Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

1x10 vintage bike gravel conversion

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

1x10 vintage bike gravel conversion

Old 07-14-20, 09:34 AM
  #1  
Alexashley52
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
1x10 vintage bike gravel conversion

Hi all,
This is my first post on these forums. I’m converting a 1976 Motobecane Grand Jubilee to a 1x10 gravel bike. I’m using a campy véloce rear derailleur and campy record brakes. The cassette is a standard 10 spd American classic road cassette that’s said to work with campy. I’m wondering about chain line, and what size bottom bracket to order. It’s French threaded so I’m looking at the Vélo Orange square taper bottom bracket. This comes in JIS taper but I’ve seen that using ISO cranks on it is possible. If I went with Campy cranks (ISO) on the JIS bottom bracket (113mm) would that be an issue for my chainline? Any help would be great.
Alexashley52 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 10:15 AM
  #2  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,555
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 841 Times in 475 Posts
I have a jis BB and a Campy crank on my gravel bike. For chainline, I found that a little trial and error is needed.

Mine is 1x10, 40x11-42. I'm pretty sure that AC cassette is nowhere near that range, unless it's nearly flat, it doesn't sound like a good fit for gravel. Is something preventing you from a compact double up front?

What size tires are you planning on? Pretty sure that those brakes will just barely clear 30mm, not a grain of sand more. A Moto from the 70s though, the frame might not even clear that.

Can you shop for a cyclocross bike from the 90s? You'd have a lot better luck converting that.
rosefarts is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 10:19 AM
  #3  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,393 Times in 4,148 Posts
Mixing ISO and JIS isnt advised since they are a different shape and that affects the connection between crank and bottom bracket. It can effectively push a crank out about 4mm due to the poor fit. And there is a chance of the crank breaking, blah blah yada yada.
Im not sure if the bottom bracket you are considering would work as I dont know jack about old square taper Campy crank arms. Are they anything like all other brands from that period and require different bottom bracket lengths depending on the spider and arm design?

Find out the chainline of your crank with a proper bottom bracket. Then buy a JIS bottom bracket that is a 4mm shorter. This will account for the poor fitment and place the chainline effectively where it should be.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 10:39 AM
  #4  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times in 569 Posts
Isn't a gravel bike by definition one that will accept larger than road size tires?

Seems like you are planning on converting a vintage road bike to 1x vintage road bike.
woodcraft is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 10:43 AM
  #5  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,505

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5877 Post(s)
Liked 3,445 Times in 2,066 Posts
Originally Posted by rosefarts
snip . . .

What size tires are you planning on? Pretty sure that those brakes will just barely clear 30mm, not a grain of sand more. A Moto from the 70s though, the frame might not even clear that.

Can you shop for a cyclocross bike from the 90s? You'd have a lot better luck converting that.
Nah this will take a 32c and maybe a little wider. It came stock with 27 x 1 and 1/4 tires. I have a 70s era Motobecane Grand Record (the next model up from this) and it takes 27 x 1 and 1/4 with lots of room to spare. It can take a 35c and maybe wider were I to install 700c wheels on it.
bikemig is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 10:47 AM
  #6  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,505

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5877 Post(s)
Liked 3,445 Times in 2,066 Posts
If you want to convert this bike to a gravel bike, your best bet is to go 650b. That is what most folks do when converting an old bike into a gravel mutt. That should let you run at least a 38c tire. Here are two good resources for thinking about a 650b conversion:

https://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blog...sion-guidlines

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nversions.html

You might be able to get a pretty wide 700c tire there since the bike came stock with 27 x 1 and 1/4 tires. I own and ride a mid 70s Motobecane Grand Record. It has lots of clearance. Here is the original catalog:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nversions.html

If you can get a 700 x 38c tire to fit, then you really don't need to do the 650b conversion.

Are you confident that the BB is French and not Swiss threaded? Also is the rear drop out campy or huret? My guess is campy but if Huret, that will be an issue.

Last edited by bikemig; 07-14-20 at 10:58 AM.
bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 07-14-20, 10:48 AM
  #7  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,555
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 841 Times in 475 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig
Nah this will take a 32c and maybe a little wider. It came stock with 27 x 1 and 1/4 tires. I have a 70s era Motobecane Grand Record (the next model up from this) and it takes 27 x 1 and 1/4 with lots of room to spare. It can take a 35c and maybe wider were I to install 700c wheels on it.
And I have Campy calipers from the 10 speed era. His frame could clear 50mm, doesn't matter, those calipers will fit 30mm.
rosefarts is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 10:51 AM
  #8  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,505

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5877 Post(s)
Liked 3,445 Times in 2,066 Posts
Originally Posted by rosefarts
And I have Campy calipers from the 10 speed era. His frame could clear 50mm, doesn't matter, those calipers will fit 30mm.
Agreed those calipers won't do the job but there are plenty of calipers that will, including the weinman center pulls that came stock on the bike.

