Psychocycles

I am getting $600 back from Performance bike due to my recent purchase and that greatly expands my budget to include a set of cheap carbon wheels or power meter. PB currently has Reynolds R4 & R6 carbon wheels on sale for $900 & $1000 respectively. They're not the lightest of things, at 1597g and 1625g, and I have no idea of their aero performance, but they are quite low on the budget end of things. Alternatively, I have also had my eye on Hunt wheels (the Hunt 50 Carbon at $1200 and 1537g) but obviously these aren't sold at PB so I'd have to pony up the entire amount.


Alternatively, I could upgrade to the Ultegra crankset (on Oval now) and add a stages powermeter for more or less the same price.


First of all, does anyone know and/or ride the Reynolds wheels and do you know how they perform (stiffness, braking, aero, etc)? How long does the braking surface usually last on these carbon wheels if only ridden in the dry? I have a disc brake bike for wet riding. If these are bad wheels, easy choice for me - power meter. However, if they're good...which would you go for?


A bit of background on me: I'm a fast, powerful rider who doesn't race, yet, but I'm looking for ways to improve my training and/or speed because I want to try for all the KOMs on the rolling terrain around me . I just recently upgraded from riding my cross bike on the road (with slicks) to a full aero bike that comes with decent stock wheels, but nothing to write home about - they maybe are around the level of Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. When I go with one of these purchases, I won't have budget to get the other for a while, maybe up to 6 months or a year+, so I need to choose assuming I won't be able to upgrade to the one I missed out on for a while.


I'm leaning towards getting the Ultegra crank & stages PM now and getting the Hunt wheels later, as I believe the Hunt wheels are slightly better than the Reynolds, but I've never ridden either so I'm very open minded. (Is $200 for 100g lighter a good price, assuming the other features of the wheels are identical?)


Thanks!

WhyFi

If you're going to use the PM for training, I'd get that before the wheels. I'd get something like a Power2Max (which I do own) rather than a Stages (unless you're completely wedded to the idea of a Shimano crankset). If you have an Oval now, there's a good chance that you have Praxis rings, which are great rings and could be moved over to a P2M (provided you don't go 4-hole or a different BCD).

Psychocycles

I guess I have two main themes going on here - wheels or PM, and once that's decided, which one is best for what. I'm not 100% committed to Shimano cranks, but I don't know the alternatives as well and I know it'd be a good decision with Shimano. Also, since my store credit is with Performance, I'm limited to what they have - if I want P2M, which I do like, I'd have to pay cash and that would mean I'd go with the wheels from PB. Also, there's a little bit of a vanity thing going on, where my entire grouppo is Ultegra except my brakes & cranks, so I'd like to slowly upgrade the bike to full Ultegra so that I'm matching everything . But if there are cranks for the same price but measurably better than Ultegra I'm open to researching them.

Another consideration is I do not want to put a new bottom bracket in (Praxis PF30 Conversion - LBS said they work with Shimano cranks) as it's brand new and there's no reason to throw away a perfectly functional BB. So whatever cranks I do get, if I go that way, need to be compatible.

rubiksoval

A non-stages powermeter.

Psychocycles

Curious, what's wrong with stages?

rubiksoval

Single-sided.

TrojanHorse

Bottom brackets are dirt cheap and as far as I know, Shimano cranks need an adapter for most non-threaded BB, so there's that. Don't sweat the BB.

I bought these wheels 2.5 years ago when Performance had them on sale. They've been extremely durable, brake surface looks AOK and I've yet to need to true them. Braking is OK (I use swisstop black prince instead of those blue reynolds pads that squeal like crazy). Braking sounds more like corduroy pants rubbing together most of the time, but if I really jam on the brakes, they're going to squeal. It's sort of like an emergency braking alarm. I have no idea what their wet performance is like because it never rains here. I go through pads much more quickly than I do on my other bike with AL wheels.

I don't have any other carbon wheels to compare them to - I assume fancy expensive wheels are superior in cross winds and what not, but these look cool on my bike and they do seem a bit faster than my aluminum wheels, so I don't regret getting them.

I'd get the power meter first though.

WhyFi

They do have dual-sided now.

FlashBazbo

If the goal is to get faster, and if you will use it as it is intended, the power meter is the easy choice. (And a single-sided Stages will work perfectly.) Better training will provide a multiple of the benefit of even the best, most expensive, most aero wheelset.

datlas 

I am no PM expert, but I honestly think that for the vast majority of users, single sided is fine. Even if there is a 49/51 or 48/52 imbalance, that's how you are made and it probably won't change how you train.

PS to OP, if your goal is to have fun, get the wheels. If your goal is to train and get more competitive and you are willing to suffer, get the PM.

sdmc530

PM all the way between the two. I love mine and would not go without it. I haven't gotten high end wheels YET, but chose PM over wheels first and am glad I did.

I have Powertap that reads both sides. Its great, a buddy has a single side crank arm and he is jealous of my set up.

WhyFi

Okay, gotcha. In the case of a store credit, I'd look at maximizing my value based upon what they carry. In this case, it would be the wheels, because it would be hard to find an equivalent for the same or less. You can find an awful lot of PMs for less than what they're offering the Stages for, and as an FYI, if your current BB is Shimano compatible, meaning 24mm spindles, P2M offers a Rotor 3D24 crankset that'll slide right in (which is the model that I have, as well); you'd be looking at $640, without chain rings.

rubiksoval

Nice!

