I-Like-To-Bike

Sunny today.

The Kindle Paperwhite can be read easily in direct sunlight, with or without the built-in internal lighting.

My six year old Kindle 4, with no internal lighting, can be easily read in direct sunlight.

The Kindle Fire is difficult to read in direct sunlight due to reflections off of the glass screen, just the shade from my body/head is enough to make the screen readable.

prj71

Or maybe the fact that a majority of people work indoors 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week which has absolutely zero to do with car dependency.

Huh? A walk into the wild for me requires a 10 minute walk up the road.

No. Why would it?

Between work and sleep...Probably 70%

cooker

Thanks - very helpful!

tandempower

It has to do with cultural biases that favor driving as well. I think a big part of it has to do with standards regarding clothing and not smelling. Wearing comfortable clothing outdoors might make you sweat a little or your skin smells different after being exposed to sunshine, but it is not that bad and it's not hard to interact with people who have been outside without smelling them. The indoor aesthetic standards for human appearance are just a form of hypersensitivity that results from modern culture in which humans abuse their powers to control things to achieve unnecessarily narrow margins for what is expected aesthetically, such as when grocery stores can't sell fruit and vegetables that deviate slightly from perfectionist ideals because people have gotten so used to getting the 'pick of the litter' in the global produce markets.

travelinhobo

I saw that stat on a poster when I went into REI the other day. I found it ironically funny that the CEO was telling his slaves how much time they waste indoors for him, but I'm sure not one employee has picked up on it.

I live on my bike. I sleep under the stars every night. I probably spend 10% of my time indoors. That's okay with me. For all those who look down on me because I don't live among four walls and a white ceiling and I'm not a "productive member of society" (whatever that means), well, there's your death stat. Go to it! And the car has nothing to do with the stat because you're still outdoors when you're using it.

tandempower

Your lifestyle sounds very interesting to me. I don't see it as unproductive, as long as you are taking care of your health and respecting the environment wherever you are. I wonder how you make money and whether you are able to camp free wherever you go or generally how you manage economically, but that's just because a nomadic lifestyle is something I aspire to if I can someday justify it economically and with regard to safety, hygiene, stress-level, etc.

It's a good question about REI employees wasting time slaving away indoors for the company. I remember some time ago REI decided to forego black friday and gave their employees a paid day off to spend outdoors instead. I wonder generally how much time REI employees spend outdoors when they're not working, how many days off they get per year, including how many sequential days off, etc.

travelinhobo

I'm pretty sure my stress level is far lower than yours. Typically, just like with touring, the biggest worry of the day is where am I gonna sleep that night. But if I'm stationary, like for the winter, then it's only a concern until I build up my super duper secret hiding plaslwMy go to places are churches/temples, schools, parks and athletic fields. Altho lately ive gotten into looking for empty homes for sale/lease/rent (I only sleep outside) Googlemaps is a great resource. I make money doing mystery shopping. I can't do it everywhere I go, but like now, I'm back on the coast of Socal and the potential has just increased exponentially. I didn't get into this intentionally, but when your society shows you to the door...

prj71

You'll never make it there until they put the solar powered washer and dryers out there in public for you.

prj71

The car is the star. It's the epitome of convenience...It's on no ones schedule but its owner’s. Buses can’t do that..Taxis can't do that...Trains can’t do that. Even Uber makes people wait.

I don't know about you...but I don't like to smell when I get into work. I don't think others want to smell me either.

cooker

Your car smells pretty bad too, mind you. I can't usually smell my co-workers, except a few annoying perfume slatherers, but there are days I can barely stand to be outside smelling their cars.

prj71

The inside of my truck sometimes stinks. But then I hang the vanilla pine tree from the rear view mirror and then all is well in the world.

cooker

Well, yeah, because your world is the inside of your truck!

tandempower

Laundry line is a light, cheap, and affordable technology that can be set up practically anywhere you can get away with it. As for washing, I can hand wash clothes but they just don't get as clean as I would like. I have a pretty sensitive sense of smell so I enjoy machine-washed clothing, and that would be a big motivator to embark on a long-distance hike, yes.

Some people think I'm too austere, but machine-washed laundry is an indulgence I can justify; especially if it was done in an small unobtrusive washer powered by a couple solar panels and a battery that didn't require any trees to be cut/removed to get sun to the panels, i.e. because the panels are on a high pole above the tree canopy.

tandempower

I suspect you don't LCF because if you did you would have heard these lines so many times, you wouldn't bother posting it in an LCF forum. Bikes are also on your own schedule, but finding a good parking spot is easier. You may spend more time biking, but you feel so much healthier than after sitting still in car.

As for smell, carry some scented baby wipes if you're that concerned. It's horrible to think about maintaining sprawl and all the other environmental/economic problems that cars cause just to avoid sweating.