The frame won't limit the OP though. The frame has clearance for large volume tires and might be a good option for a gravel mutt.
bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 07-14-20, 11:08 AM
  #9  
GrainBrain
Senior Member
 
GrainBrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 2,655

Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1218 Post(s)
Liked 609 Times in 458 Posts
Subscribing so I don't miss this. Would love to hear more details, I agree with bikemig to go 650b if you have yet to acquire a wheelset. You'll get lower gearing, and be able to get the wheel into the dropout easier. I did an old '74 Japanese bike with stamped drops and 700cx38mm gravel king sk. There was clearance but you had to deflate the rear tire to get it in.

I'd be curious to know what gearing you're doing and where you're riding.
GrainBrain is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 11:19 AM
  #10  
Alexashley52
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
I have checked and the bottom bracket is French threaded, not Swiss. I’m planning to put 700x32 CX tires on it. I am going to have to drill out the back of the brake bridge in order to put the recessed record breaks on the front and back. I have checked and the 32s do clear the breaks just barely. As for the rear derailleur, I am a bit worried that the véloce won’t fit because huret components came stock on the frame.
Alexashley52 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 11:26 AM
  #11  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,505

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5877 Post(s)
Liked 3,445 Times in 2,066 Posts
Just look at the drop out. If it says campy you're good to go with the RD; if it says huret, you will have issues.

I would not drill out the frame for those brakes as they are not a good choice, IMO, for the application. I'm also skeptical that those short reach brakes will hit the rim properly. The bike was built around 27 inch, not 700c, wheels and it came stock with weinman centerpulls likely the 610s which have a reach from 50 to 65 mm. If you want a quality dual pivot brake that is nutted, tektro makes them. The thing to keep in mind is that you will have to piece together different parts to make this work. Also the center pulls that came stock on this bike are fine brakes just use quality pads (kool stop).
bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 07-14-20, 11:30 AM
  #12  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,361 Times in 2,034 Posts
Huret dropouts.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...t-dropout.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...difficult.html
dedhed is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 11:58 AM
  #13  
Alexashley52
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
I did a bit more research and found that the huret dropouts on my bike are still a standard size and the Campy Veloce RD will work on them. As for the 27 wheels, I have already cold set the frame to take 700s and a 10 spd casette. At this point the main worry is that the brake bridge for the Weinmann 610s will be too low for the records to work with a 700x32 cyclocross tire. I have seen that it has been done and I think its possible but if anyone has any experience I would love to know.
Alexashley52 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 01:28 PM
  #14  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,505

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5877 Post(s)
Liked 3,445 Times in 2,066 Posts
Originally Posted by Alexashley52
I did a bit more research and found that the huret dropouts on my bike are still a standard size and the Campy Veloce RD will work on them. As for the 27 wheels, I have already cold set the frame to take 700s and a 10 spd casette. At this point the main worry is that the brake bridge for the Weinmann 610s will be too low for the records to work with a 700x32 cyclocross tire. I have seen that it has been done and I think its possible but if anyone has any experience I would love to know.
That's good that you have a standard drop out.

You don't need to cold set the frame to take a 700c wheel but you did need to spread it to take a wider hub (130 OLD rather than the 120 OLD that came stock on the bike). So you're good to go on the frame.

The brake bride is not "too low." The question is the brake reach. Changing from 27 inch to 700c is an easy conversion but you need a brake caliper that can do the job.

You need to measure that.

This will explain how:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/calipers.html

Then you need to find a brake that has the proper reach. The campy brakes you own are unlikely to do the job.

