Mr. 66

Here is big brown, I picked this up last weekend at the Bikeworks sale and it just looked sporty. It was adorn with all Japanese parts and 27" wheels when purchased. The lack of clearance at the fork made me believe this was 700 wheeled originaly. I've placed the frame on 700 wheels for the pictures.









There are 2 holes top to bottom about 1 3/8 inches apart.


Metallic Coca Cola, size 64 x 59 cm, Italian threading 70mm bb, a 26.6 seatpost, 120 spacing. Before I tore it down I thought it was French because it had a 26.4 post so that got spread. Chrome on the rear end only?! No chrome up front. Campy tips and dropouts, it looks sleeved and crimped at the rear. The tips are very thin, they are forged but thinner than most are forged.

I could not identify a serial number on the frame. It has a stamp on the fork CCRF•31.

Mr. 66

Flat at the cap edge and domes in the middle

Drillium Dude 

I would suspect the fork is a replacement since the finishing of the ends is night and day when compared to the stay/dropout transitions at the rear triangle. No idea about an ID on either the frame or fork, however.

DD

dddd

I'm thinking I've seen older Bottecchia frames having similar stay crimping. This one looks relatively crude but I don't know what you meant by the dropouts being thinner than normal for forged dropouts(?).

I can't recall another frameset having a serial # on the fork leg, but it seems that this fork might not be the original (because of the lack of chromed tips).

P!N20

Agreed. Looking at the distances to the brake holes, the fork could well be for 700c and the rear 27".

Bianchigirll 

Italavega?

Welcome to the "it looks nice but I have no idea" club.

juvela

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headset Tange MA-60

crown a modified Vagner DP+; a common practice by a number of artisanal builders

paint colour of fork appears not to match that of frame

crimping of stays to dropouts makes me think of Teodoro Carnielli

leaning toward idea that frame may be a Carnielli product ca. 1970

unfortunate that paint finish in fairly good nick; if it were poorer one could explore more aggressively for a serial...

at least some Bottecchia head emblems employ a horizontal fastener arrangement as here:




do not have access to me headplate collection at present to check for others

Carnielli certainly produced cycles under other names as well...

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juvela

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have never seen a single Torresini product which exhibits this crimping of stays

they also do not fold over the seat stay tops but close the seat stays with separate pieces

cheaper models use "bullet" seat stays

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Mr. 66

Hey thanks, Yes very crud at the dropout, and a very long dropout to the stay crimp, here's a picture of the one from a '64 bianchi, and the new bike.

Also a picture of the fork tip thickness, I guess that looks normal to the compared.

The number is on the steer tube, not the leg, sorry about that I didn't specify I should have.

Mr. 66

Looks like someone nicked the serial number off the BB.



Now I definitely see difference in colors from frame to fork

juvela

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back in the day when frame was still mated to the original fork the crown would have been Agrati pattern "BRIANZA" nr. 000.8038.




the "BRIANZA" pattern crown was also offered without cutouts as on this Torresini product belonging to our RandyJ:



suspect cycle may have begun life as the Giro d'Italia model, just an idea...

NB - in case you are curious as to serial you might be able to bring it up with etching solution. law enforcement frequently does this when they recover suspected stolen items whose serials have been ground away.

find it interesting to note that the person doing the grinding made no attempt to disguise their work. left it rough for all the world to see what they had done...

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Charles Wahl

Bottechias did come with vertical badge holes:


But the terminations of the stays on the bike pictured here don't match the OP photos. I thought Italvega myself on first glance.

Chombi1 

Hmmm..... that frame must have been a "kidnap" victim, once upon a time, in its life.....
I noticed that the BB shell chainstay sockets looks to have been peened to hold the chainstay tubes before brazing.
Seen that before but I don't think it's that common.

juvela

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Thank you for this post!

This headplate would have been the correct one for the frame if it were badged as an Ottavio.

IIRC the spacing for the fasteners holes on this headplate is 45mm. (have a couple in me collection but no access to them at the moment.)

45mm lines up pretty closely with Mr.66's measurement of 1 3/8".


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juvela

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this frame construction technique is referred to as pinning and frames which exhibit it are said to be "pinned." quite common on production frames.


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zukahn1 

It looks to have ISO standard vertical Badge holes that date it 73-80 or so a bike of this level if made later would have a much tighter rear triangle and braze on's for bottle cages and shifter's. Not much help but a very nice frame set well worth saving working on.