Cars began as a way to see the world beyond what was feasibly walkable (or bikeable because there was hardly any pavement beyond cities back then), but they have gradually turned into an economic ball and chain that are pushed on us to appease the investors who want guaranteed income in the form of multi-year monthly payments.

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by prj71

The car is the star. It's the epitome of convenience...It's on no ones schedule but its owner’s. Buses can’t do that..Taxis can't do that...Trains can’t do that. Even Uber makes people wait…

I grew up in the Motor City where car is King, mass transit is a pauper and I know that attitude, even extant in Boston. But for some reason,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

… Back in the 60’s in the Motor City, I had an “English Racer,’ and longed to tour at about age 14, but then joined the car culture. In Ann Arbor MI in the 70’s I really realized the utility of bicycles for commuting, and began touring on a five-speed Schwinn Suburban…

Now that I live in Boston,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

I often tout Boston as the epitome of LCF/LCL in America,not to brag, but illustrate the possibilities. When I take visitors on a 4-5 mile walking tour of downtown Boston, I introduce it with this explanation:

Several years ago, the architectural critic of the Boston Globe, Robert Campbell, was visiting Southfield, Michigan, a town I know well, and described it as the “City of Towers and Cars” (including “busy highways and vast parking lots" [and tall office buildings, and sprawling office and retail parks]).

In his article, he contrasted that to the “City of Outdoor Rooms” (Boston) which is visited as one would visit a person’s home, passing through the various portals, from room to room, admiring the furnishings within

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

And I have equally pleasant driving and mass transit alternatives...

Sometime ago I tried to schematically diagram the comparisons between my three transportation modes:

Overall Satisfaction:
BIKE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN>>>CAR

Intensity of Focus:
BIKE>>>CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN

Convenience:
CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BIKE>>TRAIN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

Some cities never lost those neighborhoods, like Boston. It seems to me that in order to be an attractive place to support a variety of restaurants and shops to which to walk (and not drive to visit that neighborhood…the basic premise of this thread ["Car-Free outings for otherwise car-heavies") a neighborhood must be a large area with a substantial, dense population living there, likely that evolved in the pre-automotive era.

I think a lot of urban revitalization projects tend to create enclaves as driving destinations to walk around in such large cities like in my native Detroit.

One of my greatest complaints about the automotive industry/culture is that by by intent, or just popular acceptance, previously vitalized neighborhoods just whithered away, and deprived the citizens of the choice to Live Car Free.

Location, location, location.

prj71

No! My truck get to places I spend outside. Not inside.

Like this weekend for instance...I'm leaving Friday morning for a 3 day weekend of trout fishing. My truck will get me and all of my friends gear there And we'll spend about 8 hours outside fishing on Thursday and about 10 hours outside fishing on Saturday and Sunday.

You got it all wrong man...

prj71

prj71

I'm not car free but I put on 3000 miles biking last year. I'm doing OK.

It's easier to drive to work and not worry about that stuff.

No economic ball and chain for me. Both vehicles are paid for. Just a little gas, insurance and a little TLC every now and then. I spend more on my mortgage, groceries and outdoor pursuits in one year than I do on driving my truck. It's convenient man!!

prj71

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live in the country with a 6 mile commute to work and If I'm lucky I'll maybe pass 2 cars along the way.

No concrete jungle for this fellow!!!! Too many people and blinking lights and bleeping cars and sirens and smog and traffic jams and...

Maelochs

Man ... Tandempower sure has a rich imagination.

Cars were developed because people found that horses were a pain.

Horses are slow, they carp a lot, and wherever and whenever they want ... (in fact, horse dung was getting to be a huge issue in cities towards the end of the 19th century.) Horse food is low-energy and high volume, so storing it and carrying it is another.

Horses need a lot of care, pretty much constantly, being living beings.

Riding animals was an improvement over walking, in that a rider could go a little faster and carry more gear. Draft animals gave people the power to transport large loads.

There were drawbacks which became more and more apparent and population increased and concentrated, and as commerce increasingly involved widely physically separated population centers.

But people wanted cars, and trains, and trucks, and planes ... not to get out for excursions, but because they wanted to go farther, faster, and carry larger loads.

Also because herds of horses in urban environments were very expensive health hazards.

Cars have drawbacks. Horses have drawbacks. Bikes have drawbacks. Walking has drawbacks.

If cars were "began as a way to see the world beyond what was feasibly walkable" what prompted walking? What prompted riding?

People moved around to find food and shelter and to escape population pressure. The mode of transport changed as new modes became available.

Horses were an economic ball and chain. So are bikes.

Think about what is involved in making a bicycle.

Aluminum is very expensive to make----takes a ton of electricity to refine. Tires are basically petroleum. Steel has to be mined and refined and takes a lot of energy and also takes a carbon source, coke I think, which is made mostly from mined coal.

