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Cleaning your drivetrain.

Old 09-05-20, 07:01 PM
  #51  
basscadet
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Originally Posted by C9H13N
Simple Green should never be used on anything made from aluminum. Like bike parts, for example...
It's fine if you are sure to rinse it off.
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Old 09-05-20, 09:37 PM
  #52  
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You guys must have some muddy, grimy chains.

I use a dedicated rag to wipe the grime and then dribble a little bit of wax and work it in with my fingers. Clean and quiet.
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Old 09-05-20, 11:21 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Univega
Can you use brake cleaner instead of a degreaser soap? Let it dry overnight and lube the next day?
I'm sure you can but why? It's noxious, toxic stuff.

What's wrong with using citrus degreaser and a chain cleaner?
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Old 09-05-20, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Toespeas
its not dumb , its the cheapest , easiest way to strip everything off a chain , there is nothing that comes close
How many other things have you tried?

Besides being dangerously flammable, gas is also carcinogenic. It's not designed for parts cleaning, it's a fuel - it's designed to burn quickly and intensely. Why not use parts solvent that's made specifically for cleaning greasy parts? Get set up with a parts washer. Or you can buy a bucket of carb dip at any auto parts store or Walmart. Beats a trip to the burn unit.
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Old 09-06-20, 04:58 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by MyRedTrek
I'm sure you can but why? It's noxious, toxic stuff.

What's wrong with using citrus degreaser and a chain cleaner?
It is what I had on hand at the time. I used to use WD40 to clean, then let that dry a day. Then lube. I purchased one of those chain cleaning cassettes. I will try that with Dawn (its what have on hand).
Not sure of the ratio of Dawn to water.
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Old 09-06-20, 08:39 AM
  #56  
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WD-40, spray the chain while back pedaling the crank. Then back pedal with a rag on the chain. Go for ride.
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Old 09-06-20, 09:50 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Toespeas
ywhat dangerous about gas , wh is everyone on here a safety expert LOLOL , its just as flammable as any other cleaner , its usually the cheapest thing that will deep clean everything from a chain in less than 10 minutes at about 3 dollars per gallon , you can also use lamp oil thats 2 dollars more and you get maybe a liter , or dw40 thats 4 dollars more , im talking taking the chain off the bike soaking it in a glass jar , swishing it around an dreating 3 or 4 times !
I make my living off of health and safety issues, and I'll tell you not to use gasoline. I'll admit I'm not too concerned with it flammability (its just as flammable as a lot of other solvents), but the real danger is the additives the oil companies have put in their gasoline formulas over the last 40-50 years. While those additives are great for improving engine performance and emission reduction, they are really nasty to breath in or absorb through your skin (most of them burn up in the combustion process or get 'treated' in the catalytic convertor). With plenty of other alternative cleaners on the market, there's no reason to use gasoline. I use a Park clamp-on chain cleaning tool with some diluted Simple Green in it about 1x/month, seems to do a nice job. I might try Pine-Sol since I have a bottle of that around here somewhere (I don't like it for general household cleaning), dishwashing liquid might work, too. If you're really fond of petroleum distillates, try kerosene if its available in your area.
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Old 09-06-20, 09:59 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by GlennR
I take my chain off every 1000 miles or so and put it in a heated ultrasonic parts washer with some Dawn dish soap.
Originally Posted by wingless
That is also my first step in chain maintenance. I use a jar holding the chain, instead of directly into my heated ultrasonic cleaner bath and the soapy water, permitting multiple solution swaps until chain is clean, clean, clean. I then repeat w/ mineral spirits, followed by denatured alcohol, also in jars, all prior to Molton Speed Wax in my modified wax warmer.

The final result is a drivetrain that remains clean to the touch, dead silent with looong lasting lubrication, unless i get caught in the rain.
Gasoline and other aggressive solvents are not required when warm water and dish soap are effective at dissolving the stuff attached to the exterior and interior of the chain.

