AngrySaki

My brother got into cross country skiing this year and i've tried it a few times myself. I've only been to a couple of skiing trails, but they were both seemed fairly well groomed. I've also done quite a bit of riding on various types of snow this year, and would consider the groomed cross country trails to be "top notch" for snow biking. (I don't ride on them because I don't want to ruin them for the skiiers)

When I was watching bits of the olympics, I wondered if a pro cyclist would beat the skiiers if he was riding with them on the same trail. So I'm wondering if on a groomed traill (i'm thinking skate ski trail), is skiing faster than biking?

I've also never ridden a "real" snowbike (like a pugsley), so I wonder if you could challenge a classic skiier through deepers now on a proper bike.

irclean

Only one way to find out - go buy a Pugsley and challenge your brother to a race!

tjspiel

I think alot would depend on how firm the snow is. If the Pugsley starts to break through at all, it's game over.

Did you happen to catch that a number of skiers where also competitive cyclists? There was one woman who has been in both winter and summer olympics, - as a cyclist and either a skier or skater. I can't remember which.

AngrySaki

I'm pretty sure I'd crush him, he's not a very good skiier (although way better than me). He'd crush me if we were both on bikes though.

I think with skate skis specifically, the track has to be groomed pretty well, and would be fine to ride on with a bike. From what I could subjectively tell when I went skiing, i wouldn't break through on my winter bike which only has 70x35C tires.

I'm pretty sure you get lots of crossover with cyclists and skaters. I remember seeing them show one vancouver resident (woman's long track) showing up to the olympic stadium on her bike.

jefferee

I remember that there was a good TV shot of Clara Hughes pulling up to the oval on her bike Looked like a pretty sweet rig.

Hughes, incidentally, has won medals in both winter and summer Olympics. She was originally a speed skater, switched to cycling, won two Olympic medals in Atlanta, competed at Sydney, then switched back to speed skating, winning four medals in long-track speed skating over the last three winter Olympics.

cachehiker

I do both and when the closest groomed trail is packed enough to be rideable without ruining it for the skiers, I'm faster on the bike.

My best time going up on the bike in the winter is 3.9 miles in 41 minutes. My best time on classic skis is 56 minutes. On skate skis it's probably about 50 minutes but I don't recall ever actually keeping track. Once I turn around and go back down the difference is more pronounced but I don't push it. There's too much traffic. One skier in the wrong place at the wrong time with me bombing it at a 16-18 minute pace is bad news.

I've been xc skiing for over 10 years. I'm more of a backcountry guy instead of a skate skier though. Given some refinement in my technique I might be able to threaten the bike going up but I don't see how I could average 15 mph in more than a few sections coming down.

yak

Groomed or not, a skier would be no match for a Pugsley riding cyclist.

yak

dub post

cachehiker

That's also comparing 2.1" studded tires to classic skis that glide like a greased hockey puck.

I happen to be obsessive enough to hot wax the tips and tails of my supposedly waxless classic skis. The performance improvement is worth it. Passing skate skiers on what looks like waxless classics to them is like passing someone on a Trek Madone with your Surly LHT.

electrik

Totally... there is even a post in here somewhere about XC skier trying to chase down a cyclist who was riding on his track! The cyclist got away.

GriddleCakes

This is your answer. I regularly ride on groomed ski trails, and ski the very same trails, and it depends upon snow firmness.

When it's firm enough that my 2.1 inch tires leave no rut, then I'm the fastest beast out there, no contest. I'll blow by skate skiers, classic skiers, and Pugsley riders every time.

When is soft enough that I sink in about 1-2 inches with the bike then everyone blows by me, Pugs, skate, and even a few classic skiers.

Softer than that, I don't take the bike onto the trail. But when I'm out skate skiing in it, Pugsley riders are left in the dust. Their floatation advantage seems to only extend over 1-3 inches of soft snow. After that, it's a skier's game.

I've only ever been passed by a classic skier once while I was skate skiing.

Juha

Please. I don't see much snow in that pic. Getting stuck in deep snow is quite common even for snowmobiles, the ski resort rescue units carry snowshoes for backup for example. A Pugsley would reach maybe 5-10 meters from the cabin door there, depending on how far you can throw it.

Elite skating skiers finish a demanding 50km track in about 2 hours. Elite classic skiers take maybe 15-20 minutes longer. Like GriddleCakes said, track can still be soft enough to make it difficult to bike. In ideal conditions, biking would probably be faster. Anything less than ideal, and either style skiers would be faster. Also depends on who's skiing and who's biking.

