Help on Trek serial number
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Help on Trek serial number
I think it’s one of the out sourced frames that got old numbers from what I can understand. But what is it? Looks like remnants of a 531 decal. SN N2F3A12
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,835
Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 604 Post(s)
Liked 1,064 Times
in
535 Posts
I assume you have already looked at the vintage Trek site, lots of exceptions for the serial numbers that start with N. As you think an outsourced bike, lots who know more then me, but my guess, 21” 1981 613, or 614 depending on the crankset.
Tim
Tim
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 656 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,044 Times
in
1,880 Posts
That's the Reynolds 531 Butted Main Tubes decal. From what I understand, that is the Trek factory serial number format for the 61x series, though the year code doesn't follow the normal system, which complicates exact dating. Given the presence of top tube brake cable clips, I'm assuming it is 1981, as this catalogues doen't show the models, but the 1982 catalogue shows brazed-on top tube cable tunnels. Both the 613 and 614 appear to be identically spec'd for the crankset, though neither are triples, as on your bicycle. Hopefully, some of the resident Trek experts can provide further information or correct me if I'm wrong. Treks really aren't my forté.
Edit: Oops, looks like I was composing, while Tim was posting. Sorry for the duplication. At least we're on the same track.
Edit: Oops, looks like I was composing, while Tim was posting. Sorry for the duplication. At least we're on the same track.
Last edited by T-Mar; 01-14-22 at 05:06 PM.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,897
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1866 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
If you look at the Vintage-trek.com site, the N2F3A12 means 610, 613, or 614, 21" frame, stamped in June 1983. Being a 61x the main tubes are double butted 531 and the seatstays chainstays, and fork blades are either straight 531 or straight CrMo of some other origin. I've had one of these from 1984 since it was new. Sometimes I like and sometimes I don't. I've had mine in many different configurations, it's my mule.
This info is all from the Vintage Trek site. There is also a section on colors and paint combinationsversus year and model. You should go and read that section of the site.as well. It might not all make a consistent story, but these were made nearly 40 years ago. A lot could have happenned to it.
This info is all from the Vintage Trek site. There is also a section on colors and paint combinationsversus year and model. You should go and read that section of the site.as well. It might not all make a consistent story, but these were made nearly 40 years ago. A lot could have happenned to it.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,897
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1866 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
That's the Reynolds 531 Butted Main Tubes decal. From what I understand, that is the Trek factory serial number format for the 61x series, though the year code doesn't follow the normal system, which complicates exact dating. Given the presence of top tube brake cable clips, I'm assuming it is 1981-1982, as these catalogues doen't show the models, but the 1983 catalogue shows brazed-on top tube cable tunnels. Both the 613 and 614 appear to be identically spec'd for the crankset, though neither are triples, as on your bicycle. Hopefully, some of the resident Trek experts can provide further information or correct me if I'm wrong. Treks really aren't my forté.
It seems they had both systems running at the same time (I don't know if that means anything). My 1982 720 is numbered in the 6 digit numerical sequenc, as is my 1984 610. I can see that my 720 is one of the first ones to roll off the line. This bike, a 1983 610 frame, is numbered in the older alphanumeric system, whicn I think dates back to the 1970s frames.
Last edited by Road Fan; 01-14-22 at 05:31 PM.
#7
Senior Member
The ‘82 catalog definitely shows the models. I’ve looked at this catalog more than I prefer to admit.
https://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/Trek3.pdf
https://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/Trek3.pdf
#8
Junior Member
Are the dropouts Suntour or Campagnolo? Lack of braze-ons for shifters and brake cabled the missing color panel on the seat tube might suggest 1981 610.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,723
Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1959 Post(s)
Liked 2,050 Times
in
1,123 Posts
What? I thought we just go to vintage trek dot com and know for sure. 😁
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,897
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1866 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,897
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1866 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
Sloar, does the Trek site talk about “outsourced frames?” It’s a new part of the lore, for me. Your paint looks original and remarkably good, but doesn’t have the features of 1983 .Did you maybe misread the SN? The long chain stays, down tube font, and the SN format suggest an older pattern of theirs, perhaps late 1970’s.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,897
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1866 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
Yes of course! But like any other religious document, it needs study, prayer, analysis, discussion, and finally a hearing with the Board of Elders in Wisconsin, to be sure the Truth has been correctly discerned!!
so while I thought I had this one solved, Sloar, I don’t. Time to put on my prayer shorts and cycling cap and look more deeply within!.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,654
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 479 Post(s)
Liked 637 Times
in
338 Posts
sloar In the footnotes from the vintage trek site:
"For M and N leading serial numbers, if the TREK letters on the seattube have no colorwrap behind, the bike is from 1980 or perhaps 1981. If it has a colorwrap, the bike is probably from 1982." This supports T-Mar 's observation that there are no braze ons for the brake cable on the top tube. My 1983 600 has those cable braze ons and I would have expected them on an 83 61x.
