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Regarding tires . . .

Old 09-30-17, 08:08 AM
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sfh
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Regarding tires . . .

So I'm totally new to this. I've been in the process of looking for a new road bike because I bought a CX bike a few years ago as a do-it-all. But instead of rushing out to buy, I decided I should actually race cyclocross since that what the bike is for. It's a CAADX Tiagra with canti brakes.

I did my first race last weekend. Conditions were dry, but I found my back wheel especially slipping all over the place. I was running at 35psi in the stock Sammy Slick tires (700x35c). Any recommendations on other tires for racing? Wondering if the Sammy Slicks are just too slick to have a good grip on a course.

Thanks.
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Old 09-30-17, 09:59 AM
  #2  
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Originally Posted by sfh
So I'm totally new to this. I've been in the process of looking for a new road bike because I bought a CX bike a few years ago as a do-it-all. But instead of rushing out to buy, I decided I should actually race cyclocross since that what the bike is for. It's a CAADX Tiagra with canti brakes.

I did my first race last weekend. Conditions were dry, but I found my back wheel especially slipping all over the place. I was running at 35psi in the stock Sammy Slick tires (700x35c). Any recommendations on other tires for racing? Wondering if the Sammy Slicks are just too slick to have a good grip on a course.

Thanks.
I'm ignorant too - but have been studying lately.
35c means 35mm wide - right?
What are your gears?

My guess is not enough tread in the center if this it the tire https://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Samm...ds=sammy+slick. That is more of a sprinter/flat course design.
The "mud" tires have more knobs in the middle.

Lower pressure would bring more of those side knobs onto the ground.
35psi on a 35mm wide is a reason tubulars would be a good application here. I've decided to try 33mm wide tubulars for the kid and hill run under 30PSI, maybe as low as 20PSI - time will tell. And getting mud/stud on crown tires.
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Old 09-30-17, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge
I'm ignorant too - but have been studying lately.
35c means 35mm wide - right?
What are your gears?
Yes. 35mm

My chainrings are 34/46 and cassette is 12-28.

My guess is not enough tread in the center if this it the tire https://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Samm...ds=sammy+slick. That is more of a sprinter/flat course design.
The "mud" tires have more knobs in the middle.
Yeah -- those are the tires. They seem like a great multi-surface or commuter tire. They're nice gravel/commuter tires, I guess, but during the race, I really felt like I'd reached their limit. Mud would be a disaster, I think. I know there are 100s of difference CX tires out there, so my initial post might be tough to answer.

I'll try something with knobs in the middle (like Cycle X King and the like) and then keep a set of road tires for summer cruising.

Last edited by sfh; 09-30-17 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-30-17, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sfh
So I'm totally new to this. I've been in the process of looking for a new road bike because I bought a CX bike a few years ago as a do-it-all. But instead of rushing out to buy, I decided I should actually race cyclocross since that what the bike is for. It's a CAADX Tiagra with canti brakes.

I did my first race last weekend. Conditions were dry, but I found my back wheel especially slipping all over the place. I was running at 35psi in the stock Sammy Slick tires (700x35c). Any recommendations on other tires for racing? Wondering if the Sammy Slicks are just too slick to have a good grip on a course.

Thanks.
I'm partial to Clement. This season I have a PDX on the front and MXP on the rear. I like tires with some bite, even if it's dry out.

The MXP is new for me this season, and so far so good. There's been a wide range of conditions in the 3 races I've put on this set up so far. The rear slips a little here and there, but in spots on the course where you'd expect it to (i.e. muddy off cambers, leaning in on grassy turns, etc).

Once the rains really settle in and things get extra slick (which will be in like 2 weeks), I'll put another PDX on the rear.
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Old 09-30-17, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by justin1138
I'm partial to Clement. This season I have a PDX on the front and MXP on the rear. I like tires with some bite, even if it's dry out.

The MXP is new for me this season, and so far so good. There's been a wide range of conditions in the 3 races I've put on this set up so far. The rear slips a little here and there, but in spots on the course where you'd expect it to (i.e. muddy off cambers, leaning in on grassy turns, etc).