My observations are that migrating / diluting every bit of internal contamination is the only "difficult" time consuming aspect, requiring multiple solution changes to get super clean.
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Old 09-06-20, 10:16 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Univega
It is what I had on hand at the time. I used to use WD40 to clean, then let that dry a day. Then lube. I purchased one of those chain cleaning cassettes. I will try that with Dawn (its what have on hand).
Not sure of the ratio of Dawn to water.
Are you familiar with Park Tool Chain Brite? It's just citrus degreaser. You can get a gallon of Zep citrus degreaser concentrate at Home Depot, dilute it 50/50 with water, works every bit as well as the Park cleaner at a fraction of the price. Citrus degreaser rinses off readily, probably easier than Dawn.
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Old 09-06-20, 11:33 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by skidder
I make my living off of health and safety issues, and I'll tell you not to use gasoline. I'll admit I'm not too concerned with it flammability (its just as flammable as a lot of other solvents),
I would disagree about the flammability. While there are solvents with similar flashpoints that might be used in a chemical laboratory, there are few effective solvents that can be used on a bicycle for maintenance. Acetone has a flashpoint of -17°C but it’s mostly useless for cleaning a bicycle. There are some mineral spirit formulations that have lowish flashpoints but none of them are in the same range as gasoline. Low flashpoint mineral spirits has a flashpoint of 20°C. High flashpoint mineral spirits are in the range of >50°C.

Gasoline has such a low flashpoint...-40°C...that it is easy to get to flame. It is also more volatile than mineral spirits so a vapor of air and gasoline hangs over any open container.

I’ll add that it’s been suggested that using gasoline to clean bicycle parts is the equivalent of pouring gas into a lawnmower or putting it into a automotive gas tank. But it really isn’t. Gasoline isn’t poured into a large open container when filling gasoline tank. Washing parts is done in a pan or can and is open. Taking the parts out of the gasoline increases the evaporation of the gasoline, providing a larger vapor cloud for ignition.

but the real danger is the additives the oil companies have put in their gasoline formulas over the last 40-50 years. While those additives are great for improving engine performance and emission reduction, they are really nasty to breath in or absorb through your skin (most of them burn up in the combustion process or get 'treated' in the catalytic convertor). With plenty of other alternative cleaners on the market, there's no reason to use gasoline.
On that I fully agree.

I use a Park clamp-on chain cleaning tool with some diluted Simple Green in it about 1x/month, seems to do a nice job. I might try Pine-Sol since I have a bottle of that around here somewhere (I don't like it for general household cleaning), dishwashing liquid might work, too. If you're really fond of petroleum distillates, try kerosene if its available in your area.
Simple Green will do the job but there is a problem of volume. Since Simple Green is a detergent, much more if it needs to be used to do the job. Diluting the Simple Green just adds water that isn’t doing anything and is, in fact, counterproductive to removing hydrophobic grease and oil. The detergent then needs to be removed with more water. And the water needs to be removed quickly (probably requiring some organic solvent) before the chain rusts. Technically, all of the volume used has oil in it and really shouldn’t be poured down a drain.

Kerosene is okay as a cleaner as is diesel fuel but both leave behind residue that is oily in nature. Mineral spirits evaporates relatively quickly without leaving behind any residue. As a plus, many chain lubricants use mineral spirits as a carrier.

As to Pine-sol, I wouldn’t. It does nothing more than mineral spirits. It also does weird things to your skin. A friend of mine does UV minerals and has a lamp. I used Pine-sol for some kind of cleaning...don’t remember what...and when he turned on the UV lamp, everywhere the Pine-sol had touched on my skin glowed. I don’t know what is in it but it made everything fluorescence.

