Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Building a rando bike - where to focus the money?

Reply

Old 07-19-18, 09:55 AM
  #26  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,223

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 859 Post(s)
I run the extralights on my long distance bikes which run 700x32 & 38c tires, and they are as good as everyone says. I buy them three at a time and it really pains me to see the bill for $250 for three tires, but I haven't found a 32 or 38c tire that I'd rather use for randonneuring. I don't really keep track of mileage, but I would guess a rear tire lasts 2-3,000k and a front tire double that.
kingston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 10:06 AM
  #27  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 18,366

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 348 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1212 Post(s)
Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Sometimes the ad writer/editor almost has me. I wouldn't mind so much dropping some $$ to try those tires, but I keep wondering, how do they last when comparing with other similar size tires on similar (paved) roads?
I have been using Compass Rat Trap Pass tires on one bike, and Pacenti Pari-Moto tires on another. I can't say there's any difference in their durability. On both bikes I replaced the rear tire after several thousand miles. One of the RTP's had got misshapen (I think because it didn't seat well on that rim) and when I built new wheels for that bike, I chose to use a new tire. The new tire and the new rim were a better match. As far as I can remember, my RTP tires have never had a puncture. I also replaced one of the Pari-Moto tires, late at night on the BRB 1200 last month. The tire was going flat, I was riding with three other riders, and I didn't want to slow them down by trying to figure out what had caused my flat. I replaced both tire and tube and we rolled on down the road with little delay. On later inspection, I found there is a band around 10-15 mm wide down where the tread has worn off. Over the life of that tire I think I had had three punctures.

It's anecdotal evidence, of course, but my experience is that these tires hold up well enough. I've certainly had worse luck with cheaper tires such as Paselas.
__________________
I put new leather on ruined saddles like Brooks, etc. You can reach me by private message.
rhm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 10:08 AM
  #28  
Bandera 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,469
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
A different era and a different discipline of the sport but buying handmade silk casing Clement Criterium Setas for the race wheels was far more expensive than training tubulars, but far less expensive than losing the front in a Crit in a season ending crash. It's been no secret that high quality supple tires well fitted to rider weight and properly inflated are the way to go for performance in all aspects, but have never been inexpensive.
That being said, do Brevet riders have two wheel-sets to swap w/ lighter, more aero and better shod set for events and training wheels to mule out the big endurance rides, lousy weather and town miles?

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 10:50 AM
  #29  
Chesterton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 190

Bikes: Pashley Roadster Sovereign, 1970 Raleigh Sports, Yuba Mundo, 1990 Schwinn World Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
I have no experience with the Compass tires, but they are advertised as getting several thousand kms, which seems like good value. My Paselas lasted not quite two seasons, definitely less than 2,000 km.
Chesterton is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 11:04 AM
  #30  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,223

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 859 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
That being said, do Brevet riders have two wheel-sets to swap w/ lighter, more aero and better shod set for events and training wheels to mule out the big endurance rides, lousy weather and town miles?
I can't speak for all randonneurs, but I have different bikes. My long distance bikes with compass tires are reserved for longer brevets. For training miles and JRA I prefer a different everything; geometry, gearing, wheels, tires, luggage, etc. It's the main thing that prevents me from getting myself a really nice randonneuring bike. I only use it a few times a year.
kingston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 11:57 AM
  #31  
Bandera 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,469
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I can't speak for all randonneurs, but I have different bikes. My long distance bikes with compass tires are reserved for longer brevets. For training miles and JRA I prefer a different everything; geometry, gearing, wheels, tires, luggage, etc. It's the main thing that prevents me from getting myself a really nice randonneuring bike. I only use it a few times a year.
I'm not descended from the Princess Who Could not Abide the Pea but it takes a week or so to transition from the winter/wet bike back onto the newly serviced CF road bike before doing any hard efforts even though both are carefully fitted. The FG is a whole other deal requiring a good bit of seat time to re-adapt to the relentless nature and specific techniques of hours of never being in the "right" gear and getting up and over anyway.

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 12:02 PM
  #32  
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,585
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
My thoughts:
9 speed/10 speed/11 speed- zero difference in riding and usability- but check at your bike shop as to parts availability on the different components. I think my shop upgraded my older bike from 9 to 10 speed because some of the 9-speed stuff wasn't available.
The Big Handlebar Bag (edited) Issue- considered essential by a lot of users, but hardly anyone around here uses one, and nobody seems the worse off for it, either.
Moving parts- I'd go with the higher-end in terms of quality, not necessarily weight. Your bottom bracket WILL go out sometime, somewhere, so the longer you can stave that off, the less likely to DNF on a ride.
Big tires- I use them for gravel rides, use 28's for everything else- don't go bigger unless you have specific reason to do so.
If there's a lot of parts where you just don't know the difference, buy a ready-built-up bike, otherwise, you're paying extra to have exactly the part you don't care about used there.
Generator hubs are great because you always have lights ready. I used to use battery systems, and I'd come in from a ride and forget to charge it for next time.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

Last edited by StephenH; 07-22-18 at 10:49 PM.
StephenH is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 12:28 PM
  #33  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,223

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 859 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
I'm not descended from the Princess Who Could not Abide the Pea but it takes a week or so to transition from the winter/wet bike back onto the newly serviced CF road bike before doing any hard efforts even though both are carefully fitted. The FG is a whole other deal requiring a good bit of seat time to re-adapt to the relentless nature and specific techniques of hours of never being in the "right" gear and getting up and over anyway.
I guess I'm lucky that way. None of my bikes ride or fit the same and I have no problem going from one to another, even the fixed-gear. What is a little odd to me is that I have no problem riding fixed for pretty long distances, but on all my geared bikes I have swapped out wide-ratio cassettes for narrow spacing which seems to work better for me. I never have quite figured that one out.
kingston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 01:04 PM
  #34  
Bandera 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,469
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I guess I'm lucky that way. None of my bikes ride or fit the same and I have no problem going from one to another, even the fixed-gear. What is a little odd to me is that I have no problem riding fixed for pretty long distances, but on all my geared bikes I have swapped out wide-ratio cassettes for narrow spacing which seems to work better for me. I never have quite figured that one out.
Adaption to riding a FG and being capable of riding close ratios effectively are part and parcel of the Old School training techniques when limited gear ranges were the norm and the capability of putting out both grunt or spin on demand as adaption to the FG winter base miles required carried over into the racing season. There is no substitute for good technique, a fair bit of power and some grit.

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 01:15 PM
  #35  
Craptacular8
Senior Member
 
Craptacular8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 467
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Tires

Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I run the extralights on my long distance bikes which run 700x32 & 38c tires, and they are as good as everyone says. I buy them three at a time and it really pains me to see the bill for $250 for three tires, but I haven't found a 32 or 38c tire that I'd rather use for randonneuring. I don't really keep track of mileage, but I would guess a rear tire lasts 2-3,000k and a front tire double that.
Good to know. I've got a little under a thousand miles on a set of Bon Jon's in the standard casing on a bike I do gravel and touring on. Love them. I try to be pretty careful, but know I've ridden over debris with them and no ill effects. Ditto for the extralite 32's on another gravel/road bike. I've been less lucky on the extralite 28's...two flats in the last month with only a few hundred on them. I'm hoping I don't repeat that too often, but suspect that supple casing I enjoy so much is a bit of a magnet for pointy bits when its in a smaller package like the 28's.
Craptacular8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 02:43 PM
  #36  
clasher
Senior Member
 
clasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 2,236
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
I ride both my current rando bikes with their supple tires for all kinds of other rides, the compass tires have almost 3000km on them and the only flat I had was from leaning it against an air conditioner that somehow popped the tube. My roadie has 28mm vittoria corsa tires and I get 2000km from the rear and more from the front, sometimes I'll go through 3 tires in a season but the cost hasn't bothered me enough to build another set of wheels just for training.
clasher is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 02:43 PM
  #37  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,223

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 859 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Adaption to riding a FG and being capable of riding close ratios effectively are part and parcel of the Old School training techniques when limited gear ranges were the norm and the capability of putting out both grunt or spin on demand as adaption to the FG winter base miles required carried over into the racing season. There is no substitute for good technique, a fair bit of power and some grit.
I don't claim to know if one technique is better than another, but I have found that riding fixed in the spring helps prevent sore knees and riding a lot of fixed in the spring makes it annoying to ride wide-ratio cassettes in the summer. It stinks because the trend in the market seems to be moving towards wider and wider ratios.
kingston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 04:22 PM
  #38  
Bandera 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,469
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
I am fond of the now obsolescent 10 cog cassettes. For me there never has been the need for an 11T top cog ever. Swapping from 12-23/25/27/28 depending on fitness/distance/load/terrain on whichever road bike/wheel-set is being ridden takes just a few minutes. Having only the lowest cog needed to climb the steepest pitch on a ride w/o undue stress and cramming as many between that and the 12T is good to go for me.

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 06:14 PM
  #39  
Chesterton
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 190

Bikes: Pashley Roadster Sovereign, 1970 Raleigh Sports, Yuba Mundo, 1990 Schwinn World Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Swapping from 12-23/25/27/28 depending on fitness/distance/load/terrain on whichever road bike/wheel-set is being ridden takes just a few minutes.
Is it that easy to swap out cassettes? You don't have to adjust the chain length or derailleur positioning at all? Good to know!
Chesterton is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-18, 06:50 PM
  #40  
Bandera 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,469
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Chesterton View Post
Is it that easy to swap out cassettes? You don't have to adjust the chain length or derailleur positioning at all? Good to know!
Modern cassettes really changed the way we set-up bikes for a parcours from the old days of freewheels.
The Friday night before a race we'd have a team of guys using the bench vises and a variety of FW pullers to swap from straight blocks to road gearing and using the bike stands checking that spacing really was the same.
Now a properly set-up machine w/ the chain length to handle the max capacity, a chain whip and cassette lock-ring tool gets it done in 10 minutes from TT gearing to mountains w/ no guesswork or monkey motion.
Taking a couple of cassette ranges along w/ the tool box to an event is cheap insurance for finding out that "chain-drop hill" has been added to this years' event, but the promoter forgot to tell anyone.....

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-18, 07:12 AM
  #41  
joewein
Senior Member
 
joewein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 454

Bikes: Elephant Bikes National Forest Explorer, Bike Friday Pocket Rocket

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I keep wondering, how do they last when comparing with other similar size tires on similar (paved) roads?
FWIW, I swapped my Compass Babyshoe Pass EL (650B x 42mm) for a new pair at over 9,000 km, not because they were threadbare but because I felt safer without the cuts in the center of the tread that had accumulated over the distance. I have also used the standard BSP (non-EL) for about 4,000 km and they have plenty of wear left (I went back to the EL).

Both the BSP and the BSP EL are fantastic tires, worth every cent in my opinion: Very supple and fast, but with minimal puncture risk. I've had two punctures in 17,500 km / 30 months.

Last edited by joewein; 07-24-18 at 06:21 AM.
joewein is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-18, 11:29 AM
  #42  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 16,911
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Just a data point, the Gravel King slicks I had rode really well, but I doubt I got 2000 miles out of them. And the rear tire was missing tread, had worn through to the casing. I'm thinking the compass might be more economical
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep
unterhausen is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service