I can use some help here; Cinelli content
10-25-20, 07:13 PM
#26
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Remove the identification or add Tribute.
not a Cinelli
just wants to be one in the worst way.
not a Cinelli
just wants to be one in the worst way.
10-25-20, 07:30 PM
#27
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Here are photos of the dropouts and fork ends. Both are Campagnolo.
10-25-20, 07:34 PM
#28
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Here's the Guerciotti that I based my spaghetti fling on, there's a Rossi there too that has a lot of numbers stamped in it and pointy stay caps that are quite different to my eye.
Assuming you saw this.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-needed-2.html
Assuming you saw this.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-needed-2.html
10-26-20, 12:14 AM
#29
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Put me in the "not a Cinelli" camp. I base that on: (1) seat cluster - not the Cinelli style (Speciale Corsas and Model Bs had the same distinctive fastback design, which Cino Cinelli was kind of fanatical about); (2) no serial number on the bottom bracket - Cinelli serial numbers tell you nothing about the age of the frame, but they insisted on stamping a four-digit number under the BB anyway; (3) headbadge - I have never seen a Cinelli headbadge that looked like that, only the oval brass or aluminum ones with the family crest on a black background; and (4) seat post diameter. All Cinellis before Cino sold the company c.1978 or so and for a while after that had 26.2mm seat posts, not 26.8.
I could be wrong, but it would take a lot to convince me of it. That not-a-Guerciotti looks pretty darn similar on a quick unmagnified look. But unless some irrefutable provenance turns up to the contrary, I would assume it was not a Cinelli.
It looks like a cool high-end frame, but not a Cinelli. But you kind of knew that.
I could be wrong, but it would take a lot to convince me of it. That not-a-Guerciotti looks pretty darn similar on a quick unmagnified look. But unless some irrefutable provenance turns up to the contrary, I would assume it was not a Cinelli.
It looks like a cool high-end frame, but not a Cinelli. But you kind of knew that.
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"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
Last edited by bikingshearer; 10-26-20 at 12:22 AM.
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10-26-20, 09:00 AM
#30
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It seems the consensus is that this, indeed, is not a Cinelli. Not a huge surprise to me; I knew going in that it was iffy. As the seller (who seemed like an honest guy) said that it came to him like this before he had it repainted 20 years ago, this “cosmetic conversion” must have happened a very long time ago.
So what I seem to have here is a nicely put together lightweight mystery frame (perhaps 1960’s; perhaps Italian?) with a full complement of Campy components. The mystery continues... Thanks to all who have weighed in on this!
So what I seem to have here is a nicely put together lightweight mystery frame (perhaps 1960’s; perhaps Italian?) with a full complement of Campy components. The mystery continues... Thanks to all who have weighed in on this!
10-27-20, 04:57 PM
#31
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Starting to look a bit better- whatever it is!
Campy Rally rear derailleur reinstalled in place of the Shimano XTR it was set up with. I noticed the hole just above the threads in the hanger of the rear dropout; thinking that this feature was eliminated sometime in the mid 1960’s?
Campy Rally rear derailleur reinstalled in place of the Shimano XTR it was set up with. I noticed the hole just above the threads in the hanger of the rear dropout; thinking that this feature was eliminated sometime in the mid 1960’s?
Last edited by orcas island; 10-27-20 at 05:03 PM.
10-27-20, 05:05 PM
#32
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iirc T-Mar and verktyg have both posted that the spring hole for the Campagnolo Sport rear mech disappeared in 1973
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iirc T-Mar and verktyg have both posted that the spring hole for the Campagnolo Sport rear mech disappeared in 1973
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10-27-20, 05:38 PM
#33
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^ Thanks for that clarification. I’ve continued to scroll the Interweb a bit about Cinelli and turned up a couple of photos of early Cinellis without the fastback seat stays. Both photos were ID’ed as being bikes from the 1950’s, and the text mentioned that the frame also had no visible serial numbers stamped.
Just trying to keep hope alive; but expect that I’m getting pretty far out on the limb here!
Just trying to keep hope alive; but expect that I’m getting pretty far out on the limb here!
Last edited by orcas island; 10-27-20 at 05:55 PM.
10-27-20, 08:44 PM
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Here's the Guerciotti that I based my spaghetti fling on, there's a Rossi there too that has a lot of numbers stamped in it and pointy stay caps that are quite different to my eye.
