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Birdy thread

Old 12-17-20, 04:14 PM
  #1451  
Jipe
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The headset is a classic Ahead headset the only difference is that its mounted upside down with the cap of the headset between the fork legs.

The usual stem bolts of the Ahead headset are the two bolts near the front fork folding lever.

The fork does what the stem does with a normal Ahead headset, the stem has the tube of the fork of a classic Ahead headset.

To adjust, you need to loosen the two bolts near the front fork release, then tighten the bolt in the center of the Ahead cap between the fork legs and tighten again the two bolts of the fork.

The chain drop problem was a known issue with the old style tensionner arm added to the Shimano tensionner or to a derailleur cage, the new style tensionner of the Birdy 3 around the bottom bracket is much better. All Birdy 3 use this new tensionner, also the Riese & Müller Birdy.
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Old 12-18-20, 12:12 PM
  #1452  
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Thanks.

1. It looks like the fork is OK (no play when pulling the brake and pushing the bike back and forth): The small issue I'm having seems to be due to the clamp. I can feel it moving a bit when pushing on either end of the handlebar: https://gofile.io/d/QOpmtM

2. After adding a front derailleur, what solution is there to keep the chain from falling off the chairing when folding?

3. Does someone know who makes this low-rise rear rack?

4. Since Birdies are pretty scarce around here, but I assume they must be a bit more common in Germany… is there a good site that advertises second-hand bikes? Considering the price Birdies are sold in Europe today, I'm willing to take the train and grab one if the price is right.

So many questions :-p

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Old 12-18-20, 03:13 PM
  #1453  
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The current chain tensioner mounted on all Birdy 3 from R&M and Pacific Cycles works with a double chain-ring and front derailleur: it was factory mounted on my Titanium Birdy that has from factory a compact 52-36 front cankset with a front derailleur (FSA SLK-light crankset and Shimano 105 front derailleur).

For Birdy and Birdy spare parts from Germany, you can look on Ebay Kleinanzeigen Deutschland.

The Birdy is less popular in Germany than in the past because Riese & Müller doesn't promote it much and most current R&M resellers are specialized in high end eBikes not in folding bikes.

The rack you show has the drawback of increasing the folded size.

Why not the folding rear rack ?
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Old 12-18-20, 08:05 PM
  #1454  
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Man i miss my birdy, but dont like its folding footprint.
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Old 12-19-20, 08:50 AM
  #1455  
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Originally Posted by Winfried
1. It looks like the fork is OK (no play when pulling the brake and pushing the bike back and forth): The small issue I'm having seems to be due to the clamp. I can feel it moving a bit when pushing on either end of the handlebar
The clamp is adjustable. Open the clamp, tighten it slightly which a hex key and socket, close the clamp, and try again. Don't tighten it so much that the clamp is difficult to close.
(In your video I also see some other small bolts, slightly different from mine, they seem to be there for keeping the clamp assempty together. Not sure how that is set up, but if any of them are loose you could try carefully tightening them.)

Also, it looks like your handlepost is of the height adjustable type, check that the clamp for that is tightly closed, too.

If none of this solves the problem, please check carefully for cracks. Worst case, something is about to break. Best of luck!
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Old 12-19-20, 07:22 PM
  #1456  
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About P40 Anniversary Birdy
Questions answered.

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Old 12-19-20, 10:35 PM
  #1457  
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Thanks for posting. What was cool is the CEO stating that the 4th generation Birdy will come out in 2025. Wish it was sooner but it will be interesting to speculate the changes they will enact and how much of the P40 design will carry over to the 4th generation.
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Old 12-20-20, 06:16 AM
  #1458  
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Originally Posted by Jipe
For Birdy and Birdy spare parts from Germany, you can look on Ebay Kleinanzeigen Deutschland. […] The rack you show has the drawback of increasing the folded size. Why not the folding rear rack ?
Thanks for the link.

Because I don't use paniers and prefer to keep my bag as low to the ground as possible.

Originally Posted by glye
The clamp is adjustable. Open the clamp, tighten it slightly which a hex key and socket, close the clamp, and try again. Don't tighten it so much that the clamp is difficult to close. (In your video I also see some other small bolts, slightly different from mine, they seem to be there for keeping the clamp assempty together. Not sure how that is set up, but if any of them are loose you could try carefully tightening them.) Also, it looks like your handlepost is of the height adjustable type, check that the clamp for that is tightly closed, too.
Thank for the tip. The clamp is as tight as could be, as is the stem. I'll have to live with it. No biggie.
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Old 12-20-20, 10:59 PM
  #1459  
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Curious what the frame number means on a Birdy?

"The first two digits for the year of production, from 00-99. The third and fourth digit represent the week of the year, from 01-52. The last four digits are the serial number of the lot, from 0001 up. This has been our numbering system for 40 years."
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Old 12-22-20, 06:15 AM
  #1460  
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I have a friend interested by he Rise & Müller Birdy and one question about the Birdy Touring with the Sunrace hub (which is the only remaining R&M Birdy with rear derailleur): is it possible to mount a standard Shimano/SRAM cassette on this hub ?

