tandempower

Hamza Farrukh, the Goldman Sachs employee who wants to solve the global water crisis - Business Insider

I was reading this article about a Goldman-Sachs executive who wants to invest in drilling deep water wells and installing solar-powered pumps in Ethiopia and elsewhere people have to walk a long way for water. It occurred to me that often when I take a long hike or bike ride in an unfamiliar area, it can be tricky getting access to good drinking water. In fact, I recently gave up on a hike after getting dehydrated through a sunny section of trail before arriving at a water tap only to find out the water was chlorinated. Although that was in an undeveloped area, I have also taken long hikes through cities where I had to refill my water bottle in store bathrooms because of the lack of public water fountains.

It is strange that some areas have lots of public water fountains while others seem to be actively deterring 'free loaders' from rehydrating if they're not paying customers. Do you think being able to walk/bike around wherever you want without having to pay for drinking water should be a right? Or do you think it is fair to expect pedestrians/cyclists to pay for water because it costs resources and labor to establish and maintain a source of drinking water and a fountain for public use?

If people should pay for their drinking water, what do you think about a project to supply poor people with drinking water like the one linked at the beginning of this post? Do you think it is different to provide free drinking water to people living poor and car-free in Ethiopia than it is to do so in the developed world where it is theoretically easier to make money to spend on water? Further, with the cost of water so low from most municipal water utilities, do you think it is legitimate to withhold tap water access in order to sell much more expensive bottled water? or should people be able to buy tap water at rates comparable to the wholesale price, e.g. a penny per gallon or something like that?

Finally, has uncertainty about drinking water sources ever deterred you from going somewhere car-free? Do you plan your hiking/biking routes according to water resupply? Or do you just head out and assume you'll be able to get water wherever you need it?

I-Like-To-Bike

badger1

Yawn. Yet another P&R Lite Trojan Horse thread started in LCF.

Oh well. Carry on.

tandempower

How is drinking water not an LCF issue? If you are walking/biking, you need water. You also need water if you're driving, of course, but then you're just sitting and you have plenty of room to carry plenty of water with you, and/or you pass through water-poor areas faster than if you're walking/biking.

Walter S

Hey! You said it! OT!

badger1

Simples. I applied my critical thinking skills, the fruit of an extensive liberal arts education and subsequent years spent professing same, to a reading of the rather unsubtle sub-text of your original post, and came to what seems to me a rather obvious conclusion.

Just think of me as reaching out to you with my enlightenment, as those of us who have been able to free ourselves of the shackles of conventional thinking are morally obliged to do.

But never mind; as I said, carry on. I know you will.

tandempower

Stop badgering me about things about me and go away if you don't want to discuss the topic of water. I explain my POV on critical thinking etc. and you and others are free to make sense of what I say or not, but you don't need to mock me for it. I disagree with many people's perspective but I don't waste post after post mocking them. It spoils discussion and it is the reason I gave up on P&R.

I-Like-To-Bike

Perhaps if you didn't consider any and all disagreement with your opinions, proposals, and schemes as spoiled discussion you wouldn't be in such a state of angst.

tandempower

The thread has a topic and the topic is not me. All I'm asking is that people discuss topics instead of me. I don't even mind when tangential topics flow from discussion of the thread topic, but that is different than shifting the topic to me or some other poster.

cb400bill

I-Like-To-Bike

When walking, bicycling or driving, a rational person has to consider the limitations of his choice in transportation. That would include carrying enough water to safely and comfortably make the trip through "water-poor areas" to include traveling on the subway, bus, bicycle or foot.


Expecting the rest of humanity to provide a convenient free unchlorinated "good water" fountain for you whenever you are thirsty wherever you happen to be, just because you do not wish to recognize the reality of the limitation of your choice in travel in combination with an unwillingness to pay for service or products? Not likely but dream on.

tandempower

Do you think that drinking water facilities are generally more limited than they would be if the expectation was that more people would get around by foot/bike instead of driving? Another way to think of this is to ask what would happen if it was difficult for people to get drinking water in all the places they are accustomed to doing so, such as stores, airports, etc. As long as the majority of people get access to water fountains where they expect them, any shortages can be dismissed; but if people were suddenly expected to carry bottled water with them in places where they expect water fountains, there would be widespread complaints.

Another example of cultural norms biased in favor of the status quo, I think.

So do you think initiatives like the one linked in the OP to provide drinking water in Ethiopia where people walk for hours to get water are misguided?

