Thinking about a touring tandem - too few choices ?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
Thinking about a touring tandem - too few choices ?
I'm thinking about a plunge into tandem biking. We do tandem sea kayaking and it this works for us very well despite of everyone warning us that a tandem kayak is called a divorce boat. I think in the same spirit a tandem bicycle warning is in order but based on our overall synergy doing things tandem I think it's worth going into.
One challenge that I'm seeing is what i hope is due to my unfamiliarity with various manufacturers, is that my choice of manufacturer is pretty much reduced to co-motion and no one else. For touring, very few manufacturers show photographs of their finished bikes sporting pannier racks, couplers and fenders.
My basic requirements are:
1.Disc brakes
2.Front and rear Pannier Racks
3.Fenders
4. Couplers and appropriate practical travel luggage to fit the whole bicycle into
My wish requirement would be:
a) Dynamo front hub
b) Rohloff rear hub with chain (no belt)
I understand there are custom builders who will whip one out for $15K and up but a straight vanilla order based on our bike fit measurements with all of the above seems to be only available with Co-Motion.
Please steer me in appropriate direction if you possess better knowledge :-)
One challenge that I'm seeing is what i hope is due to my unfamiliarity with various manufacturers, is that my choice of manufacturer is pretty much reduced to co-motion and no one else. For touring, very few manufacturers show photographs of their finished bikes sporting pannier racks, couplers and fenders.
My basic requirements are:
1.Disc brakes
2.Front and rear Pannier Racks
3.Fenders
4. Couplers and appropriate practical travel luggage to fit the whole bicycle into
My wish requirement would be:
a) Dynamo front hub
b) Rohloff rear hub with chain (no belt)
I understand there are custom builders who will whip one out for $15K and up but a straight vanilla order based on our bike fit measurements with all of the above seems to be only available with Co-Motion.
Please steer me in appropriate direction if you possess better knowledge :-)
#2
Senior Member
Try sending a note over to Granite Tandem Design. They're in your corner of the country, familiar with touring by tandem, and reasonably priced for what they offer. It's unlikely that any tandem builders or dealers have a bike in stock that matches your requirements and fits well (actually, here's one locally: https://www.wheelworks.com/product/c...ilot-11641.htm). Other options for complete tandems include MTB Tandems Fandango, Rodriguez Cycles, and Calfee.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
Thank You - I sent a quick note to Granite Tandem Design.
#4
Senior Member
They're in Seattle, so not local, but they apparently make more custom tandems than anyone else--Rodriguez/R&E Cycles. They made ours, and it's wonderful. They'll do whatever you want.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
Granite Tandem Design is in Seattle? - I thought they were in New Hampshire :-) thanks for the heads up.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 1,047
Bikes: 1998 Co-Motion Co-Pilot, 2015 Calfee Tetra
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
I think Calfee can meet your goals. Mel at Tandems East in New Jersey is a good source of info and an interface to Calfee.
#9
Bad example
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle and Reims
Posts: 3,056
Bikes: Peugeot: AO-8 1973, PA-10 1971, PR-10 1973, Sante 1988; Masi Gran Criterium 1975, Stevenson Tourer 1980, Stevenson Criterium 1981, Schwinn Paramount 1972, Rodriguez 2006, Gitane Federal ~1975, Holdsworth Pro, Follis 172 ~1973, Bianchi '62
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked 202 Times
in
91 Posts
Another vote for R&E. They make excellent bikes all around. My wife and I now have five of their bikes!
__________________
Keeping Seattle’s bike shops in business since 1978
Keeping Seattle’s bike shops in business since 1978
#10
Jedi Master
I would recommend starting out with a used tandem. There should be plenty of 90's vintage touring models out there that would make a great starter bike to see if you like it. I bought a 1992 Santana Fusion a several years ago. We rode it a lot the first season then a little less every season after that. This year we have ridden it zero times. I know I can sell it for about what I paid for it so I don't feel as bad as I would if I had bought a new one.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
I think we will test ride something to get the initial idea...the idea of getting a used one is not bad but it would really mean I'd have to store another bike because it will be hard to sell later.
I would recommend starting out with a used tandem. There should be plenty of 90's vintage touring models out there that would make a great starter bike to see if you like it. I bought a 1992 Santana Fusion a several years ago. We rode it a lot the first season then a little less every season after that. This year we have ridden it zero times. I know I can sell it for about what I paid for it so I don't feel as bad as I would if I had bought a new one.