We also have "nature tracks" that are prepared for classic skiing style only. They're just wide enough for one or two classic tracks plus enough prepared width so the poles won't sink in. Narrow tracks are better in thick or delicate forest, or in difficult terrain, where it's impossible to draw the flat "highway" that two classic tracks and a wide skating lane require. On the narrow track, classic skiers pwn everyone, including Chuck Norris.

Then of course there's the truly classic deep snow xc skiing, no prepared tracks at all, just wide and long forest skis. There's not much competition there as the only viable alternative in those conditions is snowshoeing.

--J

[edit] Just came to think of it, a Nordic triathlon of sorts might be interesting: winter swimming, a stretch of winter biking and a xc ski leg. [/edit]

cachehiker

Chuck Norris would take out the skiers with a roundhouse kick and keep riding.

When Chuck Norris pedals his bike, it doesn't move. It's the Earth that rotates beneath it.

plodderslusk

Balland did the Engadin Ski marathon in 1.16.10 in 1994. On really hard ice and hardpack you probably could ride it a bit faster on a bike.

Bekologist

skis win the race as conditions will not be likely to be consistently solid for bicycling. that said, the iditabike sprang from an earlier race, didn't it, that was open to skiiers, bicyclists, and snowshoers/runners, right? and the bicyclists consistently won?

that being said, I still think skiing is much more appropriate -much more graceful and possible over ALL snow, not just hardpacked trails- for travelling over snow; bicycling over it is a novelty. i still suggest everyone go ride their local ski hill and forest trails with snow on them.

here's a little video of me- skiing AND bicycling ,simultaneously. so to speak.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMknRyKYLUE

Cosmoline

Skiers and cyclists compete in the Invitational every year here. The bikes are considerably faster in the long haul, though the dog teams beat both very easily and the snowmachines beat everybody easily.

https://www.adn.com/2010/03/02/116490...-iditarod.html

Teemu Kalvas

I did that once. Except I biked first, then swam when the ice broke, and couldn't run as the ice was so slippery I could only walk. Great sport!

Bekologist

yeah, in all seriousness, falling thru the ice blows. been there several times.

and falling thru with skis on would be the worst - a thought that has crossed my mind while skihauling a sled on large frozen water ways and spotting open water near.

THAT gives one pause in ones adventuring. Who saw the National Geographic with a radical photoshoot of a team of two winter adventurers hauling kayaks and skis up and over the patagonian Icecap? Absolute madmen. the photos were incredible.

asuperstar103

LOL!! I totally agree. Let us know the results. LOL

Juha

I was just talking about this the other day with a friend. Modern XC ski bindings are difficult enough to open even on level ground. There's absolutely no way I could open one with no firm footing and while trying to stay afloat. I'd either climb out with the skis, or not climb out. Being harnessed to a sled would greatly increase the odds for the latter.

--J

Metzinger

^I've been there. I took a header into a barely frozen over pond when I failed to negotiated a sharp corner after a downhill. I was braced for impact, but was then shocked to be swimming. Or at least until I stood up. It was only 1.5m or so deep. It took me a few seconds to scramble out. Luckily it was not a cold day, and I was less than 10km from the warm hut.

A note on the speed issue: As Juha noted, skate skiers can go pretty fast. Some races are pushing 30km/hr average. Pro MTB XCs are usually closer to half that (though usually on more technical terrain).

Bekologist

yeah, no doubt, eH?

Savvy ski adventurers to the north pole have systems figured out. That Norwegian fella has taken to wearing drysuits and hauls sleds that double as kayaks and vice versa. He simply swims with his skis on until the next solid bit.

who's ever packed an ice dagger?

Sure wouldn't wear a drysuit for a week long tour on the taiga. and sometimes, lakes and rivers are the only efficient passage thru impenetrable swamp.

Whatever you do, don't let the skis go to the bottom!

Juha

I've heard the kayak/sled combo is pretty much a given in "real" ice adventure crossings where you have no tracks to follow and frequent openings in the ice. The good part about wearing a drysuit for a week is, the rescue team will smell you miles away. The bad part is, they're not paid well enough to come anywhere closer to you.

Regarding ice daggers, I do carry a pair if I'm crossing over ice. Rivers, lakes and sea make for great skiing, but I'm only confident in skiing over areas where I have knowledge of local ice conditions and/or see recent tracks in snow. Another problem when falling in: even if you do get out, you'll spend some time scraping all the ice off the ski surfaces. Frozen skis = miserable skiing.

Keep the gliding side down!

--J

Nick Bain

Fat bike birkie wisconsin

https://www.birkie.com/page/show/607208-fat-bike-birkie

Bekologist

As a little side note an only a little off topic, here's a video of me combining skiing AND bicycling on a recent bike ride.

Juha, you may like this, probably common in Finland?