Machka 

As a long distance cyclist, and one who has done all-day hikes ... generally speaking, I attempt to plan ahead a little bit and make sure I've got enough water with me for some time/distance. Generally speaking, I follow a long distance cyclist guideline ... if you're down to the last third of your first bottle, and you've reached a water source ... fill up. If I know I'll be cycling into the night where there will be no services, I buy an extra bottle or two and tuck them into my Carradice.

Occasionally I might make an error, but not too often ... I tend to carry slightly more than I think I'll need.


I use a calculation.

Assuming that ideally we should drink one 750 ml bottle of water every 1 to 1.5 hours depending on weather, exertion, etc. ...

Assuming that I've got 2 litres of water on board (which I usually do to start with), and I've usually drunk at least 500 ml before I begin, 2 litres could conceivably last me 4 hours.

Cycling at approx. 20 km/h, in 4 hours I should cover about 80 km. Chances are I will encounter a town with services within 80 km, in daylight hours. Night, however, can be a different story ... and sometimes even in the day, towns can roll up the sidewalks early in the afternoon. So there are times when I do have to be prepared for no services in, say, 120 km. And I'll adjust the amount of water I carry accordingly.

.

rumrunn6

I don't mind paying for water when I'm out & about on my bike, especially if it is refrigerated

Machka 

Absolutely!

tandempower

What the Goldman-Sachs executive in the OP link seems to be concerned with is the sustainability of bottled-water deliveries. That article says that water-aide is usually given by bringing a supply of bottled water to a remote area. This is basically what you're paying for when you buy bottled water (refrigerated or not) on the road.

What this executive wants to do is have wells with solar pumps that make it possible for people to get drinking water without bottled water deliveries to the area. Imo, that is a great idea and far better than relying on deliveries, which require (motor)vehicles, labor time, create plastic bottle waste, etc.

I-Like-To-Bike

What the heck does a Goldman-Sachs executive's investment plans for drilling deep water wells and installing solar-powered pumps in Ethiopia have to do with Living Car Free? Or anyone else's "concern" about the sustainability of bottled-water deliveries in Ethiopia or anywhere else?


Sounds like Fooish stuff to me.

CliffordK

I know all the local watering holes.

The one thing I find annoying is that the city tends to shut off the water from about November to April, as if the needs for water just vanishes (although it is often reduced in the winter).

Restroom access is also important, and equally annoying when the cities choose to close, or not maintain restrooms.

Or inconvenience stores that have no public restrooms (which I will not buy products from).

Touring can be a bit of a problem, but if it is a repeat route, one carries plenty of water, and learns where one can replenish, perhaps including a couple of creeks.

One thing that I find annoying are fountains designed to be inconvenient to refill bottles from. Portland likes to have bubblers.

Mobile 155

rumrunn6

meanwhile, in Michigan, they run the water fountains constantly, because if they don't, the lead level is too high. that's apparently cheaper than fixing the pipes. homeowners in the area, are a whole other story ...

mtb_addict

Water is a human right

Human right to water and sanitation

CliffordK

In most places, there is water... somewhere. But, the shallow water is relatively clean. The deep water may be briny, or mixed with oil (ok, that may be good for some, but bad for drinking).

The benefit, of course, of briny deep water is that it may be cheaper to purify it than to transport clean water from distant places.

In some places, land subsidence, and sink holes are related to ground water removal, and lowering the water tables. So, take out too much water, and one has bigger problems.

And, of course, Oklahoma has removed oil and water from one layer, and put it back in a different layer, causing a growing problem of earthquakes.

It is also unclear how quick the deep water replenishes. There may be a sea level water table in areas. But, draining water in one place could have significant impacts elsewhere. For example, draining springs in vital desert oasis.

I-Like-To-Bike

Can someone with a clue explain the relevance of the topic about extracting water from underneath the surface of the land to the purpose of the Living Car free list (as delineated in the list header), or what justifies its introduction on this list in another barely disguised P&R rant?

Walter S

I go on camping trips where it would be hard to pack all the water I'll need. But there's almost always springs if not a river where I can get all the water I want for free - just need to bring a filter. I don't consider that a car free thing. It's more about bicycle touring and has been heavily covered on that forum as I recall.

prathmann

Meanwhile, elsewhere in Michigan, clean water gushes out of the ground continuously on its own due to ground water pressure.