Bottom line: just use mineral spirits. A cup of mineral spirits will clean a chain to the point where there is more chain lubricant in the mineral spirits than mineral spirits. In real terms, a cup will clean 10 to 12 chains without issue. I put the mineral spirits in a wide mouth Gatorade bottle, snake the chain in, shake vigorously for about 30 seconds (probably less), pull out the chain and hang it in the sun to dry. No extra washing, no rinsing, no need to remove water, and a cup of solvent isn’t difficult to dispose of.
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Old 09-06-20, 11:47 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by wingless
Gasoline and other aggressive solvents are not required when warm water and dish soap are effective at dissolving the stuff attached to the exterior and interior of the chain.
I don’t use gasoline...and vehemently advocate against it...because if its flammability. But I’m almost as vehemently against soap and water because it is totally ineffective or needs huge volumes to be even marginally effective. Solvents aren’t “aggressive”, they are effective or ineffective. The more effective the solvent, the less that needs to be used. Mineral spirits is effective without being (too) dangerous. A gallon of soapy water will do a marginal job with an additional rinse of about a gallon and a further rinse to remove the water with something that will dissolve water and evaporate quickly. As I’ve said above, a cup of mineral spirits will do the job of roughly 24 gallons of soap and water (plus the water chaser solvent)

My observations are that migrating / diluting every bit of internal contamination is the only "difficult" time consuming aspect, requiring multiple solution changes to get super clean.
The problem is that a people spend far too much time “cleaning”, usually because they use something that makes the drivetrain dirty in the first place. Chains really don’t need to be cleaned to the point most people clean them. I “clean” a chain once when I install it. I use a wax based lubricant that keeps the chain clean and I don’t clean the chain again until I change it. Life is really too short to spend hours per week cleaning chains.
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Old 09-06-20, 12:14 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by wingless
I use a jar holding the chain, instead of directly into my heated ultrasonic cleaner bath and the soapy water, permitting multiple solution swaps until chain is clean, clean, clean. I then repeat w/ mineral spirits, followed by denatured alcohol, also in jars, all prior to Molton Speed Wax in my modified wax warmer.

The final result is a drivetrain that remains clean to the touch, dead silent with looong lasting lubrication, unless i get caught in the rain.
Originally Posted by wingless
Gasoline and other aggressive solvents are not required when warm water and dish soap are effective at dissolving the stuff attached to the exterior and interior of the chain.

My observations are that migrating / diluting every bit of internal contamination is the only "difficult" time consuming aspect, requiring multiple solution changes to get super clean.
Originally Posted by cyccommute
But I’m almost as vehemently against soap and water because it is totally ineffective or needs huge volumes to be even marginally effective.

A gallon of soapy water will do a marginal job with an additional rinse of about a gallon and a further rinse to remove the water with something that will dissolve water and evaporate quickly. As I’ve said above, a cup of mineral spirits will do the job of roughly 24 gallons of soap and water (plus the water chaser solvent)

The problem is that a people spend far too much time “cleaning”, usually because they use something that makes the drivetrain dirty in the first place. Chains really don’t need to be cleaned to the point most people clean them. I “clean” a chain once when I install it. I use a wax based lubricant that keeps the chain clean and I don’t clean the chain again until I change it. Life is really too short to spend hours per week cleaning chains.
Sorry I wasn't clear in my post.

My cleaning / lubrication lasts a long time, unless I get caught in the rain.

My usage of dish soap and water in a small jar as the first step in cleaning is very effective, consuming only a small amount of water.

The final steps of mineral spirits and denatured alcohol prior to waxing result in very little contamination to both solvents, remaining saved in their small labeled jars for the next usage.

My chain remains clean to the touch between cleanings / wax application.
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Old 09-06-20, 12:51 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by wingless
Sorry I wasn't clear in my post.

My cleaning / lubrication lasts a long time, unless I get caught in the rain.

My usage of dish soap and water in a small jar as the first step in cleaning is very effective, consuming only a small amount of water.

The final steps of mineral spirits and denatured alcohol prior to waxing result in very little contamination to both solvents, remaining saved in their small labeled jars for the next usage.

