merlinextraligh

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument that many many riders were doping in Armstrong's era, and recognize the pressure riders were under to dope to be competitive, so I'm not that outraged that Armstrong doped.

However, the way Armstrong treated people, bullying others into doping, lashing out against former teammates, intimidating witnesses, and retaliating against anyone perceived as against him is outrageous.

Given the way he treated Steffen Prentis, Emma O'Reilly, Fillipe Simeoni, Christophe Bassons, Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, Frankie Andreu, Jonathon Vaughters, etc. etc. he is one vindictive prick.

I'm sure there have been other horse's asses in pro cycling, but Armstrong has to be on every short list of All time Asses.

EvenKeel

Yes.

Cat4Lifer

If what Hamilton said is true: that Armstrong snitched on Hamilton to the UCI in 2004, then Armstrong is one big B'.

bike56

I use to feel that way about Lance,maybe it's the way he's being attacked,but I support him now.Anybody that has ever been around any pro sports in the last 20 years, knows that virtually all top level pro athletes in any sport,have been doping to some degree.If you don't believe that than you are being naive.To go after Lance retroactively is what gets me.It's over and done with.I hope the French tell them to go to hell

colombo357

Welcome to the discussion. The fact that Lance doped hardly scratches the surface as towhy he is the biggest ass not only in cycling history, but likely the entire history of sports.

You have some serious catching up to do.

Start with Tyler's book, or the downloadable affidavits off USADA's website.

merlinextraligh

I fully get that doping was rampant in this timeframe.

My point is about Armstrong's behavior toward his peers. I don't think Ullrich, Pantani, Basso, etc, etc, went around trying to destroy other people's careers to cover their own tracks.

And as to the retroactive thing, the evidence shows Armstrong was still at it in 2010, and other charged individuals are still in a position to continue the same bahavior now, i.e. Bruyneel.

Jed19

I have been hearing for a long long time that LA is not a very nice human being. But then, most guys with a constitution like his are not great human beings. I think the kind of "mental fortitude/drive/sine qua non" that is embodied in people like that is also mostly responsible for the way they look at people, ie expendables to be used and discarded in pursuit of their goals.

Now, off to my other job as an amateur psychoanalyst.

bikerjp

Even USADA was going to forgive him to some extent if he would have just come clean and cooperated. Clearly it's not just about whether or not he doped. It's about the extent to which he impacted other riders (forced to dope to keep their job), their families (threats to Levi's wife for example), snitching on other riders for doing the same thing he was, bribes to cover his trail, and the overall impact to cycling as a whole. Yes, he is an ass and hopefully there will be some level of prosecution. Doping itself may not be illegal in the sense of actual crime, but what about coercion and threatening others.

Keith99

Why does everything about Armstrong turn to the most?

Now I think he was a real prick. Some of what he said regarding the mussette bag incident were unbelievable.

But there is a difference between our era and the past. Now everything becomes public and add to that things that are now public and will be forgotten in 20 years are not forgotten yet.

I can think of some pretty nasty bits for Anquetil, Coppi and Hinault.

I also remember one thing Merckx said regarding the drug test that got him thrown out of the 1969 Giro. Basically it was "Why would I dope on that stage, there was nothing to gain". I believe him and if it truely was that his sample was tampered with I'd say that pretty much leaves the worst of Lance far behind.

Oh and what happened in 1904 wasn't very nice.

Jed19

The biggest difference between your examples/anecdotes and LA's is that LA was actively trying to destroy people. A whole lot of them too. That in my book, is totally in a class all by itself. And unacceptable to boot.

bike56

Yes I read Tyler's book which actually lead me on a quest to find out more about Lance.I read all the books out telling Lance's side, and watched interviews and documentaries on the net.I never cared much for him in the past and had always kind of avoided his books and videos,and always felt he was doping,but the more I learned,the more I liked him.Maybe I was taken in by his story and personalty,or just feel sorry for him.Punish him yes,but to take all 7 TDF titles.I guess I feel like the sport of cycling in general is being attacked,and dam,those years of the TDF were exciting

Nachoman

He's an ass for sure. But I see a lot of that in my profession. I'm used to it.

Cat4Lifer

i thought the tdf during the lance years (save '03) were some of the most boring races. well, along with the big mig years.

bikerjp

^ Proctologist?

tagaproject6

Donkey herder.

Mansram01

+1 Most leaders don't represent the greatest of humanity. They achieve a lot but walk over others. Few names come to mind, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc...

eja_ bottecchia

Lawyer?

mprelaw

Watching McGwire and Sosa chase Maris' home run record was exciting, too. And about as legit as those 7 TdFs. Didn't you just get a kick out of Bonds parking all of those baseballs into McCovey Cove?

You're probably too young to remember Ben Johnson demolishing the record in the 100 meters, but man, that was a real kick in the ass.

bikepro

Absolutely, positively yes! I'm just waiting for Trek and Nike to wakeup and stop supporting/enabling him.

dahoss2002

I never thought he was an ass until his comeback in 09 TDF. Everyday at the press conference rolling his eyes and giving that,"I'll bite my lip" BS trying to make Contador look like a jerk for refusing to kiss his or Brunyeel's ass. Actually, that TDF made me a fan of Contador for standing up to LANCE.

Thulsadoom

I'm sure that Lance is a bit of an SOB, yes. Let he who is without sin...and all that.

I'm also certain that things are being a bit "blown up" right now. Don't believe everything you read or hear while everyone is jumping on the bandwagon wanting to "reveal" how Lance Armstrong is the anti-christ. I would imagine that in a couple of years all the people who are now denouncing Lance will probably have mellowed and will speak fondly of Lance. It's just that it's currently cool to beat him to death.

Lance has faults and has made mistakes. He's also one of the greatest athletes of all time and strikes me as a basically good guy at heart. I'm not falling for all the BS.

richard_dupp

Any of you been around American big business? This is how life is lived in the good ole USA.

Thulsadoom

Oh yeah, and everything is sooooo much different ouside the US.

merlinextraligh

Have you read Tyler's book? Read the USADA report? Followed the incident at Cache Cache? The fued with Simeoni? The firing of Prentiss Steffen? The run ins with various staff people etc etc. Armstrong as ass is not just some new revelation. It's just now we've got a lot of it compiled in one place, and sworn to under oath.

So no one is without sin, and all of us have made mistakes.

Most of us have not been on a multi decade program to systematically destroy people who are in the position to reveal our illegal schemes.

Pug

Yup. I'd bet most people who rise high up their respective pyramids are world class ***holes. So if Lance didn't ride a bike he'd probably be:

- hedge fund manager;
- beverly hills plastic surgeon;
- general officer in the military;
- US Senator;
- CEO;
- big revenue producer in any given field;
- and the list goes on.