#12
Senior Member
I would recommend starting out with a used tandem. There should be plenty of 90's vintage touring models out there that would make a great starter bike to see if you like it. I bought a 1992 Santana Fusion a several years ago. We rode it a lot the first season then a little less every season after that. This year we have ridden it zero times. I know I can sell it for about what I paid for it so I don't feel as bad as I would if I had bought a new one.
That said, we went right to a custom tandem from Rodriguez, never having ridden a tandem before. We were quite sure that we were going to like it, and, having been happily married for over 40 years, we weren't too concerned with the demands on the relationship that a tandem brings. But we also had looked for a long time for a used one that would fit us (I'm tall; she's short), and nothing came close.
We're loving it, but we do know that it's not for every couple.
Mark
#13
afraid of whales
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
There are several of these Co-Motion/Rolhoff/belt-drive bikes in the tandem club I ride with. The owners rave about the bike and they all travel (fly) to exotic locales such as Asia/Europe/Oz. If I wanted a bike with all the features you listed it would be a Co-Motion. They have the recipe down and many built, on-the-road. Why take a chance going to a boutique and hope they know what they're doing?
#14
Junior Member
We own a Hase Pino that we tour on. Sometimes referred to as a semi-recumbent or Hi-Lo. Similar models include the Bilenky Viewpoint (built to order), Circe Morpheus (few US dealers). Front seat (stoker) is recumbent. Rear is upright. Stoker can choose to pedal or not pedal (independent freewheeling) though if stoker pedals, captain has to pedal.
Has disk brakes, comes with rear rack, fenders, dynamo hub, rohloff option available, front (actually mid) pannier rack available, coupled for transport (thought not as compact as S&S coupled bikes). Basic model is about $5500 and goes up from there. We bought ours from Mt. Airy Cycles in Maryland as the owner, Larry Black, let us try his personal Pino for a couple of weekend rides.
Meets all your stated requirements. Several accounts of long distance touring on the Pino can be found on the interwebs.
For us, the Pino is superior to a conventional tandem in that it puts us closer together rather than having the stoker in back with forward view blocked by the captain. It isn't perfect. Not that we're a fast team but we're definitely slower on the Pino. The Captains position is rather upright and while I like it, if you prefer a roadie position, you may get frustrated.
(oh, I'll take tandem cycling anyday over tandem kayaking. That said, we had a nice day of tandem kayaking last summer in Alaska but the pace was easy and the distance moderate)
Has disk brakes, comes with rear rack, fenders, dynamo hub, rohloff option available, front (actually mid) pannier rack available, coupled for transport (thought not as compact as S&S coupled bikes). Basic model is about $5500 and goes up from there. We bought ours from Mt. Airy Cycles in Maryland as the owner, Larry Black, let us try his personal Pino for a couple of weekend rides.
Meets all your stated requirements. Several accounts of long distance touring on the Pino can be found on the interwebs.
For us, the Pino is superior to a conventional tandem in that it puts us closer together rather than having the stoker in back with forward view blocked by the captain. It isn't perfect. Not that we're a fast team but we're definitely slower on the Pino. The Captains position is rather upright and while I like it, if you prefer a roadie position, you may get frustrated.
(oh, I'll take tandem cycling anyday over tandem kayaking. That said, we had a nice day of tandem kayaking last summer in Alaska but the pace was easy and the distance moderate)
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
Yeah, Seven or Firefly (don't know if they make a tandem) would be a really cool ride. The costs are slightly breathtaking. I have to control my emotions ;-) but there will be a tandem in our possession for next season :-)
#17
Full Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 400
Bikes: Schwinn, Nishiki, Santana, Trek, Rodriguez
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 106 Times
in
69 Posts
We bought an R+E tandem this summer with specifications close to yours. We have toured/camped for many years on our 1992 Santana tandem. We wanted a durable touring tandem that could break apart, a Rohloff, and more space for the stoker than most tandem makers provide (very important to make stoker happy!). R+E has much experience and our new biked was great during our tour this summer in the Pacific northwest (we are from PA). We also considered Thorn (England, significantly lower price), but their frame sizes were too small for us and when broken does not fit into S/S cases. Other makers did not make the cut for a variety of reasons too long to list.
I question disc brakes on a fully loaded tandem for road travel, they will not be good in mountains. We have rim brakes front/rear and a 3rd rear disk brake (because you can't get a drum brake anymore).
Regarding going to a tandem, we both toured/camped long distance on single bikes prior to the tandem. We both knew that we enjoyed that kind a recreation before the tandem. Funny, we both whitewater kayak but would not do that in a tandem kayak, but a sea kayak might be different.
I question disc brakes on a fully loaded tandem for road travel, they will not be good in mountains. We have rim brakes front/rear and a 3rd rear disk brake (because you can't get a drum brake anymore).
