'd have fasted all year long... huh. Wonder why he didn't?
I don't think he thought it was beneficial. I think he thought like most, that it was a burden. But if it was such a burden, he should not have been able to perform/compete at the highest level. Cause at that level, any slight disadvantage should be fatal for the competition. And I'm not arguing that being dryfasted is a superior state. Definitely not for performance. But if you're strongly fat adapted, it's not the fatally burdensome state that people are making it out to be And while Robert Horry hit a few important 3's and was a great support player, he never sniffed the MVP.

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Old 01-15-21, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Again with these horrendous examples.

Are the majority of people doing endurance sports during Ramadan? Hell, I know of students being exempted from tests and projects during Ramadan...

Context is everything.
No doubt many will not tolerate it. Many, if not most people, are adapted to constantly imbibing and eating food. Meaning like every several hours. They can't imaging withholding from either for even a few hours. But that ingestive behavior is not requisite for the functioning of life.
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Old 01-15-21, 06:59 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by burritos View Post
Just my opinion, but I'm a big fan of biking while dry fasted. I've done 3-5 hours in the morning with climbing(though I'm not fast). I bring food and water just in case, though I rarely have to use either. I dryfast cycle because it upregulates fat metabolism. ATP generation via the mitochondria's electron transport chain the specific step in which water is produced:

Fat is amazing. It stores energy, water(requires O2), fat soluble vitamins, and is a precursor for cholesterol/hence hormone production. When I hit a steep long hill, sweat will pour out of my face. We've all experienced this. Yet, I haven't drunk anything, why is this? You would think if I'm dehydrated I wouldn't sweat so much. Cause when you hit a hill you require more ATP generation. Extra ATP generation=extra free water generation. Excretion via exhalation and urine production becomes overwhelmed. Sweat is a way to get rid of some of this excess free water. Yes, it cools you down and it costs sodium, but it's not my legs that is generating the most sweat, which is where you would expect the most cooling action to occur. After long rides, I need to urinate a good amount, and it's pretty clear vs concentrated. I also interpret this to be due to excess free water generation that comes from long fat metabolizing activities.

When I work, I'll bike back and forth to work 9.5 mi one way with a 10-12 hour shift. I won't eat or drink the whole duration. I do this for wellness. It's simple and it's free. Let me be clear. I'm not trying to covert people into doing this. I like thinking about this and posting it is enjoyable for me. But I apologize if it triggers anyone which it seems to do.
I also do a lot of fasted riding, up to 200km rides

But I do drink water and supplement with salt liberally
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