Assuming you saw this.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-needed-2.html
Assuming you saw this.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-needed-2.html
10-27-20, 08:50 PM
#35
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Thread Starter
Ok, I’ll stop hoping this is a Cinelli 
10-27-20, 09:03 PM
#36
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Actually; related to the last photo and the long reach rear brake used there, there is a drop bolt on my Campy rear brake to allow it to reach. Pretty high brake bridge on my bike also.
Last edited by orcas island; 10-27-20 at 09:07 PM.
10-27-20, 09:56 PM
#37
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the arrestor set on the orange Guerc looks to be the Extra model from Fratelli Pietra
the stern caliper on this set has a centre of slot dimension of 64mm
the bow caliper has a centre of slot dimenson of 50.5mm
for model 61 it is similar:
the centre of slot dimension astern is 64mm and at the bow it is 55.5mm
checking the bow dimension on the subject frame could tell you which set the maker had in mind for the build...
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10-27-20, 10:03 PM
#38
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Drop outs may be your only clue but even then, it’s probably going to say ‘Columbus/Campagnolo’. The only
thing that catches my eye is the seat stay cut at the top. Cinelli typically shows their “elegance” by at least creating some sort of design out the tip with curves/slopes/points/their name or set to the rear as a clamp for the seat tube. This one just seems...chopped and then slapped on.
And is it just me or does anyone see how poorly the chainstay bridge is placed? Cinelli’s and many other frames typically don’t show a seam let alone the gap were seeing.
thing that catches my eye is the seat stay cut at the top. Cinelli typically shows their “elegance” by at least creating some sort of design out the tip with curves/slopes/points/their name or set to the rear as a clamp for the seat tube. This one just seems...chopped and then slapped on.
And is it just me or does anyone see how poorly the chainstay bridge is placed? Cinelli’s and many other frames typically don’t show a seam let alone the gap were seeing.
Last edited by Yelbom15; 10-27-20 at 10:06 PM.
10-28-20, 12:30 AM
#39
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Hmmm.
Drop outs may be your only clue but even then, it’s probably going to say ‘Columbus/Campagnolo’. The only
thing that catches my eye is the seat stay cut at the top. Cinelli typically shows their “elegance” by at least creating some sort of design out the tip with curves/slopes/points/their name or set to the rear as a clamp for the seat tube. This one just seems...chopped and then slapped on.
And is it just me or does anyone see how poorly the chainstay bridge is placed? Cinelli’s and many other frames typically don’t show a seam let alone the gap were seeing.
thing that catches my eye is the seat stay cut at the top. Cinelli typically shows their “elegance” by at least creating some sort of design out the tip with curves/slopes/points/their name or set to the rear as a clamp for the seat tube. This one just seems...chopped and then slapped on.
And is it just me or does anyone see how poorly the chainstay bridge is placed? Cinelli’s and many other frames typically don’t show a seam let alone the gap were seeing.
There are inconsistencies, such as the head tube lugs, the width of the bottom bracket shell, the diameter of the seat tube, the round shape of what should be an oval keyhole in the forks' crown, and other fiddlybits, which tend to suggest it is not a production Cinelli.
10-28-20, 02:00 AM
#40
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10-28-20, 09:07 AM
#41
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Yes, forget the transfers, but the metalwork is similar.
Obviously the real author did not have a big rep.
Obviously the real author did not have a big rep.
10-28-20, 11:24 AM
#42
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10-28-20, 11:33 AM
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10-28-20, 12:21 PM
#45
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That does look like a very good match for this frame. No dimpling on mine on the underside of the bb shell where I’m assuming the chain stays were pinned on the EBay bike?
10-28-20, 12:59 PM
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forgot to mention that fork crown is called a Rostagno
here is it illustrated in a Rebour rendering for Andy Bertin -
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forgot to mention that fork crown is called a Rostagno
here is it illustrated in a Rebour rendering for Andy Bertin -
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10-29-20, 07:04 AM
#47
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That eBay frame appears pretty darn close.
Those dimples are a way of stabilizing the parts - yes.
as the Cinelli painted frame may be lacking them, when a bike gets painted, things can be tidied up. Even gets done with new frames.
Those dimples are a way of stabilizing the parts - yes.
as the Cinelli painted frame may be lacking them, when a bike gets painted, things can be tidied up. Even gets done with new frames.
