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Why cloth panniers?

Old 08-21-19, 05:35 PM
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TiHabanero
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Why cloth panniers?

Got to thinking about this, and am wondering why cloth is the choice for pannier construction? Motorbikes have hard cases, why not bicycles? Weight? Cost?
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Old 08-21-19, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
Got to thinking about this, and am wondering why cloth is the choice for pannier construction? Motorbikes have hard cases, why not bicycles? Weight? Cost?
Well mr ti, while there were and are hard cases on motorsickles, nearly 40 years ago I had a snazzy red cordura tank bag that strapped onto my snazzy red Yamaha. It came in handy holding my Nikon on it one handed to take a rather blurry photo of the tach and speedo during a top speed run at 180 or so kph. The dumbass stuff we did eh?

for push bikes, I reckon space and cost considerations, handy frankly they can be smaller when empty...
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Old 08-21-19, 06:56 PM
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My guess is they weigh a good bit more, maybe 2x or 3x.
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Old 08-21-19, 07:27 PM
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Back in my shop days a guy came in on a custom framed bike with nice cream colored custom paint and color-matched hard bags, all with contrasting pinstriping. It was a sweet setup but did not look too practical. Most any soft bags of the day would have held more. But it looked nice, if you could get past the weirdness of the total package. The guy seemed normal otherwise.
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Old 08-21-19, 08:40 PM
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Old 08-21-19, 09:33 PM
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I'm not sure if the company who makes these is still in business or not.
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Old 08-21-19, 10:09 PM
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Opportunity knocking...

https://www.bikebiz.com/bikebins-inv...-for-business/
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Old 08-21-19, 10:35 PM
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Nice one there Mr Kingston!
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Old 08-21-19, 10:43 PM
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And re the whole hard case thing
It's all fun and games until you have a little crash, or your bike gets blown over by the wind against something hard and sharp edged, or you need to put your pannier flat in the bike box for the plane, or make it small empty to fit into a bag with other full panniers to go into the hold of the plane, or to have one as carry on and you need for it to fit into the metal framed template to allow it to be carry on.....

For me, all this stuff are the deal breakers and why pee wee didn't fly with his bike--great bike though isn't it, hadn't seen a photo of it in years.
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Old 08-22-19, 05:35 AM
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The real question is why not?
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Old 08-22-19, 06:18 AM
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There is a considerable cost difference as well as weight between the hard and soft bags I've used for long distance motorcycling.
Add in a range of propitiatory mounting hardware to outfit a variety of frame designs and sizes and you have an expensive complicated no-start business model for bicycles.
How many "baggers" do we see in cycling these day? Not many at all and those seem well served with the variety of traditional and new design soft luggage.
Ever see the result of dumping a hard-case equipped motorcycle off it's kickstand in a parking lot? Not good. With soft bags, not so bad.

Other than stylishly matching bags to a motorcycle why spend all that $$$ on hard-cases?
Security and weather protection. A locked case that accepts a $$$ helmet and $$$ riding jacket during a lunch stop and keeps a change of clothes dry after an all day run at 70 mph engulfed in a rain front is worth the price to LD motorcyclists.

For bicycles an answer to a question that I've never heard asked, until now.

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 08-22-19 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 08-22-19, 06:21 AM
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Weight is probably a big reason. Ease of taking the shape of varying loads is another. Probably cost as well. Also you can crush a cloth pannier and not damage it. The contents are usually mostly soft stuff, at least in my experience so not prone too damage from crushing. Or at least the items that are prone to crush or impact damage can be protected by the soft items.

I'd suggest that bicycle panniers have more in common with backpacks than motorcycle panniers. At least they do in the way I use them and I'd consider soft panniers even on my motorcycle if I was to do a long camping tour on it.

