Obsessing over weight
01-14-16, 11:52 AM
#101
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Suggesting that reducing body weight (if one is overweight) can be as or even more effective as reducing bike weight is not the same as saying that someone doesn't deserve a fancy high dollar bike. Clearly the comment can be made without judging... I wonder why some are so easily offended by it.
The psychological benefit of knowing a fancy bike is capable of much more than a particular rider can get from it means very little, since it can be said of any bike.
The psychological benefit of knowing a fancy bike is capable of much more than a particular rider can get from it means very little, since it can be said of any bike.
Loosing body weight in an already fit rider will generally bring power loss. But getting the bike lighter using equally capable components has no such risk.
01-14-16, 12:25 PM
#102
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If I Think my bike is better, it is, only because I think so. If I enjoy riding my bike more because I saved 600 grams on my wheels, then my bike Is better, because I think so. That is a "psychological benefit." Even if I Know my bike is no "faster" and no "better" by any measurable degree in regards to my use of or performance on the bike ... it is "better" in my mind. Therefore I enjoy it more, and maybe because of that try a little harder now and then. Maybe I am more apt to think "I can do this" because in my mind I know my bike is "better" because I saved a pound and a half on the wheelset. (Shoot, I feel faster already and I haven't even put them on my bike yet.)
Maybe my average speed and ride time over a route doesn't change even a millisecond, but I measure quality of life in terms of emotion, not numbers. Others can do as they see fit.
Oh, my new wheels? They are the hottest new brand--"Placebos." They dramatically increase the psychological performance of the bike and rider ... and they make me handsomer and smarter too. I am shopping for a "Placebo"-brand frame next.
01-14-16, 01:12 PM
#103
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I've always liked his experiment, but you have to understand that he's only talking about the weight going up a hill, and the extra rolling resistance from more weight (which is trivial). And his discussion about getting the energy back downhill is silly.
There is a lot more to it than the weight, and I suppose that's the tie-in with this thread. Position, tires, and even (perhaps) wheels make more difference unless we're going slow.
I don't religiously record speeds but I've ridden over the same commute route roughly 2400 times. Mostly on my road bike, not light by any stretch of the imagination at 21 pounds and change. I don't really care much about weight, I'm with you on that. I'm a total noob with my fixie but I can tell you this: between the "sensible" tires, upright relaxed position, 9 pounds extra weight, and drag from the accessories, and no up-shift, my trip speed is 20% lower.
There is a lot more to it than the weight, and I suppose that's the tie-in with this thread. Position, tires, and even (perhaps) wheels make more difference unless we're going slow.
I don't religiously record speeds but I've ridden over the same commute route roughly 2400 times. Mostly on my road bike, not light by any stretch of the imagination at 21 pounds and change. I don't really care much about weight, I'm with you on that. I'm a total noob with my fixie but I can tell you this: between the "sensible" tires, upright relaxed position, 9 pounds extra weight, and drag from the accessories, and no up-shift, my trip speed is 20% lower.
Your fixie weighs 9 lbs more than your (porky) road bike??
Sounds painful.
01-14-16, 01:20 PM
#104
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Not to offend, but I think you completely miss the meaning of "psychological benefit." A "psychological benefit" is Not a "rational benefit." It is entirely an abstract, an imaginary benefit, not in that it doesn't exist, but in that it only exists in one's mind.
If I Think my bike is better, it is, only because I think so. If I enjoy riding my bike more because I saved 600 grams on my wheels, then my bike Is better, because I think so. That is a "psychological benefit." Even if I Know my bike is no "faster" and no "better" by any measurable degree in regards to my use of or performance on the bike ... it is "better" in my mind. Therefore I enjoy it more, and maybe because of that try a little harder now and then. Maybe I am more apt to think "I can do this" because in my mind I know my bike is "better" because I saved a pound and a half on the wheelset. (Shoot, I feel faster already and I haven't even put them on my bike yet.)
Maybe my average speed and ride time over a route doesn't change even a millisecond, but I measure quality of life in terms of emotion, not numbers. Others can do as they see fit.
Oh, my new wheels? They are the hottest new brand--"Placebos." They dramatically increase the psychological performance of the bike and rider ... and they make me handsomer and smarter too. I am shopping for a "Placebo"-brand frame next.