Or does it accept only the proprietary Sunrace cassette ?

There is very little information available on the web about this hub !

Nothing is said on the Sunrace website about the compatibility of their only hub (HBSX1 for disc brake, HBSX0 for rim brakes) and their 4 types of cassettes (CSSS) 10s and CSSX0 11s), seem the same hub accept 10s and 11s cassettes ?

Last edited by Jipe; 12-22-20 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 12-22-20, 07:20 AM
  #1461  
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Originally Posted by Jipe
I have a friend interested by he Rise & Müller Birdy and one question about the Birdy Touring with the Sunrace hub (which is the only remaining R&M Birdy with rear derailleur): is it possible to mount a standard Shimano/SRAM cassette on this hub ?

Or does it accept only the proprietary Sunrace cassette ?

There is very little information available on the web about this hub !

Nothing is said on the Sunrace website about the compatibility of their only hub (HBSX1 for disc brake, HBSX0 for rim brakes) and their 4 types of cassettes (CSSS) 10s and CSSX0 11s), seem the same hub accept 10s and 11s cassettes ?
The sunrace hub which accepts 9t cassettes fits only these special sunrace cassettes. Both 10 and 11 speed fit, I have used both. (The old shimano capreo cassettes MAY fit, there is some indication the hub is a clone of those, but they are obsolete anyway.) It will NOT fit standard shimano/sram cassettes. It will also NOT fit sram xd cassettes.

It is also a weak hub in my experience, I can not recommend it for strong and/or heavy riders.
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Old 12-22-20, 12:10 PM
  #1462  
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In case someone's interested in the low-rise rear rack sold with Birdies some years ago, it's no longer made and R&M has none in stock.

https://www.bikeforums.net/21838614-post1452.html
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Old 12-22-20, 01:26 PM
  #1463  
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Multi-S has also a non folding rear rack.

But its heavy.

Not mounting the inline skate wheels and removing the omnidirectional system will reduce the weight but i am afraid that it will remain heavy.

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Old 12-22-20, 03:00 PM
  #1464  
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Thanks for the tip. Heavy, ugly, and expensive (£171 for just a rack!) :-/
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Old 12-23-20, 04:31 AM
  #1465  
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Originally Posted by glye
The sunrace hub which accepts 9t cassettes fits only these special sunrace cassettes. Both 10 and 11 speed fit, I have used both. (The old shimano capreo cassettes MAY fit, there is some indication the hub is a clone of those, but they are obsolete anyway.) It will NOT fit standard shimano/sram cassettes. It will also NOT fit sram xd cassettes.

It is also a weak hub in my experience, I can not recommend it for strong and/or heavy riders.
SRAM XD/XDR is a totally other concept than the classic Shimano freewheel and also the Campagnolo freewheel.

But the Capreo, Moulton, Campagnolo N3W and I think this Sunrace use all the same idea: the part of the freewheel close to the spokes where the biggest cogs are located remain classic. But the extremity where the smallest cogs come has a smaller section to allow the 10 or 9 teeth cog. Campagnolo has an adapter that allow the use of the classic Campagnolo cassettes on the N3W freewheel.

Therefore my question if it is really impossible to mount a classic cassette on the Sunrace freewheel.

I read the problem you had with this Sunrace rear hub, but this is the only remaining derailleur option for the R&M Birdy.
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Old 12-23-20, 09:04 AM
  #1466  
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Originally Posted by Jipe
But the Capreo, Moulton, Campagnolo N3W and I think this Sunrace use all the same idea: the part of the freewheel close to the spokes where the biggest cogs are located remain classic. But the extremity where the smallest cogs come has a smaller section to allow the 10 or 9 teeth cog. Campagnolo has an adapter that allow the use of the classic Campagnolo cassettes on the N3W freewheel.

Therefore my question if it is really impossible to mount a classic cassette on the Sunrace freewheel.
Aha, then I see what you mean. I still have the sunrace hub, but not right here. Early January I can try to slip a standard cassette on the inner part. Then we'll know if that is the same. We'd still need an adapter to fit the outer part of the cassette.
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Old 12-23-20, 04:46 PM
  #1467  
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On the Moulton proprietary hub made for the Moulton 10-28 or 10-32 proprietary cassette it seems to be possible to mount a single piece Campagnolo cassette.