If someone were to make a hard shell bicycle pannier that was as light, cheap, and durable as a cloth one it might sell, but I am not sure that even then it would be better. I'd likely still stick with soft ones.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:54 AM
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I use kitty liter buckets, getting much harder to find now since everyone has switched over to pour buckets versus the nice ones they used to use. They are the perfect size for a bike and you can get them for free. Add a little mounting hardware and you have your hard shell panniers which are water proof as an added bonus. I don't waste money unless I just have to. More money = more money to travel with/travel longer with.
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Old 08-22-19, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bikenh
I use kitty liter buckets, getting much harder to find now since everyone has switched over to pour buckets versus the nice ones they used to use. They are the perfect size for a bike and you can get them for free. Add a little mounting hardware and you have your hard shell panniers which are water proof as an added bonus. I don't waste money unless I just have to. More money = more money to travel with/travel longer with.
I have used kitty liter buckets for various stuff around the house. I left a couple sitting out for a few weeks and was surprised to find the stuff in them not just wet, but actual sloshing water in them. I emptied them and made sure the seals were sealed and left them out just to see if they maybe they just weren't sealed the first time. Again, they got quite wet inside.

They were the ones with the hinged top, where you open 2/3 while 1/3 stays put and I am in Tallahassee where we have been having some pretty torrential thunderstorms, but they weren't very dry at all. Not sure if it is just the brand of bucket and others are better, but I wouldn't trust these lids with keeping stuff dry in a hard rain. I think they'd be fine if fitted with some kind of shower cap type cover for the top or something, but as is they seem to be a fail. They are bigger I'd need and heavier than I'd want any way so I am not inclined to try them as panniers, but I'd advise caution for those who do.

FWIW, they were rectangular Purina Tidy Cats buckets.

After a bit of use the hinged top tends to crack at the hinge. One had only a hint of a crack at one end of the hinge, it was hardly noticeable, the other had more of a crack. I was kind of baffled how that much water got in the one that barely showed a hint of a crack.
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Old 08-22-19, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
I have used kitty liter buckets for various stuff around the house. I left a couple sitting out for a few weeks and was surprised to find the stuff in them not just wet, but actual sloshing water in them. I emptied them and made sure the seals were sealed and left them out just to see if they maybe they just weren't sealed the first time. Again, they got quite wet inside.

They were the ones with the hinged top, where you open 2/3 while 1/3 stays put and I am in Tallahassee where we have been having some pretty torrential thunderstorms, but they weren't very dry at all. Not sure if it is just the brand of bucket and others are better, but I wouldn't trust these lids with keeping stuff dry in a hard rain. I think they'd be fine if fitted with some kind of shower cap type cover for the top or something, but as is they seem to be a fail. They are bigger I'd need and heavier than I'd want any way so I am not inclined to try them as panniers, but I'd advise caution for those who do.

FWIW, they were rectangular Purina Tidy Cats buckets.

After a bit of use the hinged top tends to crack at the hinge. One had only a hint of a crack at one end of the hinge, it was hardly noticeable, the other had more of a crack. I was kind of baffled how that much water got in the one that barely showed a hint of a crack.
Put duct tape over the crack, it's flexible and will still let you lift the lid while keeping the water out. Possibly put electrical tape over the crack first and then add the sticky duct tape over top of it.

They held up for me for an 8300 mile trip back in 2015 and I still use them all the time now around home.
I did find they are great for abrasion resistance when you find yourself dragging them behind you, unplanne d on, after rack inserts failed on me. I doubt regular panniers would have held up as well.
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Old 08-22-19, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bikenh
Put duct tape over the crack, it's flexible and will still let you lift the lid while keeping the water out. Possibly put electrical tape over the crack first and then add the sticky duct tape over top of it.

They held up for me for an 8300 mile trip back in 2015 and I still use them all the time now around home.
I did find they are great for abrasion resistance when you find yourself dragging them behind you, unplanne d on, after rack inserts failed on me. I doubt regular panniers would have held up as well.
Given how minimal the crack was and how easily a crack may show up without warning, I'd advise taping preemptively with good tape, maybe gator tape or at least real high grade duct tape.
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Old 08-22-19, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bikenh
I doubt regular panniers would have held up as well.
I doubt that commercially produced soft panniers would have fallen off in the 1st place.

As always, suit yourself.

-Bandera
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Old 08-22-19, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
I doubt that commercially produced soft panniers would have fallen off in the 1st place.

As always, suit yourself.

-Bandera
I did once have the hardware fail on a cloth pannier and it got dragged at speed. It survived surprisingly well.

Last edited by staehpj1; 08-22-19 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:40 AM
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Why indeed

Why indeed:


There are several different types of these inexpensive motorcycle panniers that you can find online at Amazon etc. Many are much too large and heavy, but a few are small enough for a bicycle and they're actually less expensive than many of the bicycle panniers I was looking at. It did involve some creative fabrication to mount them, but wasn't all that difficult. I've had them for 3 years and while they've served me well, I must admit that they're certainly not for everyone. For the credit card touring and day trips that I do though, they've worked out very well, however for those who are traveling cross country with lots of camping gear etc, they're probably not a great choice. They lock closed so are a little more secure, and since they're made of ABS plastic, they're completely waterproof. The smaller ones on my Trek 520 weigh about the same as the Nashbar Cloth Panniers I used to have, but don't hold quite as much. The larger ones on my Haro 29er, which I use more as my winter / utility bike, hold quite a bit, but are a little (but not 2 or 3 times) heavier. Nevertheless, I've traveled over a lot of mountainous terrain with both bikes and haven't noticed any additional weight when climbing the big hills. In fact, on the Trek, with the more streamlined panniers, I do notice less wind resistance when going downhill or into a stiff headwind. Here's the Haro: The ABS panniers are vulnerable to getting scratched, but I found when I banged up one of them in a bad fall on my 520, that even the deepest scratches could be fixed pretty easily with a little ABS cement, sandpaper, spray paint and polishing compound. Smaller scratches rub out easily with just polishing compound and car wax. Considering the severity of the fall, and that the damage was only cosmetic, I think their durability, at least in this instance, proved to be much better than I would have expected. A similar fall I had some years back did significant damage to the fabric panniers that I had at the time too, so it doesn't seem to be as much of a differentiator as you might think. Lastly, though it shouldn't be a significant consideration to anyone, I can't tell you how many compliments I've gotten on them. While I was passing a local swimming hole recently, I heard someone shout out to his friend, "Hey look, it's that guy with the cool bike".

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Old 08-22-19, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
I did once have the hardware fail on a cloth pannier and it got dragged at speed. It survived surprisingly well.
Oh I've had commercially made cloth panniers fall off several times over the years. Once, when I was in Florida, the one with my wallet in it fell off, and I didn't notice it right away. I backtracked and found it pretty quickly, but it made for a few anxious moments! When I got home, I took them off and never used them again. 'Sold em at our next yard sale.
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Old 08-22-19, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by hfbill
Once, when I was in Florida, the one with my wallet in it fell off, and I didn't notice it right away. I backtracked and found it pretty quickly, but it made for a few anxious moments!
Just me, but...
I have never taken an actual wallet on tour, preferring something more minimal like either a plastic sleeve, or a ziploc bag, but whatever I used was never in a pannier. It was always somewhere that it either automatically or at least easily stayed with me at all times. Sometimes in a jersey pocket, sometimes a handlebar bag, and sometimes a little belt pack that just fit a phone and some wallet type stuff. I liked that solution pretty well. On the last trip I even used a tiny backpack for that some of the time. I don't like having to dig in panniers during the day.

On another note. I'd imagine digging for stuff is easier in your hard panniers. Also I agree the aero drag is probably significantly better.