Regarding going to a tandem, we both toured/camped long distance on single bikes prior to the tandem. We both knew that we enjoyed that kind a recreation before the tandem. Funny, we both whitewater kayak but would not do that in a tandem kayak, but a sea kayak might be different.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
I'm not that flexible going to caliper brakes but it would sure make finding a great deal on a tandem easier as there are many great tandems without disc brakes to be had on ebay and locally for a quarter price of a new disc brake model. ... maybe ... ;-)
I just watched co-motion video of packing their tandem into the S&S travel cases - sheesh ... they removed cranks, brake discs from the wheels, seat stems ... too much for my taste. I'm almost more inclined in the Tri All case that Calfee uses ... it seems that the disassembly and assembly in this hardshell box is much faster and simpler.
I just watched co-motion video of packing their tandem into the S&S travel cases - sheesh ... they removed cranks, brake discs from the wheels, seat stems ... too much for my taste. I'm almost more inclined in the Tri All case that Calfee uses ... it seems that the disassembly and assembly in this hardshell box is much faster and simpler.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 720
Bikes: Road, mountain and track bikes and tandems.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times
in
15 Posts
I do not know if you want to do credit card touring or full loaded touring, but if you want to do full loaded touring, there is a good chance that with two racks and four panniers, that you will come up short on space. I have done full loaded touring on a tandem and had to use a trailer. I am from Ravello bikes. I build take apart aluminum travel tandems (patented design). Take a look at my website and contact me if you wish to dialog.
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
I want to do fully loaded touring - I think that using the Tri All 3 case would allow me to even keep the fenders attached ... no ?
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 720
Bikes: Road, mountain and track bikes and tandems.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times
in
15 Posts
fenders
The advantage of a take apart tandem is that it makes it possible to put the tandem in two 26" suitcases that are under the size limit for airline "oversized" luggage.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
yeah I heard about clip on fenders but never witnessed it in action. Will definitely put those on the tandem.
I do not know if you have herd of clip on fenders? They just slide on/ off a little bracket under the fork/ seat stay bridge. They are super easy to slide on/ slide off.
The advantage of a take apart tandem is that it makes it possible to put the tandem in two 26" suitcases that are under the size limit for airline "oversized" luggage.
The advantage of a take apart tandem is that it makes it possible to put the tandem in two 26" suitcases that are under the size limit for airline "oversized" luggage.
#23
Senior Member
We have a Seven Ti that exactly fits your description....except for the front rack and front disk. We spec'd a Woundup carbon with canti studs and fenders. I can run two sets of V brakes and have a rear disk also. Our interest is credit card touring. I run 40mm tires with fenders when we tour alone overseas.
__________________
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
nice. Yeah we definitely want to have the ability to have front and rear panniers but Seven must be a sweet ride. Must have run over 10k huh? Would you trust beefy carbon wheels on this rig...wait oh I guess for carbon wheels you'd have to have disc brakes...?
We have a Seven Ti that exactly fits your description....except for the front rack and front disk. We spec'd a Woundup carbon with canti studs and fenders. I can run two sets of V brakes and have a rear disk also. Our interest is credit card touring. I run 40mm tires with fenders when we tour alone overseas.
#25
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,528
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3886 Post(s)
Liked 1,938 Times
in
1,383 Posts
We've toured on our Co-Motion Speedster, a 2003 steel frame with lateral tube, carbon fork, and V-brakes. We only use rear panniers, a rack-top bag, a frame bag, and a bar bag. Our team weight is 285 and touring load added to bare-bones bike is ~44 lbs. total for comfortable all-weather camping and cooking, though minimal on the civvies. We got the bike in '07. when drums were still available on ebay. I built a new touring rear with a drum. I would not tour in unknown terrain with only the V-brakes. We used the drum a lot in steep terrain. You can't use a disc as a drag brake like we do our drum, but it would be an effective stopper added to rim brakes. However you probably couldn't find a frame with mounts for both rim and disc.
We paid a lot of attention to going light on our gear. Most of it is our backpacking gear, already light. We make a lot of use of compression sacks for everything made of cloth. Volume is as big an enemy as weight.
I have friends who went cross-country on a disc-braked Speedster with almost no bike load and everything in a Bob trailer. Worked great for them.
We paid a lot of attention to going light on our gear. Most of it is our backpacking gear, already light. We make a lot of use of compression sacks for everything made of cloth. Volume is as big an enemy as weight.
I have friends who went cross-country on a disc-braked Speedster with almost no bike load and everything in a Bob trailer. Worked great for them.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter