Sy Reene

What's your take on the positives/negatives of the mail-order bikes available, if they were available unbranded (on frames)? For every bike that eg Bikesdirect (Motobecane) or Nashbar or Ribble sells, how many are turned off because the logo is on the frame? Do you think their sales would improve or decline if they removed branding or offered unbranded versions additionally?

I do know for myself that I in part (it also checked a lot of boxes for a commuter rig I was setting up) purchased the Nashbar steel CX because it is actually unbranded (not sure why this model is sold that way). If it had been splashed with a huge Nashbar logo.. I'm not sure.

Canker

Nashbar's bikes if they have any stickers at all on them are pretty unobtrusive. I have their carbon CX frame and it has nothing on it and I like it that way but if it had a big NASHBAR sticker on it I still would have bought it. I'm no bike snob and tell people what it is when they ask. Most brands big, small, mail order, whatever over do it with the branding and decals.

ph0rk

I'd be more attracted to any bike with no logos. Trek, specialized, or nashbar.

joejack951

My two current carbon bikes are all or virtually all logo-less frames. The Pedal Force has a small logo on the headtube mostly obscured by the cables. The Hongfu frame and fork are completely barren. I like it but I'd be willing to be that most people (certainly non-cycling enthusiasts) see some logo, any logo, as confidence inspiring and logo-less as generic and sketchy.

Chandne

I would not be interested. I'm not into brands for the sake of a brand but I like reputable companies (or small builders) who will stand behind the product and who have done research and produce nice riding bikes. If a generic Ti bike gets a lot of good reviews, I'd try to ride one but in the absence of a demo, I'd rather spend more money and buy a Moots or Seven or something from a small company. I don't buy aluminum alloy but carbon...same thing as my example above. I have to be able to mentally trust something and a track record helps. I'm not into buying the cheapest just for the sake of saving money.

I currently would not buy Nashbar or Bikesdirect. I actually do not like prominent logos but one bike has one. The other is very muted matte black. The logos I have learned to love with but I'd look for more muted designs next time.

Abe_Froman

Do you know if there's a way to get a pricing list on Hongfu bikes? I can't find anything on their website.

Honestly, I'd rather buy a generic frame online. Cheaper, less branding nonsense on it. And I don't really believe that big name branded frames are any different. Hell they're probably made in the same factory anyway.

stockae92

For mail order bikes, I would pay more attention to the geometry and fitment than the logo. If you order "direct" from factory in Asia, go for the one with good reputation as quality assurance would be one of the high concern.

Regarding the actual logo, I wouldn't mind it if its tastefully done. Some people ride the "brand", and some people just want to ride. You need to ask yourself which one are you?

joejack951

You'll need to contact them for pricing. I only know what I paid for my FM079-F and 40mm rims.

My contact is/was: Nancy - sales04@hongfu-bikes.cn

I started out using the Alibaba messaging feature but moved to direct emails eventually. Let me know if I can help with anything else.

Abe_Froman

Personally I'm looking to just ride, but am greatly annoyed by the fact that a) companies expect me to be a rolling advertisement for them, and b) it's just ugly.

msu2001la

Agreed. Can you imagine if car companies splashed huge logos all over the sides and hoods of cars?

I'd definitely be interested in logo-free or minimal logo versions of bikes.

jrporter

I just got a Nashbar LT1 touring bike, and the frame has ZERO stickers/decals...

howheels

~6,000 miles on my Nashbar frame. Zero branding, I love it! Also lifetime satisfaction guarantee (replace or refund). Try getting that from a branded manufacturer.

wheelreason

Yeah, cause a hood ornament the size of an Oscar on the front of a Rolls would be so tacky...

Wittyname

Orders far outpaced production



FCA sold 489,418 of these in the US alone in 2016

People pay for branding

Doge

Much of market appeal is image. Of course competing on function is great, but it is expensive to show how your wheel, frame is better. If you can create a feeling about your product you are way ahead.

Then there is price.
While bikes are "expensive" they really are within reach of many folks and the image thing takes over.
See a thread about wheels with a fancy name.

Simple answer - competing on feature and function is much more costly than competing on feeling.

So, can they stay in business, yes. Will they dominate, no. They would do better selling to institutions / businesses where price matters more than prestige. But for most hobby product buyers, they like to talk about their stuff. Brand matters.

Where price plays is in a suite of products/value. Like Walmart or places you go get stuff you need and there are many things you need at a lower cost. Bikes are too narrow a product line IMO. Folks would rather pay the extra to have an S-Works over a Pro.

Sy Reene

I don't know.. Most organized rides where I am, end up starting at an LBS with a big parking lot. 3-4 dozen or so cyclists hanging out at any given time before heading out.. 30% Spesh, 25% Trek.. and most of the balance made up of other big brands. At that point, it's kinda like "who cares" what the brand is. OTOH.. somebody kitted up with a Motobecane under their legs hanging out in the parking lot would be noticed (I think); however, in a weird way.

The funny thing is.. the "bike" is so much more than the frame anyway. The frame is just the chunk of material that holds all the parts that actually do something.