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Old 08-22-19, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bikenh
I use kitty liter buckets, getting much harder to find now since everyone has switched over to pour buckets versus the nice ones they used to use. They are the perfect size for a bike and you can get them for free. Add a little mounting hardware and you have your hard shell panniers which are water proof as an added bonus. I don't waste money unless I just have to. More money = more money to travel with/travel longer with.
I made a pair myself like this. They are awesome for going to the grocery store and loading up, running loads of laundry down to a laundromat, and make awesome utility panniers, but I wouldn't tour with these. Also, long term, I am going to need to keep finding lids as they wear out from flipping them up and down unless I figure out a DIY solution for it long term. Also, they are not as easy to find if you don't know anyone with cats. I searched high and low and it wasn't an easy task. I could find them online for about $15 a container shipped to me. They cost about $15 full at a Pet Smart. So I went down to pet smart, waited for someone to buy the kind I needed, and made them a deal. I would buy one extra one for them, we dump them out, and I keep the containers. The woman I pitched it too thought about it for a long minute and then realized she had extra trash bags in her car that we could dump them into and instantly jumped on it. So bring some heavy duty garbage bags with you so there is no real thought into it and they realize they are getting twice the amount for the price of one, it's a good deal. You get two of them for cheaper then what you can have them shipped to you online for that are already emptied and never used. Outside of that, I couldn't find them anywhere and I was checking Craigslist, ebay, local restaurants for their food containers, and even restaurant supply warehouses. The only way I could find them was to offer to buy one for someone to get the containers.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bike Jedi
I made a pair myself like this. They are awesome for going to the grocery store and loading up, running loads of laundry down to a laundromat, and make awesome utility panniers, but I wouldn't tour with these. Also, long term, I am going to need to keep finding lids as they wear out from flipping them up and down unless I figure out a DIY solution for it long term. Also, they are not as easy to find if you don't know anyone with cats. I searched high and low and it wasn't an easy task. I could find them online for about $15 a container shipped to me. They cost about $15 full at a Pet Smart. So I went down to pet smart, waited for someone to buy the kind I needed, and made them a deal. I would buy one extra one for them, we dump them out, and I keep the containers. The woman I pitched it too thought about it for a long minute and then realized she had extra trash bags in her car that we could dump them into and instantly jumped on it. So bring some heavy duty garbage bags with you so there is no real thought into it and they realize they are getting twice the amount for the price of one, it's a good deal. You get two of them for cheaper then what you can have them shipped to you online for that are already emptied and never used. Outside of that, I couldn't find them anywhere and I was checking Craigslist, ebay, local restaurants for their food containers, and even restaurant supply warehouses. The only way I could find them was to offer to buy one for someone to get the containers.
That is an enormous amount of monkey-motion to get some kitty-litter containers.
Congratulations, I guess.

-Bandera
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Old 08-23-19, 04:40 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Bandera
That is an enormous amount of monkey-motion to get some kitty-litter containers.
Congratulations, I guess.

-Bandera
FWIW, While I don't use them for panniers, I got mine easily and free by dumb luck. I was driving down a residential street and there were maybe 25-30 of them set out for bulk pickup trash day. I find it hard to imagine one household accumulated that many. I am guessing maybe they owned a kennel that boarded cats (maybe a good source for buckets if they don't buy it in big bags). I grabbed eight buckets to use for various storage functions around home. I'd have actually preferred round buckets like what they sell at Lowes or Home Depot (about $5 with a lid) since the round ones have better seals. They aren't suitable for panniers though.

If anyone is close enough to Tallahassee to swap in person I'd be happy to swap a pair of Tidy Cats buckets for a pair of round ones in good condition. I think I still have a pair or two that I have not even used, and a couple that have been used more. I'd rather not deal with shipping though. PM me if interested.

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Old 08-23-19, 05:09 AM
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BTW, I noticed that ULINE sells square buckets in black or white. They have a 4 gallon one that is $5.90 if you buy 5 (the minimum purchase). Lids are $1.50. For my address for 5 buckets shipping via UPS ground was $17 something.

The buckets are square in cross section rather than rectangular so about the same width, but shorter front to back as they would be oriented on the bike. The lids are not hinged, but solid one piece.

Not something I am interested in, but I saw it and thought I'd share as another possible option.
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-13650W/
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-13650BL/

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