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Mystery frame. 50's? Nervex? England A&P? unusual serial number

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Mystery frame. 50's? Nervex? England A&P? unusual serial number

Old 07-06-11, 05:35 PM
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Mystery frame. 50's? Nervex? England A&P? unusual serial number

i've been looking for a 1 size smaller frame with some character to build a townie/light duty porteur style/grocery getter type.

i was watching this on eBay with no real intention of bidding, but at the last minute i threw out a bid and won. i had some reservation due to the seller claiming some possible damage to the top tube.

i laid a straight edge in every which direction to try and find said hump and cannot find anything. checked all tubes and nothing. the only thing might be that the top tube has a 'sag' to it in the center, however i could not pass a credit card between the straight edge and tube so i'm not too worried. also, this is the original fork with matching serial number so any frontal impact causing damage to the top tube would surely have taken the fork out with it.

anyway, it will be perfect for my needs and i absolutely LOVE the Nervex lugs, the detailing and sharp edges is to die for!

english thread bottom bracket and headset
Nervex lugs and bottom bracket shell
seat post diameter is 26.4mm

possibly fully chromed at some point, headlugs, entire fork and rear stays/drops are definitely chromed

high-res pictures here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexjri...th/5909935317/

serial number on fork and BB is 95112 with a 7 below it (what's all the other gobbledygook beside the serial? angles and such for the BB?)


IMG_1284 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1297 by shnibop, on Flickr

tubing 'Made in England' by who? A&P A?


IMG_1285 by shnibop, on Flickr

anyone recognize this fork crown?


IMG_1294 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1296 by shnibop, on Flickr





IMG_1293 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1295 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1291 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1289 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1287 by shnibop, on Flickr


i'd love to know:

who made the frame?
the era?
what kind of tubing?


also, are solid axle/wing nut style axles narrower in diameter than later quick release style hollow axles? i tried to throw a loose Campagnolo Tipo hub in the rear drop outs, the axle will fit but takes an amount of force that would indicate that it's probably not intended to fit this style of axle. can i swap solid axles for the QR axles easily enough? eBay the source for such things? i wanted to build this up with parts i already have, but perhaps a completely different setup would be a better option. not looking to do a period correct build by the way.
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Old 07-06-11, 05:43 PM
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Accles & Pollock tubing.

I'm not quite sure, but it looks similar to a Freddie Grubb. It's missing the requisite headbadge holes, though.

-Kurt
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Old 07-06-11, 05:43 PM
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A&P is Accles & Pollock, a competitor of Reynolds and acquired by Tube Investments in 1919.

In the early 1960s, there were 11 companies in the steel tube division of Tube Investments, including Accles & Pollock and Reynolds Tube Co. Ltd. (see companies in the red box below).

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Last edited by Scooper; 07-06-11 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 07-06-11, 06:01 PM
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You sure don't see ads like that anymore.
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Old 07-06-11, 06:13 PM
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Looks like a nice frame!

My Fothergill has a similar accles & pollock stamping on the steerer tube, but the traces of the tubing decal on the seat tube were consistent with the size and shape of a Reynolds 531 decal. I don't know any other way to tell the tubings apart (the weight of the frame is consistent with 531, but Kromo wouldn't be different). I put a 531 decal on it.

Is there only one shifter boss? That's a 50's thing. It'll probably fit a Simplex or Cyclo Benelux shifter. A good way to use that is with Sturmey Archer AW hub with two cogs and a derailleur; this gives six evenly spaced gears.
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Old 07-07-11, 01:21 AM
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Super sweet frame? How about a full body shot? Lol.
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Old 07-07-11, 01:28 AM
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That really is a great looking frame.
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Old 07-07-11, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Looks like a nice frame!

My Fothergill has a similar accles & pollock stamping on the steerer tube, but the traces of the tubing decal on the seat tube were consistent with the size and shape of a Reynolds 531 decal. I don't know any other way to tell the tubings apart (the weight of the frame is consistent with 531, but Kromo wouldn't be different). I put a 531 decal on it.

Is there only one shifter boss? That's a 50's thing. It'll probably fit a Simplex or Cyclo Benelux shifter. A good way to use that is with Sturmey Archer AW hub with two cogs and a derailleur; this gives six evenly spaced gears.
1 shifter boss. btw, your Fothergill is a real inspiration, i will be PMing you with questions


Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
Super sweet frame? How about a full body shot? Lol.


IMG_1286 by shnibop, on Flickr
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Old 07-07-11, 01:40 AM
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Wow. What size? TT length?
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Old 07-07-11, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Southpaw View Post
You sure don't see ads like that anymore.
. . . From the days when people could/would read.
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Old 07-07-11, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
. . . From the days when people could/would read.
. . . From the days when companies were hiring.
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Old 07-07-11, 08:45 AM
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I was watching that on ebay, looks like a nice frame. Damage concerned me.