"For M and N leading serial numbers, if the TREK letters on the seattube have no colorwrap behind, the bike is from 1980 or perhaps 1981. If it has a colorwrap, the bike is probably from 1982." This supports T-Mar 's observation that there are no braze ons for the brake cable on the top tube. My 1983 600 has those cable braze ons and I would have expected them on an 83 61x.
#16
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,830
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3609 Post(s)
Liked 3,433 Times
in
1,952 Posts
Reynolds tubing and domed stay ends indicate a 6nn series frame. The main triangle was brazed in Waterloo, the fork and rear stays were brazed in Japan and shipped to Waterloo to be attached to main triangles.
Likes For JohnDThompson:
#17
Newbie
Several years ago I had an email conversation with Skip Eckhart. My 82 614 (I think), N5F4C88. Pewter gray with only seat tube panel (slate blue). Suntour dropouts w/eyelets , brake cable braze ons, long chain stays, glue on head badge, rear rack braze ons, bottom bracket cable braze ons (on top). Had a triple when I received it used. 531 main tube decal. I can't remember what else to note but that was most of the "tells".
Tom.
Tom.
#18
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,651
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2609 Post(s)
Liked 1,704 Times
in
937 Posts
A 600 series frame should not have 531 stays and fork. CrMo or Tange Mn alloy.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,897
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1866 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
Not gonna make it a big debate, but I've always thought the info in the Trek catalogs is somewhat ambiguous, and I think they allowed themselves the freedom to use any CrMo or similar which was available and suitable to satisfy the manufacturing process and stop the line as little as possible. We have to admit, 531 and CrMo are pretty similar, though not identical, and many non-Reynolds branded tubings are CrMo. We don't really know what was in the minds of the engineers and managers or what may have been written in engineering documents. We only know the words that were chosen for the consumer's information. Presumably those were written by marketing people. It's a lot more than you get with a lot of bike companies, but it still is not the hard technical requirements.
#20
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,651
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2609 Post(s)
Liked 1,704 Times
in
937 Posts
Not gonna make it a big debate, but I've always thought the info in the Trek catalogs is somewhat ambiguous, and I think they allowed themselves the freedom to use any CrMo or similar which was available and suitable to satisfy the manufacturing process and stop the line as little as possible. We have to admit, 531 and CrMo are pretty similar, though not identical, and many non-Reynolds branded tubings are CrMo. We don't really know what was in the minds of the engineers and managers or what may have been written in engineering documents. We only know the words that were chosen for the consumer's information. Presumably those were written by marketing people. It's a lot more than you get with a lot of bike companies, but it still is not the hard technical requirements.
If a 600 series frame has the same attributes, then why is the 700 series frame more expensive?
531 tubing is branded (as you mentioned). Does it make sense that Trek gave away premium branded tubing for the cost of tubing "of some other origin?"
It doesn't matter what's in the minds of the engineers, managers or engineering documents- If a frame is advertised and being sold as having "X" tubing- it needs to have "X" tubing. It's not like subbing Z series components because Simplex was unavailable- this is the very foundation of the naming convention, thus the price point the bike is at.
For those not wishing to pore through the Vintage Trek catalogs- Any 700 series frame has a butted 531 main frame with 531 stays and fork. ANY 600 series frame has a butted 531 frame and stays and fork made from CrMo or Manganese alloy from sources like Ishiwata, Tange and Reynolds (but not 531). And for anyone wishing to pore thru the Trek catalogs- 531CS is a tube set with a 531 frame and Reynolds CrMo stays and fork.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,835
Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 604 Post(s)
Liked 1,064 Times
in
535 Posts
Minor point, Reynolds 501 was the CrMo used for the stays and fork, on the 531CS frame set.
Tim
Tim