My chain remains clean to the touch between cleanings / wax application.
Why add an unnecessary and counter productive step? The soap and water are completely unneeded. What does it accomplish that the mineral spirits doesn’t? From the standpoint of mixing solvents, following the water with mineral spirits doesn’t do anything because the mineral spirits and water don’t mix. If you use alcohol after the water, that will at least remove the water before the mineral spirits, but even that step is totally unnecessary.

I’m assuming that you are waxing the chain. The wax doesn’t need to be removed prior to rewaxing the chain and water isn’t going to do anything to remove the old wax. Mineral spirits will remove everything you need to remove before waxing if you feel you need to remove the wax but why bother? You don’t need to remove the wax. Dropping the chain in the hot wax will remove the old wax and just dissolve it into the hot wax. The hot wax becomes the solvent.

If the chain has some grit on it, it will settle out on the bottom of the pan and can be left there for as long as you like. It does no harm. If the old wax has some grease in it, that won’t hurt anything and even help to soften the canning wax that most people use. Canning wax is a hard wax and it flakes off easily. A softer wax will stick to the chain better and provide better results.

Bike maintenance doesn’t need to be complicated. If you can do something easier, with fewer steps, and the same result, why complicate it?
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Old 09-06-20, 12:56 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Life is really too short to spend hours per week cleaning chains.
My thoughts exactly about trolling on forums.
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Old 09-06-20, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wingless
My thoughts exactly about trolling on forums.
Huh?
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Old 09-06-20, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Huh?
He's saying we need to go ride our bikes.
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Old 09-06-20, 04:05 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious
He's saying we need to go ride our bikes.
Might be a bit too hot today!
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Old 09-06-20, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by diggida
Might be a bit too hot today!
80*F here, 45% humidity. tomorrow in the 90s, 60% humidity :/
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Old 09-06-20, 04:37 PM
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At the end of a long day of bicycle riding, I like to disassemble my chain for a thorough cleaning, just in case some dirt found its way into this assembly.

My experience is that an old toothbrush and pipe cleaners work best for getting everything clean, clean, clean.

At assembly my preference is for all the logos on the outer plates to have identical orientation and to be positioned for correct reading on the top chain span when installed.


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Old 09-06-20, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wingless
At the end of a long day of bicycle riding, I like to disassemble my chain for a thorough cleaning, just in case some dirt found its way into this assembly.

My experience is that an old toothbrush and pipe cleaners work best for getting everything clean, clean, clean.

At assembly my preference is for all the logos on the outer plates to have identical orientation and to be positioned for correct reading on the top chain span when installed.


You wait til the end of the ride? I usually do that a couple times each ride! 😊

Otto
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Old 09-06-20, 06:29 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Ferrouscious
80*F here, 45% humidity. tomorrow in the 90s, 60% humidity :/
I'm from Cleveland, I remember those days! We got nailed here in Los Angeles this weekend. 110 out here on the east side, but cooling back down tomorrow.
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Old 09-06-20, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wingless
At the end of a long day of bicycle riding, I like to disassemble my chain for a thorough cleaning, just in case some dirt found its way into this assembly.

My experience is that an old toothbrush and pipe cleaners work best for getting everything clean, clean, clean.

At assembly my preference is for all the logos on the outer plates to have identical orientation and to be positioned for correct reading on the top chain span when installed.


I haven't been here long enough to know if this is a joke or just how very serious cyclists roll, haha.
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Old 09-06-20, 06:46 PM
  #73  
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Any idea what products he's using (in this Moots drivetrain cleaning video)?

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Old 09-06-20, 06:52 PM
  #74  
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It might be "muc off"
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Old 09-06-20, 07:20 PM
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I've read this entire thread with interest. Haven't read any recommendations for using a pressure washer. I mean, I just wipe down the dirty chain, myself, and lube with Pro-something, shift through the gears, and wipe clean.

But I have a friend who periodically uses a pressure washer to knock the grit off the cassette, chain and chainring. Then foam some WD-40 on the chain, then wipe dry, lube with lube, and wipe again. The grit is gone. The chain is lubed. Just his technique.
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