Another funny thing.. I think frame material is a definite factor. I've now been asked 3 times if my Nashbar steel cx frame is custom. I agree, an unbranded CF frame has completely different impact on peoples' perceptions.

Maelochs

People (IME) who like big names on their trucks will buy that brand of truck as a religious, not rational decision. Most of them would never consider one of the other brands.

With cars, people who like branding do tend to want a little subtlety---the BMW grille, the Mercedes star, the Jaguar Jaguar .... but they would think it was classless and tasteless to write the name in letters as large as would fit down the side of the car.

I prefer no to minimal branding. (I dislike clearcoat over decals in ways I cannot explain.) I pay to ride their bike, and they do Not pay me to advertise for them.

Whether I ride a Litespeed, a Moots, a Motobecane, a Trek, a Giant .... I don't want to advertise for Any company. A tasteful logo is fine (Litespeed is good for that.) Writing "Trek" in four-inch letters down the downtube ... is crass and tasteless. I don't care if the bike were a total one-off, each part machined or molded specifically for me .... take your screaming decal off and insert it somewhere. Buy some class and learn how to use it.

I truly don't care what people think of my bike anyway .... If someone thinks differently because of a decal on my bicycle, I hope I never meet that person.

Of course, I ride a Workswell, a Fuji, and a Dawes ... and a Raleigh and a Cannondale. Only the C'dale really carries any cachet, and it is a 35-year-old touring build ... so no cachet (though it has a truly beautiful tasteful logo on the top tube.)

Wileyrat

I have hit the age where I don't give a damn what someone thinks about me or my bike.

Judge away.

kbarch

As @Doge was getting at, institutional buyers would go for "unbranded" bikes because they would be approaching them more as a commodity. Individuals, however, tend to see bicycles as more personal. But while branding provides an identifiable image, it's not necessarily in the sense of prestige or lack thereof. It just has to provide some kind of identity, or some kind of story or association. It doesn't much matter if it is consistent or true. Often enough, it's ironic, but for it to be personal, it can't be generic. It has to have a name, even if it's "the plain bike"
Most of the time, the branding or labeling on bike frames is just so much unimaginative graphic design - lettering as decorative pattern - but branding can be achieved by consistent use of distinctive colors and patterns as well.
Yes, a fair number of people would rather go for "minimalist" or understated designs instead - there's definitely a market for plain looking bikes. But even then, most individuals want their OWN plain bike, so it has to be identifiable in some way. That plainness can be part of its identity, part of the story, or even the brand.

Sy Reene

Nicely put, and you make some sense. Giving the bike an identity and making it one's own though, could be partly accommodated by a change of bar tape, colored tires, cages, or custom velo decals perhaps.

kbarch

Now we're getting somewhere! Imagine a line of bikes that's just that - sort of "make your own." Not "custom" the way we normally talk here about made to measure frames, high-spec ultra-light components and such, but where you go to the store and what's in stock are sort of "blank canvases" that buyers spec all that simple stuff you mentioned. You could get a "custom" bike for less than $500, and it wouldn't have a bunch of dumb, ugly labels on it that don't mean anything to you!

Maelochs

Individuals see bikes as "their bikes."

I repainted my Raleigh, so it has no decals. It is "my Raleigh." I don't need to have a sticker on it to know which one it is. And it is mine because I built it ... but much, much, more it is mine because I Ride it.

The idea that marketing is needed to provide identity is a marketing idea being marketed by marketers.

There is no branding on my house. I know where I live. My car is a Honda, but to me it is "my car." My wife's Toyota is 'My wife's car." The identity is inherent.

I have no labels on me. Does this mean I have no identity and no story?

"Identity" is inherent and intrinsic. It is not something added later with decals or the absence or removal of decals. The thing exists. I don't need a sign pointing to it to know it is there.

Offer options on decal packages ... problem is, companies lcear-coat over decals, and people like that.

kbarch

You make some excellent points. The thing is, aside from the QC and practicality issues of shop-applied graphics, the reason my little idea of mass-market "custom" bikes wouldn't fly is because most people are not so imaginative or interested in creating things as they are in naming things and taking ownership of them.
You may not have lettering and graphics applied to your skin, but you DO have a label of sorts on you: your name, and your face. Everybody looks different and can be identified. Yes, identity may be seen as just the history and inherent properties of some things, but without identification - names and such that we APPLY to things - we would not be able to organize our perceptions and thoughts about them.
And yes, just because something is branded doesn't mean people won't treat it as a commodity. I'm just not sure how many bike buyers are that way. I think most expect different brands of bikes to actually BE different in a way that might mean something to them. Perhaps that's unrealistic. Maybe that unrealistic expectation was what you were getting at.

rpenmanparker 

While your view is valid as your personal outlook, it is hardly in the majority. Most folks identify with the brand, seek out their choice, and then display it with pride. That is not marketing by marketers, that is human nature. That is certainly true for cars. Not so much for houses, because it isn't a viable possibility there.

memebag

I don't think anyone in the groups I ride with would notice a Motobecane. We have a some very expensive bikes and some very cheap bikes. My guess is if anyone is judged harshly it's the slow cyclists with expensive bikes. Fast cyclists on cheap bikes are well regarded. Everyone else is just a cyclist, I think.