And bicycles really only work for transport on paved roads and depending on climate, part of the year. Mountain bikes can handle unpaved roads but in muddy conditions take a lot of energy and beat the body. So that means the whole tar-macadam, road-graders, crushed stone industry---very energy-intensive---is needed whether we have cars or not. Roads would last longer ... but so would every journey. And good luck unloading that rail car onto bike trailers ... you would need 18-lane bike superhighways to transport goods.

Just like most car-owners don't really consider to total cost of cars ... some bike riders don't consider the whole cost of bicycling (not the individual cost.) Same with people who use public transport ... it seems to be cheap on a personal level ... seems to be ....

People have to make choices ... and whether they admit it or not, everybody has to make compromises.

That washing machine, powered by solar cells ... copper wire? A steel chassis and body panels? Where does the water come from? How about the pipes? Solar cells ... mining rare-earth metals and making solar cells are pretty polluting as industries ....

People used to boil clothes in animal-fat-and-ash soap, pound them with wooden poles, and get them completely clean.


I do a lot of hand-washing, but I know I simply don't use enough energy---physical energy in stirring and kneading, and heat energy in getting the water hot enough for long enough----to get the clothes as clean as a machine.

But those are the only difference----time and energy. People can hand-wash clothes as clean as any machine---a washing machine isn't magic, it is just energetic.

We justify the things we do to ourselves however, and to others, too ... but why should we? Why should we feel we have to?

Somebody wants to use an electric-powered washing machine, with all that entails ... so what?

So long as that person can accept the free choices others made as well .......

Jim from Boston

A paraphrased quote I like about city living is "Though I may not go to the Opera, I like knowing it is available."

tandempower

It's too easy, which is why so many people do it, which is why there is so much traffic, and why so many people live so far from work, etc. etc.

You sound like you're promoting (truck) driving, so that automatically biases me against your post. People do this from time to time in the LCF forum. It's like they can't just discuss living car free without arguing in favor of driving.

tandempower

Maybe there should be a sub-forum of LCF for 'cars vs. bikes' debates. There are so many people who post in LCF to defend the automobile.

It was a documentary I watched where Ford had to keep bringing down the price of the ModelT to sell, but when it finally started selling, people drove on dirt paths worn by the wheels of other cars or they charted new trails. If two cars would nose into each other, one would have to pull to the side to let the other go by. Bikes were popular within cities but the pavement stopped at the edge of the city, and Idk how many people thought about off-road biking back then.

You're not thinking about the difference in how many parts a bike has vs. an automobile. Pick up a Haynes manual and look at some of the diagrams. A fuel pump or a windshield washer motor has more parts than most bike components; probably even more than an entire bike. And we won't even begin to discuss weight, glass, plastic, upholstery, catalytic converters, brake pads, tire size, etc. etc. And, yes, I realize most bike seats are upholstered.

Motorized transport just needs to cater to LCF and things would work out fine. It's not a question of either-motor-vehicles-or-LCF, it's how to use LCF to minimize motorized transport and how to use motorized transport to complement LCF in the most efficient, sustainable way.

How closely have you examined all the parts of your bike(s) and how much have you thought about what goes into producing them? Have you done the same with car parts?

Check out the videos posted about small washing machines. Water can be hand-pumped.

Ok

A machine also stretches and wrings the clothes less. Idk why you are arguing about all these things. Do you just like to argue? Do you not simply understand that a washing machine gets clothes cleaner than hand-washing?

I might get one of these plunger wands that agitate the clothes in the water for 20 minutes without using your hands. That will probably work as well as a washing machine. I just think it's a nice idea to put a small solar-powered washing machine like the ones in the videos in a grid-free camping spot and use it there. Why not? It's not like we're talking an entire laundromat.

I live consciously and conscientiously, and then I communicate about it with others. I don't need to justify my choices and ideas, but I do in hopes of doing something positive in this life beyond my own life.

It's just not something you can carry with you in a backpack, so you have to have some level of community acceptance that the washing machine is somehow going to be funded and its use protected against abuse (hopefully not coin operated b/c I don' t like carrying coins).

It doesn't work like this. Imagine I want the freedom to practice my ukulele and you say fine as long as I accept your freedom to blast your huge subwoofers. All free choices aren't equivalent.

Mobile 155

Is that anything like promoting "cars" to deliver food to you on a hiking trail? Or is that the second part of the introduction to this forum, car light? Just to check a bias?

prj71

It's 26 degrees out there this morning. Brrrrr!!. Truck was nice and cozy on the way to work.

What part of no traffic on my way to work did you miss? Didn't see one car on the way in during my 6 mile drive..


Well yeah. It gets me places in a timely manner not possible with a bike. For instance...I'm taking it to Colorado in August. 15 hour drive to get there. It's going to haul all my camping gear so I can camp a few days on the river and then it's going to bring me to all of the places I fish. Not feasible with a bike fercripesakes!!!

I'll look around at the campsite for solar powered wash machines and hope that someone will make the 2 hour 30 mile trek (yes that right...2 hours to go 30 miles on a mountainous road) and bring me some food damn it! I'll let you know what I find out.