Last edited by bikemig; 07-14-20 at 01:45 PM.
bikemig is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 01:53 PM
  #15  
Alexashley52
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
After checking, there is no way the campy brakes will work. Any advice on a good pair of nutted long reach calipers that I could use? currently debating if I want to keep the cassette in the rear and go for a 1x10 or go to the tried and true single speed.
Alexashley52 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 02:33 PM
  #16  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,505

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5877 Post(s)
Liked 3,445 Times in 2,066 Posts
Tektro is likely your best bet for a nutted, dual pivot modern brake. The center pulls that came stock on this bike work well especially once you replace the pads with kool stops.
bikemig is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 04:41 PM
  #17  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,361 Times in 2,034 Posts
Tektro 559 are the common "go to" nutted long reach dual pivot brakes for 27/700 conversions.
dedhed is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 04:44 PM
  #18  
Alexashley52
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
I think what I’m going to do is keep the weinmans and replace the pads on those. As for the rest of the bike, I think the best option is to go with a shimano 10 spd cassette, some 10 spd downtube shifters and a cheap ultegra or 105 RD. Cost will stay low and the build will still turn out nice. Any other tips or Info would be great!
Alexashley52 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 04:57 PM
  #19  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,555
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 841 Times in 475 Posts
Originally Posted by Alexashley52
I think what I’m going to do is keep the weinmans and replace the pads on those. As for the rest of the bike, I think the best option is to go with a shimano 10 spd cassette, some 10 spd downtube shifters and a cheap ultegra or 105 RD. Cost will stay low and the build will still turn out nice. Any other tips or Info would be great!
You're actually building a bike similar to mine except mine is a 90s cross bike. I have a similar mish mash of parts though.

For the climbing involved in gravel, plus with wider tires you need lower gears to get the same gear inches - I'd suggest 11-42 or 11-36 in 10 speed. I have both and swap accordingly.

Do you already have shifters? I bet they would move through that range on friction, so maybe save $100? Otherwise, Microshift bar end shifters are the way to go. They make them in both road pull and mountain pull. That gives you the option for a clutched SLX deraileur. Or whatever, because friction.

That Campy crank is 135 BCD. You can get 40t narrow wide rings for 1x in that size, not smaller. J&L on eBay. Repeat after me, 135bcd, if you can't remember that, I've got a brand new 130bcd ring I'll sell you (that's a Campy vs Shimano nerd joke).
rosefarts is offline  
Old 07-15-20, 12:28 PM
  #20  
theDirtyLemon
Senior Member
 
theDirtyLemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by Alexashley52
I think what I’m going to do is keep the weinmans and replace the pads on those. As for the rest of the bike, I think the best option is to go with a shimano 10 spd cassette, some 10 spd downtube shifters and a cheap ultegra or 105 RD. Cost will stay low and the build will still turn out nice. Any other tips or Info would be great!
Sounds like a great, practical, build.
Out of curiosity, why did you decide to move away from the campy derailleuer?
theDirtyLemon is offline  
Old 07-15-20, 01:55 PM
  #21  
bluehills3149
Full Member
 
bluehills3149's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brooklyn USA
Posts: 400

Bikes: depends what week it is..

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 47 Posts
I converted an 80's Nishiki road bike (CrMo frame and 27" wheels) to 700c wheels and brifters. I used Tektro mid length brakes and 700x32 tires. I also used an old MTB crank set (42/32/22) and removed the 22 chainring to allow the original front derailleur to work and not have to buy a longer crank spindle and the gearing was very good. Whatever cranks you choose, for a gravel bike you will probably need lower gearing than the typical vintage cranks (often 52/42 or 52/39) unless you live somewhere very flat.
I also recommend using brifters as when riding gravel you are often confronted with rough terrain requiring two hands on the bars and the simultaneous need to change gears quickly but this is difficult with downtube shifters. Note also that for downtube 10spd, only Durace shifters are available and they are rare and expensive so it's probably cheaper to get an olld set of 105 shifters off ebay. Friction shifting is going to be even more of a hassle when the going gets rough.
bluehills3149 is offline  
Old 07-15-20, 01:58 PM
  #22  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,505

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5877 Post(s)
Liked 3,445 Times in 2,066 Posts
Bar end shifters work fine for gravel as well and are not too expensive. I'd be tempted to go with a double though rather than 1 x 10.
bikemig is offline  
Old 07-16-20, 08:02 PM
  #23  
Alexashley52
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Moved away from the campy because the price is a bit too steep for just the derailleur and I want to be able to fit a 11-36 at least. What type of derailleur should I look at getting for the rear if I wanted to run an 11-40 on the 1x in the front? Would I be able to use a medium cage ultegra or something like that and have good shifting? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Alexashley52 is offline  
Old 07-16-20, 08:06 PM
  #24  
Alexashley52
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
And another question, if I want to use aero levers with centerpull brakes is that possible with the cabling?
Alexashley52 is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 12:32 PM
  #25  
GrainBrain
Senior Member
 
GrainBrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 2,655

Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1218 Post(s)
Liked 609 Times in 458 Posts
Microshift 1x11 bar end shifter, Deore 11 speed RD, SLX 11 speed 11-40.
GrainBrain is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.