Once the rains really settle in and things get extra slick (which will be in like 2 weeks), I'll put another PDX on the rear.
Can you link to the PDX please.
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Old 09-30-17, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
Can you link to the PDX please.
sure!

PDX Tubular | Clement Cycling, Cyclocross Tires, Adventure Tires, Mountain Bike Tires, Road Bike Tires

it's your basic mud tire, comparable to something like the Challenge Limus.

You're gluing up tubular's for your son, yeah? If you're only setting up one pair of wheels (for now), consider the weather/environment he'll be racing in.

Here's a real basic primer on the different cross tires out there.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/choose-ti...oss-cross-race

I'd also recommend talking to the locals to find out what works for people racing in your area.
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Old 09-30-17, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by justin1138
sure!

PDX Tubular | Clement Cycling, Cyclocross Tires, Adventure Tires, Mountain Bike Tires, Road Bike Tires

it's your basic mud tire, comparable to something like the Challenge Limus.

You're gluing up tubular's for your son, yeah? If you're only setting up one pair of wheels (for now), consider the weather/environment he'll be racing in.

Here's a real basic primer on the different cross tires out there.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/choose-ti...oss-cross-race

I'd also recommend talking to the locals to find out what works for people racing in your area.
That is a good looking tire.
I'm beginning to get it. You need a wheel set for everything.
What might be good in mud is squishy on dry. As junior will race in CO there is everything. From the wet west side to dry areas. And he travels. So "local" only kinda exists.
I'm a gear head. I think 80% of this is for me, just because I like cool parts. I know I'm way ahead of myself (or him) but trying to glean as much as I can.
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Old 09-30-17, 06:01 PM
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I usually run a mxp rear as well with a mud front. That will usually work in most conditions so you dont have to worry about changing tires. I also run tubular so i can run lower pressure for racing. I weigh 155-160 and I can run as low as 24 in the front and 28 in the back if the track is fairly smooth.
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Old 09-30-17, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
That is a good looking tire.
I'm beginning to get it. You need a wheel set for everything.
What might be good in mud is squishy on dry. As junior will race in CO there is everything. From the wet west side to dry areas. And he travels. So "local" only kinda exists.
I'm a gear head. I think 80% of this is for me, just because I like cool parts. I know I'm way ahead of myself (or him) but trying to glean as much as I can.
yeah, it's definitely possible to have multiple wheelsets for multiple conditions. I haven't gotten into tubulars yet, but I have started to acquire lots of clinchers that only come out of the basement in the fall...
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Old 09-30-17, 08:56 PM
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Clement PDX, Clement MXP and Challenge Limus or Baby Limus.

The Sammy Slicks pretty much suck at everything. They do roll fast though, but other than that the side knobs are squirmy on gravel and don't hook enough on grass or anything else.
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Old 10-01-17, 03:20 PM
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The Sammy's look like a kind of filetread. Those are used in CX in dry firm conditions. But even so I think they're known to slide more in turns. They're just faster everywhere else. Ppl have fun mastering the increased skill needed. But perhaps some filetreads hook up better than others. (I've raced a few yrs now and am just starting to get into filetreads. I haven't yet dared to race on them. Only a few practices -- and definitely they slide around more. And I have famous ones.)

Most CXers use an allround medium knob tire and that works fine for everything. Just inflate more for firm smooth-ish dry conditions.

Spending more on sweet supple clincher CX tires lets you run lower PSI. As does running tubeless. Tubeless might be the biggest recent gamechanger. Then there's running wider tires like around 40mm so give you more cush. Nobody regulates tires in amateur CX (the 'rule' is 33 but who cares). CX can be awful harsh and bumpy so why not just get a sweet but wider tire for less misery, if it fits your frame.