If I Think my bike is better, it is, only because I think so. If I enjoy riding my bike more because I saved 600 grams on my wheels, then my bike Is better, because I think so. That is a "psychological benefit." Even if I Know my bike is no "faster" and no "better" by any measurable degree in regards to my use of or performance on the bike ... it is "better" in my mind. Therefore I enjoy it more, and maybe because of that try a little harder now and then. Maybe I am more apt to think "I can do this" because in my mind I know my bike is "better" because I saved a pound and a half on the wheelset. (Shoot, I feel faster already and I haven't even put them on my bike yet.)
Maybe my average speed and ride time over a route doesn't change even a millisecond, but I measure quality of life in terms of emotion, not numbers. Others can do as they see fit.
Oh, my new wheels? They are the hottest new brand--"Placebos." They dramatically increase the psychological performance of the bike and rider ... and they make me handsomer and smarter too. I am shopping for a "Placebo"-brand frame next.
01-14-16, 01:58 PM
#105
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Clean bikes are faster too. Because dust weighs more, creates air friction - and the psychological benefits.
01-14-16, 02:16 PM
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But I'll admit that going 20% slower is psychologically painful.
01-14-16, 02:26 PM
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Not hating,
just trying to imagine- got any pics?
Makes you both psychologically and physically stronger, right?
01-14-16, 03:03 PM
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01-14-16, 04:00 PM
#111
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I merely find it oddly amusing that perfect strangers on the internet think they "deserve" the right to judge what other people "deserve", and to take it a bit wider, that they feel they "deserve" to set the criteria behind "deserve".
I have expensive bikes. I'm not very fast. I will never be a "contender" in any competitive event. I just enjoy what I do (triathlons to date, and a few non-competitive club rides) for it's own sake. I'm competing against ... me! No one else. If that puts a bee in someone's shorts, well, that's their problem.
I say I "deseve" the bikes I have because ... wait for it ... it's my money, I earn it! It's called ... work! That thing you do for 40, 50, 60 hours a week of your life for 35, 40, 45 years. It also falls under the category of "return on investment." I made a big investment in my education, I skulked around university campus for 9 years of my life in total, at all hours of the day and night, agonized over projects and papers, sweated exams, went nights without sleep reading and studying. You get the picture, I'm sure most of you have been there, too.
Enjoying life in the present is my reward for all of that. I do, and buy, the things which add to my "ejoyment quotient" as I see appropriate.
Buying a bike is NOT like adopting a shelter or rescue pet. Pet adoption often involves questions about the suitable nature of the proposed home environment, the would-be adopter's financial ability to care for the pet, and even at times screening to make sure the person doesn't have a history of abuse or neglect of animals. Society has deemed that generally an appropriate value judgement.
When I approached the manager and owner of my LBS a couple of years ago about buying my first truly expensive bike, I don't recall ever having to submit to a background check, any questions about my speed or riding ability, etc. It's NOT a value judgement based transaction. It's about $$$, plain and simple. I did get appropriate questions about the type of riding, the type of bike, and so forth, but those were to steer me towards what was right for my needs, not to steer me away from the purchases as somehow "unworthy". Maybe they were laughing at me behind my back ... if so, who gives a rat's *** ... what is anyone gonna do, take away my birthday or my bike or something? Doubt it. Seemed pretty happy to ring up that sale. And they seem pretty happy to see me when I go into the shop (where I've bought 5 bikes to date).
It's all about the aspiration. I bet almost NO ONE who posts here is a professional cyclist. Using "deserve" as it's been used in this and similar threads, probably no one here "deserves" much of a bike. So the one in a thousand here who is the professional should be the only one riding a high end CF bike with a great groupset? And the rest of us??? There's always the GMC Denali. But if I were limited to riding a GMC Denali because that is "all I deserve" I doubt it would make me aspire to try to better myself, achieve better times, improve my health, etc. I know intellectually I will never be a TDF rider, not even close. But I can have a little piece of that dream for myself when I jump on my bike and pedal off. That is worth it to me.
Absolutely. There is a great butcher shop in my town, superb quality, it's always busy. I buy a lot of steaks there, filets, rib eyes, etc. I could just stop by the local Kroger or even Wal-mart and buy some round steak or even some ground beef. Just as nourishing. But not nearly as satisfying. So, it costs a little more at the butcher shop ... my $, I earn it.