Don't know why, but fork crown looks Italian to me...
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Old 07-07-11, 09:54 AM
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Beautiful and full of potential.
I really like how you won't have to listen to everyone wailing to you to leave the finish original.
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Old 07-07-11, 11:10 AM
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[QUOTE=dbakl;12892361

Don't know why, but fork crown looks Italian to me...[/QUOTE]

the crown is definitely made for Imperial pattern blades (like domestic Reynolds) and is either cast or forged...not likely Italian.
I can't seem to find Milremo catalog scans anywhere on the Interwebs, today, but I'd guess this is either one of those (read Bocama made for Ron Kit) or a Vagner. So I'd say "French". It has a slight resemblance to another FR make: one of the Nervex Super Legere patterns, but those were supposedly welded-up crowns, not forged.
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Old 07-07-11, 06:53 PM
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thanks for all the feedback so far guys/gals!

i checked around on the Freddie Grubb possibility, however i don't think that's what this is. there are quite a few similarities but also some differences in details that were consistent in the confirmed F.G. frames, my frame lacked those certain details. also, i checked inside the head tube and have since sanded some of the paint... there was/are no head badge holes.

i've also sanded through the green, then the brown/primer layers to try and find any remnants of decals on the main triangle tubes, there are no longer signs of decals or original paint color.

however, there is this metallic candy pink color on the fixed cup side of the BB, around the lugs of the BB, inside the BB on the ends of the chain stay tubes and on the back of seat lug (all the hard to reach spots perhaps, DIY painter got lazy?). i believe this would be the original color although this doesn't narrow down the frame builder obviously/unfortunately.



IMG_1300 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1303 by shnibop, on Flickr

IMG_1304 by shnibop, on Flickr

any more incite?
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Old 07-07-11, 07:05 PM
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No way that bike was originally pink. Until the 80's, pink was a girl's color.

You want to trade that beauty for something in the "old garage"? Lol.
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Old 07-07-11, 07:29 PM
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Looks more like the basecoat for a Schwinn-style "flamboyant," semi-transparent red color.

-Kurt
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Old 07-07-11, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
the crown is definitely made for Imperial pattern blades (like domestic Reynolds) and is either cast or forged...not likely Italian.
I can't seem to find Milremo catalog scans anywhere on the Interwebs, today, but I'd guess this is either one of those (read Bocama made for Ron Kit) or a Vagner. So I'd say "French". It has a slight resemblance to another FR make: one of the Nervex Super Legere patterns, but those were supposedly welded-up crowns, not forged.
Well, here's one Milremo scan, but the crowns don't look quite like what is on that frame:

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Old 07-07-11, 10:10 PM
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true, and thanks for that scan. Ever see a forged/cast Vagner (or any other) crown with letters and numbers in the underside like the OP's?
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Old 07-07-11, 11:58 PM
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My usual response to the "help me ID this" threads is, "I don't know, but it sure is nice!"

And it applies here.

Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
No way that bike was originally pink. Until the 80's, pink was a girl's color.
Not true. In the early 20th century, pink was for boys and blue was for girls.

I have more shirts in pink than any other color.
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Old 07-08-11, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
My usual response to the "help me ID this" threads is, "I don't know, but it sure is nice!"

And it applies here.



Not true. In the early 20th century, pink was for boys and blue was for girls.

I have more shirts in pink than any other color.
That's with sirts. Not a steel riding machine. Don't get me wrong, it's pink all the way. I have had 4 pink/yellow Ironman bikes.
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Old 07-08-11, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I have more shirts in pink than any other color.
Well, that settles it for once and for all.
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Old 07-08-11, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Well, that settles it for once and for all.
See, now you know me completely!

I was riding my bike in Maplewood a couple of years ago, wearing a pink polo shirt, and someone leaned out of the car she was riding in and yelled, "Nice shirt ... QUEER!"

I was perplexed, but when I retold the story on maplewoodonline.com, people got upset. This is supposed to be one of the most gay-friendly towns.
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Old 07-08-11, 09:25 AM
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Her problem if any, not yours.

My wife just called me from Target asking me if I'd wear plaid shorts. I said, if you think I'll wear them, I'll wear them. She may regret this, but I won't be bothered one way or nother.
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Old 07-08-11, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
See, now you know me completely!

I was riding my bike in Maplewood a couple of years ago, wearing a pink polo shirt, and someone leaned out of the car she was riding in and yelled, "Nice shirt ... QUEER!"

I was perplexed, but when I retold the story on maplewoodonline.com, people got upset. This is supposed to be one of the most gay-friendly towns.
In Italy, you see lots of men wearing pink shirts. They look great with dark hair and olive complexion. I personally assume that a guy in a pink shirt is a very confident guy, gay or straight.
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