The lockring used for the Moulton cassette is a standard Campagnolo locknut fastened with the standard Campagnolo tool.
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Old 12-29-20, 03:53 PM
  #1468  
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I need to test-ride a Birdy bike before submitting an order for one.
I live in the northeast US; I'm willing to travel a little bit to see one of these bikes in person.
BFold is out of stock, so unfortunately, there are no stocked Birdy bikes I'm able to test.
Reason for testing is so I can see if the bike works for me, before committing and placing an order.
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Old 01-10-21, 04:21 PM
  #1469  
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Originally Posted by Jipe
But the Capreo, Moulton, Campagnolo N3W and I think this Sunrace use all the same idea: the part of the freewheel close to the spokes where the biggest cogs are located remain classic. But the extremity where the smallest cogs come has a smaller section to allow the 10 or 9 teeth cog. Campagnolo has an adapter that allow the use of the classic Campagnolo cassettes on the N3W freewheel.

Therefore my question if it is really impossible to mount a classic cassette on the Sunrace freewheel.
I have tested to put an old 9-speed cassette of the classic type on the Sunrace hub. Pictures at https://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnst...h/50021529378/, scroll down.

The spline pattern is the same. The lower 6 cogs of the 9-speed cassette engage the splines. The rest have no support. But with a one-piece cassette, and a custom lockring, it might be possible to make it work.

The Sunrace lockring has threads on the inside, and the classic kind has them on the outside. The diameter is obviously very different. The Sunrace lockring requires a special tool - the Shimano Capreo tool works, which is why some suggest the Sunrace hub is a Capreo clone. I don't know.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=shi...ages&ia=images

The custom lockring required to make this work should probably include a cylindrical part to stabilise the outer cassette, and on top of that, a threaded lockring which is wide enough to support an 11t outer cog. This likely means a different kind of tool interface is needed.
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Old 01-10-21, 04:55 PM
  #1470  
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Thanks for doing the test.

The problem is actually the lockring !

As explained, Moulton used a similar thick to put a 10 teeth cog on a proprietary modified Campagnolo freewheel but could keep the standard Campagnolo lockring and the standard Campagnolo tool. Maybe because the smallest cog is bigger, 10 teeth vs. 9 teeth ?

A custom big washer between the Sunrace lockring and cassette could maybe do the job ?
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Old 01-11-21, 01:24 AM
  #1471  
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Originally Posted by Jipe
Thanks for doing the test.

The problem is actually the lockring !

As explained, Moulton used a similar thick to put a 10 teeth cog on a proprietary modified Campagnolo freewheel but could keep the standard Campagnolo lockring and the standard Campagnolo tool. Maybe because the smallest cog is bigger, 10 teeth vs. 9 teeth ?

A custom big washer between the Sunrace lockring and cassette could maybe do the job ?
Maybe. The problem is this extra washer would make the whole cassette assembly wider, and there is very little margin here before the lockring either doesn't have enough thread to screw on securely, or rubs against the dropout. Maybe, maybe not.

I guess, if you're considering this attempt, and you already have the kind of one-piece cassette you need, then you may as well try it. Best case, it works. Worst case, you replace the Sunrace hub with a normal one. Not an enormous expense.
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Old 01-11-21, 03:58 AM
  #1472  
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As said, the question is for a friend of mine who is hesitating to buy a R&M Birdy Touring with Sunrace hub+cassette because he is afraid of the future availability of the Sunrace proprietary cassette.

I converted my Birdy to an XDR freehub.
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Old 01-11-21, 05:36 AM
  #1473  
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Right. Future availability is a risk. Even todays availability is very limited, I had to order from USA. That means slow delivery and shipping cost may be high. The cost of the cassette is also fairly high (though likely less than a one-piece cassette). In addition to that is the weakness of the hub. So many reasons to avoid it, except if planned to rebuild it anyway. In that case, one could choose whichever R&M Birdy variant is cheapest - or whichever has the best cost-to-resale value of the parts to be replaced. That might be the 8-speed IHG variant, at least if one plans to go 11-speed or higher, and have to replace derailer and shifter anyway.

I agree with XDR, either that or IHG. It would be good for R&M to switch to that too. It allows both road and mtb (with adapter) cassette variants. The SRAM 10t cassettes are easily available, including some cheaper ones. And other brands provide compatible 9t variants. It's a more customer friendly solution than the Sunrace.
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Old 01-11-21, 09:57 AM
  #1474  
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R&M Birdy are already expensive, if the customer needs to rebuild a rear heel with an XDR hub (which aren't cheap), it will become quite expensive.

Did you try to order a new Sunrace cassette from a R&M dealer ?

I tried to order some parts from R&M dealers in Belgium and The Netherlands and for spare parts, R&M asks for the R&M frame number of the Birdy... which I do not have since I have a Pacific Cycles titanium Birdy (I was looking for a 32 spokes Birdy disc front hub, I could only find the Hubsmith Birdy disc front hub which is 24 or 28 spokes).

Last edited by Jipe; 01-11-21 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 01-11-21, 10:42 AM
  #1475  
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I tried my Norwegian R&M dealer, they couldn't deliver anything. I didn't really expect it since I was modifying the bike, not replacing a worn part (going from 10 to 11 speed).
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