I have expensive bikes. I'm not very fast. I will never be a "contender" in any competitive event. I just enjoy what I do (triathlons to date, and a few non-competitive club rides) for it's own sake. I'm competing against ... me! No one else. If that puts a bee in someone's shorts, well, that's their problem.
I say I "deseve" the bikes I have because ... wait for it ... it's my money, I earn it! It's called ... work! That thing you do for 40, 50, 60 hours a week of your life for 35, 40, 45 years. It also falls under the category of "return on investment." I made a big investment in my education, I skulked around university campus for 9 years of my life in total, at all hours of the day and night, agonized over projects and papers, sweated exams, went nights without sleep reading and studying. You get the picture, I'm sure most of you have been there, too.
Enjoying life in the present is my reward for all of that. I do, and buy, the things which add to my "ejoyment quotient" as I see appropriate.
Buying a bike is NOT like adopting a shelter or rescue pet. Pet adoption often involves questions about the suitable nature of the proposed home environment, the would-be adopter's financial ability to care for the pet, and even at times screening to make sure the person doesn't have a history of abuse or neglect of animals. Society has deemed that generally an appropriate value judgement.
When I approached the manager and owner of my LBS a couple of years ago about buying my first truly expensive bike, I don't recall ever having to submit to a background check, any questions about my speed or riding ability, etc. It's NOT a value judgement based transaction. It's about $$$, plain and simple. I did get appropriate questions about the type of riding, the type of bike, and so forth, but those were to steer me towards what was right for my needs, not to steer me away from the purchases as somehow "unworthy". Maybe they were laughing at me behind my back ... if so, who gives a rat's *** ... what is anyone gonna do, take away my birthday or my bike or something? Doubt it. Seemed pretty happy to ring up that sale. And they seem pretty happy to see me when I go into the shop (where I've bought 5 bikes to date).
It's all about the aspiration. I bet almost NO ONE who posts here is a professional cyclist. Using "deserve" as it's been used in this and similar threads, probably no one here "deserves" much of a bike. So the one in a thousand here who is the professional should be the only one riding a high end CF bike with a great groupset? And the rest of us??? There's always the GMC Denali. But if I were limited to riding a GMC Denali because that is "all I deserve" I doubt it would make me aspire to try to better myself, achieve better times, improve my health, etc. I know intellectually I will never be a TDF rider, not even close. But I can have a little piece of that dream for myself when I jump on my bike and pedal off. That is worth it to me.
Absolutely. There is a great butcher shop in my town, superb quality, it's always busy. I buy a lot of steaks there, filets, rib eyes, etc. I could just stop by the local Kroger or even Wal-mart and buy some round steak or even some ground beef. Just as nourishing. But not nearly as satisfying. So, it costs a little more at the butcher shop ... my $, I earn it.
Most people here critical of obsessive weightweenies are not trying to judge what others deserve.
I personally make fun but usually only comment when someone tries to justify an obsession and proceeds to give bad advice.
Too often a new or novice rider will inquire about a purchase and be steered towards a marketing driven, very expensive bicycle that is no better than many lesser priced bikes other than a pound or two difference in weight.
Weightweenies usually have a very difficult time differentiating themselves from the non obsessed.
It is not about deserve. It is about common sense and the ability or lack of to dispense it.
01-14-16, 09:59 PM
#112
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01-15-16, 10:03 AM
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My apologies for being such a richard about it. I am in a less then great state of mind lately .... haven't gotten out for a good ride in a week and a half and it shows in my attitude. I went overboard .... most of what I said was about my own issues, not your post.
Really, your bike is as smart as a poodle? What tricks can it do?
LOL ... I am a fat dude and I just bought some light wheels ... How did you know? Are you stalking me?
Really, your bike is as smart as a poodle? What tricks can it do?
LOL ... I am a fat dude and I just bought some light wheels ... How did you know? Are you stalking me?
The Standard Poodle is certainly faster than my bike, especially if I am the one riding it. She is also smarter than the bike. She is very obedient but the bike is more obedient. It may not like where I pedal it but it always does what I say, even the times that I have spilled on it.
01-15-16, 10:30 AM
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So I know there is a whole other forum devoted to this, but I never really thought I had a problem. I recnetly changed saddles (just a couple days ago) for comfort and all I can think about is the weight difference, 105 grams. I know its nothing, but I find myself searching for a carbon railed version of the current saddle. The one I'm using, Selle SMP Dynamic, is a loaner so I'm going to have to purchase one. I'm having trouble finding one with carbon rails and they are $130 more to save 60 grams. And to top it off I don't really think it will make a difference in ride quality.