But looks like dura ace only for performance at 1299 bucks a pop. Yikes.

rubiksoval

I think a 48/52 imbalance is a pretty optimistic estimation. I imagine the discrepancy gets a bit bigger than that for many people, and at different intensities and durations as well.

And with a 900 dollar or so budget, why even bother? So many better options.

datlas 

I would not argue that there are possibly better choices at that budget. Of course there are.

But my point is that if a person wants to train with power, a single sided unit is certainly a viable option.

Psychocycles

I've heard several experts' opinion that dual sided PM are only relevant if you're riding track and pedal smoothness is super important, or you're recovering from injury. Therefore, I'm ok with single sided PM. However, the point about the Stages being almost $600 is a pretty good one, and that's pretty steep for a single sided PM.

Psychocycles

The issue is my goal is both, and to further complicate matters, I have another bike that will be my trainer/cross/wet weather bike, so when the winter comes around, if I get the Stages/Ultegra PM, I'd have to use my carbon bike on the trainer or train w/o power.

RChung

Those experts are less expert than they think they are.

himespau 

Performance does sell the Garmin Vector 3S and Powertap P1S for about $600 and those are probably more easy to move between bikes than a crank.

NoWhammies

I rode a set of rim brake Reynolds Assaults for a season. Loved the wheels. I had them setup in a tubeless configuration and had no complaints. Wheels felt fast and I braking was fine. I just had to get used to modulating the baking from front to rear and back again. But that really wasn't an issue. The few times that I really had to come to a quick stop, the wheels stopped true.

Do keep in mind that you need to use a special braking compound/brake pad. The ones from Reynolds work great but they are expensive! Worth it though to keep you investment functional.

lyrictenor1

Unfortunately, if you have Oval Concepts cranks, those have a GXP (Sram) spindle, and you will need a different PF30 Conversion BB if you go to a Shimano crank. The GXP-style crank has a 24mm spindle with a 22mm step-down on the NDS, whereas the Shimano Hollow tech cranks have a straight 24mm spindle the entire length.

Greiselman

FWIW Competitive Cyclist has a variety of power meters on sale right now... just grabbed a Pioneer one-sided Ultegra crank for $400.

Teamprovicycle

A power tap hub on a carbon aero wheel????

Wittyname

Going to throw this out there - Stages makes a Right-Side-Only power meter, as well. $650 for the Ultegra crank and power meter. It doesn't appear to be on PB's site, but it is on Stages and on Competitive Cyclist. This gives you the option of picking up a Left Side arm later down the road and having a dual sided meter, with a price penalty assuming you buy at full MSRP.
If your end goal is power, carbon wheels, and a non-Oval crankset, I'd get the wheels from PB with your credit and buy the right sided meter from somewhere else.

As has been said, the wheels are going to give you more 'fun' factor immediately, but the power meter will give you a great tool to train smarter and get you to a place to take those local KOMs. Unless you are recovering from a severe injury or have some actual physical disability, your power is likely already fairly balanced, and while one-sided is going to be less accurate, it's a matter of percentages. I've had great luck with my gen 2 Stages meter, and it has given me consistent numbers that are very close to what I see from my smart trainer.

Best of luck

Hermes

I have Garmin Vector II which was a conversion from the original Garmin Vector and measures both legs. I use them on my track bike and on the tandem. I have also put them on my road bike which at the time had a Quarq. I wanted to run my own tests to compare results. DC Rainmaker is safe.

What I found was interesting. Under steady state conditions, Vector and Quarq produced similar results much as reported by those that do tests and publish results. Under transient conditions, the Vector was very slow and under reported power significantly. It took Vector 3 seconds to wake up and start recording power. It took Quarq 1 second. And the best sampling rate that Garmin head units have is 1 second.

I called Garmin and they said that the delay in Vector was due to the calculation time in the head unit combining the left and right pedals. My only response was that the Garmin Vector was not competitive with other meters for transient response. So metrics such as 5 second power or sprint power are highly suspect IMO for Garmin units. Of course, they may have changed.

Also, here is an observation concerning having one versus two legs recorded. If I do one leg step ups in the gym, my right leg strength and underlying neurology is much stronger than my left. That has to be true on the bike. For a track workout, my average left / right power is 49/51 and seldom varies from that. My hypo is the cadence is a great equalizer of strength differences of the legs UNTIL fatigue sets in or cadence is slowed down. So for standing starts, I put in a lot more force with my right leg. That force difference will not be recorded with a left leg only PM.

I do recovery rides at my gym and they have a Stages stationary bike that has a Stages left only power meter. I play around with the power and put in more force with each leg and it is very easy to increase 50 watts with my left leg while holding the right leg the same and increasing the force in my right leg the same 50 watts and the meter read the same as before the increase.

I speculate that when it gets really hard to do the last couple of efforts in an interval set, imbalances start to show up and certainly at low cadence and transient power swings between left and right go unrecorded. Now maybe that is all okay and for the price point of these lower priced meters riders have to live it. YMMV.