Tubies are the nicest and that's what I use. They feel like a secret weapon but I haven't tried tubeless. I suppose tubeless is getting close. I have a cheap bike and nice tires. I really like XC skiing and these tires give me a cushier feel that is slightly closer to skiing. It's fun doing a kind of biking where keeping a good 'feel' on the trail-texture is impt. Tubies are a pain to change around tho and need to be refreshed each year.
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Old 10-01-17, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffOYB
The Sammy's look like a kind of filetread. Those are used in CX in dry firm conditions. But even so I think they're known to slide more in turns. They're just faster everywhere else. Ppl have fun mastering the increased skill needed. But perhaps some filetreads hook up better than others. (I've raced a few yrs now and am just starting to get into filetreads. I haven't yet dared to race on them. Only a few practices -- and definitely they slide around more. And I have famous ones.)

Most CXers use an allround medium knob tire and that works fine for everything. Just inflate more for firm smooth-ish dry conditions.

Thanks. Yes, I would describe them as a filtered, now that I know what that means! I've raced exactly once. I slid out a lot on the turns, and the course had just one reasonably straight portion where I guess I got some speed. Nothing really to compare it to. The Sammy's have probably 1000 miles of road riding on them. The side knobbies are still there, but the center tread is probably pretty well worn.

I think, based on this thread, I'll give the Clement MXP a try. I'll probably get a set of road tires to use in the summer in the mean time too.
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Old 10-02-17, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by justin1138
yeah, it's definitely possible to have multiple wheelsets for multiple conditions. I haven't gotten into tubulars yet, but I have started to acquire lots of clinchers that only come out of the basement in the fall...
I posted in another thread, super excited that it appears (trx not done) we will have 4 wheel sets. Two are tubular alloy, so will have best of each.
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Old 10-02-17, 10:41 AM
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@sfh Another vote for Clement MXP's.

I practiced a ton on our local course – which is fast with flowy turns that are mostly dry, loose dirt – with the Clement LAS (looks a lot like the Sammy Slicks). I definitely had to think hard about cornering and ate sh** a few times.

The second I set up MXP's tubeless on my bike it was night and day. I felt way more confident in the corners. Since then I've done six races on them and can't complain at all. Had one fully burp and deflate on a pre-ride but it went right back on and sealed with a floor pump.
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Old 10-02-17, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Carcosa
@sfh Another vote for Clement MXP's.

I practiced a ton on our local course – which is fast with flowy turns that are mostly dry, loose dirt – with the Clement LAS (looks a lot like the Sammy Slicks). I definitely had to think hard about cornering and ate sh** a few times.
Thanks. Ordered the MXPs last night.

I'm new to the sport, but even at that I just didn't have any confidence in turns as I could feel that back wheel sliding out from under me. Rather than wonder, let's just change the tires that probably need to be changed anyway.
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Old 10-02-17, 12:48 PM
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any of the all around treads work good for most conditions, clement mxp/pdx, victoria cross xg, maxxis mud, michelin mud, schwalbe one all around, challenge grifo are all pretty similar
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Old 10-02-17, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
any of the all around treads work good for most conditions, clement mxp/pdx, victoria cross xg, maxxis mud, michelin mud, schwalbe one all around, challenge grifo are all pretty similar
Clement PDX grip better than the Maxxis Mudwrestlers (and the Maxxis wear out really quick too) Both of them are significantly better than the Vitoria XG in my experience.

Michelin Mud 2 are nice, but they are skinny -they are a real 30mm.

The Michelin are like the Panaracer Crossblaster. Nice tires if you weigh 100lbs.
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Old 10-02-17, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FrozenK
Clement PDX grip better than the Maxxis Mudwrestlers (and the Maxxis wear out really quick too) Both of them are significantly better than the Vitoria XG in my experience.

Michelin Mud 2 are nice, but they are skinny -they are a real 30mm.

The Michelin are like the Panaracer Crossblaster. Nice tires if you weigh 100lbs.
good to hear your experiences. I've used them all but never really at the same time and same conditions so hard to cross compare directly.

Comparing the PDX and mudwrestlers to the XG is a bit unfair since their use is more mud which would be in the vic cross XG category.
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Old 10-03-17, 12:57 PM
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My CAAD X came with 35mm Sammy Slicks too. I swapped them out for Clement MDX clinchers and saw a huge improvement. The MDX is way better on just about any surface and is also lighter weight than the Sammy Slick.
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