I feel like I've got a disease.
I feel like I've got a disease.
Seriously, 105grams at the saddle can be saved from lighter socks, shorts etc. That is getting compulsive.
01-15-16, 11:02 AM
#116
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"He probably uses "20 dollar clearance from Nashbar" spandex. Anything more than 25 bucks and he feels like he is getting ripped off"
The above post was directed at me.
I only referenced a watch or anything about money after another he clearly stated out of the blue that I personally think anything over $25 is a ripoff. He referenced money out of the blue, not I.
The thread got locked about 20 posts and a full page later by people other than myself.
As usual you have no clue and just like to rant against people you don't like or agree with regardless of what is fact lol.
01-15-16, 11:04 AM
#117
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Lol. You have serious reading and comprehension issues, again.
"He probably uses "20 dollar clearance from Nashbar" spandex. Anything more than 25 bucks and he feels like he is getting ripped off"
The above post was directed at me.
I only referenced a watch or anything about money after another he clearly stated out of the blue that I personally think anything over $25 is a ripoff. He referenced money out of the blue, not I.
The thread got locked about 20 posts and a full page later by people other than myself.
As usual you have no clue and just like to rant against people you don't like or agree with regardless of what is fact lol.
"He probably uses "20 dollar clearance from Nashbar" spandex. Anything more than 25 bucks and he feels like he is getting ripped off"
The above post was directed at me.
I only referenced a watch or anything about money after another he clearly stated out of the blue that I personally think anything over $25 is a ripoff. He referenced money out of the blue, not I.
The thread got locked about 20 posts and a full page later by people other than myself.
As usual you have no clue and just like to rant against people you don't like or agree with regardless of what is fact lol.
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01-15-16, 11:13 AM
#118
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I think you do have a problem. But hey. I just slipped a piece of rebar into my seat post because I don't want the seat post to bend under my enormous weight. I carry a bag full of tools, a spare inner tube, sun screen, insect repellant, etc. Pile it on and enjoy the ride! 
01-15-16, 11:35 AM
#119
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Thanks
You have no input and are unable to dispute my facts so you add nothing but an lol and in your next post reference my lol.
I am glad I am not debating anything against the likes of your genius.
LOL
I assume you are simply trying to get this thread locked?...
You have no input and are unable to dispute my facts so you add nothing but an lol and in your next post reference my lol.
I am glad I am not debating anything against the likes of your genius.
LOL
I assume you are simply trying to get this thread locked?...
01-15-16, 12:07 PM
#120
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You have worked and earned money. I get it. Thanks for referencing it multiple times as if the rest of us have not.
Most people here critical of obsessive weightweenies are not trying to judge what others deserve.
I personally make fun but usually only comment when someone tries to justify an obsession and proceeds to give bad advice.
Too often a new or novice rider will inquire about a purchase and be steered towards a marketing driven, very expensive bicycle that is no better than many lesser priced bikes other than a pound or two difference in weight.
Weightweenies usually have a very difficult time differentiating themselves from the non obsessed.
It is not about deserve. It is about common sense and the ability or lack of to dispense it.
Most people here critical of obsessive weightweenies are not trying to judge what others deserve.
I personally make fun but usually only comment when someone tries to justify an obsession and proceeds to give bad advice.
Too often a new or novice rider will inquire about a purchase and be steered towards a marketing driven, very expensive bicycle that is no better than many lesser priced bikes other than a pound or two difference in weight.
Weightweenies usually have a very difficult time differentiating themselves from the non obsessed.
It is not about deserve. It is about common sense and the ability or lack of to dispense it.
I know, right?
Not very good at it,
but If I can dispense some common sense, I should be able to save about 5g.
01-15-16, 12:21 PM
#121
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01-15-16, 12:49 PM
#122
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Yeah, it's a sickness. I've been thinking about having my testicles removed. I think not only would it save weight, but I'd be more aero.
01-15-16, 01:28 PM
#123
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Its a hobby, not a sickness. No different than paying for a painting to hang over your desk. The painting does not make you smarter, unless you think it does.
01-15-16, 01:32 PM
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