Going back to 23/25 from 28/30...?
#51
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I've gone wider and wider over the years. I started out on 23s, then rode 25s for years. Now I'm up to 30mm GP5k tubeless on my "endurance" ride and 28mm GP5k with TPU tubes in my weight-weenie climbing bike. We've got a lot of chip seal, potholes, cracks, and roads with expansion joints in them. The bike with the 30mm tires is considerably more comfortable, I don't plan on ever going back to 25s.
What was really eye opening for me, was when I set my gravel bike up with some very efficient 42mm tires. These are meant as a gravel "racing" tire and have less measured rolling resistance than many road tires. Comparing wattage and segment times, it's surprising how close the gravel bike is to the road bikes on road segments. Makes me even consider upsizing my 30s to 32s next time I have to get new tires.
What was really eye opening for me, was when I set my gravel bike up with some very efficient 42mm tires. These are meant as a gravel "racing" tire and have less measured rolling resistance than many road tires. Comparing wattage and segment times, it's surprising how close the gravel bike is to the road bikes on road segments. Makes me even consider upsizing my 30s to 32s next time I have to get new tires.
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#52
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It's also worth mentioning that nobody is forced to pump their tires to rock-hard psi. Even "skinny" tires can be run at reduced pressures, with the lower limit being enough pressure to prevent pinch flats. A "skinny" tire with reduced pressure enjoys all the advantages of the "fat" tire at reduced pressure, without the penalty of weight and wind drag.
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None of this is really about speed for me, so I'm not inflating to those pressures hoping to set a Strava personal best.
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It's also worth mentioning that nobody is forced to pump their tires to rock-hard psi. Even "skinny" tires can be run at reduced pressures, with the lower limit being enough pressure to prevent pinch flats. A "skinny" tire with reduced pressure enjoys all the advantages of the "fat" tire at reduced pressure, without the penalty of weight and wind drag.
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There was some discussion in another thread about the precise parameters of the term "retrogrouch."
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...wasn't it Jan Heine who originally popularized the "wider tires better" thing ? Talk about your retrogrouches.
I'd be the first one going wider and softer if I were riding around on cobblestones all day long here. I pay big taxes for smooth, paved streets.
nttawwcobblestones.
...wasn't it Jan Heine who originally popularized the "wider tires better" thing ? Talk about your retrogrouches.
I'd be the first one going wider and softer if I were riding around on cobblestones all day long here. I pay big taxes for smooth, paved streets.
nttawwcobblestones.
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steel frame does not automatically = heavy
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For starters, that's not what I wrote or suggested, although the lightest steel frames are indeed heavier than even mid-level cf frames.
The poster to whom I was responding doesn't ride one of the lightest steel frames; far from it, in fact.
And it is weird for a person riding a heavy old steel frame to then cite weight as a factor for not riding tires that are both faster and more comfortable.
The poster to whom I was responding doesn't ride one of the lightest steel frames; far from it, in fact.
And it is weird for a person riding a heavy old steel frame to then cite weight as a factor for not riding tires that are both faster and more comfortable.
Last edited by Koyote; 01-26-24 at 01:07 PM.
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#61
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My experience is getting the right pressure is key to getting best ride/speed for any size tire. for me the rene herse calculator seems to be best (as compared to the silca and others) https://www.renehersecycles.com/tire...culator-intro/
I am on the larger side 225 lb and have been riding 28 for a long time, I have rene herse 32's on my newest bike and they are smoother than the 28's but can only really tell when going over rougher areas
I also think that you can't just look at tires and size, but have to look at the whole wheel, tire, tube, tire type etc
Example: the smoothest, fastest, almost magic ride I have had is on 25 mm challenge elite tubular at 130 on a lighter mavic 330 rims.
and for tubie fans even Jan Heine says "tubies ride bigger"..i.e a 30mm tubular is similar to a 35 mm supple clincher
ride what works for you
I am on the larger side 225 lb and have been riding 28 for a long time, I have rene herse 32's on my newest bike and they are smoother than the 28's but can only really tell when going over rougher areas
I also think that you can't just look at tires and size, but have to look at the whole wheel, tire, tube, tire type etc
Example: the smoothest, fastest, almost magic ride I have had is on 25 mm challenge elite tubular at 130 on a lighter mavic 330 rims.
and for tubie fans even Jan Heine says "tubies ride bigger"..i.e a 30mm tubular is similar to a 35 mm supple clincher
ride what works for you
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Last edited by squirtdad; 01-26-24 at 01:48 PM.
#62
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No cf frames will ever be known by any of these adjectives.
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Nope. Not compared to modern heat-treated and air-hardened steels like Reynolds 853 and the True Temper equivalents. And even those frames, made of the latest and metallurgically greatest steels, are still significantly heavier than even inexpensive cf frames.
Agreed, though irrelevant to the present discussion.
Agreed, though irrelevant to the present discussion.
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I like my Cinelli to be as light as I can make it. Why do you have a problem with that endeavor?
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I live in fear of hydroplaning with my 32s. I suppose 23s might ease my mind.
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First, I ride a lightweight old steel frame, not a heavy one. Second, I'm not trying to ride the lightest bike possible. (I have an old Bicycling magazine from 2015 that talks about a 10.5 lbs Trek--I'm not looking to buy one). Third, I am trying to make the bike I own as light as possible. Have you ever tried to do that?
If your ride quality would be improved and yur rolling resistance lowered, you would gain the Effect of having dropped weight even though you might have added a couple hundred grams …. And since speed isn’t an issue, the fact that a bike which was a couple hundred grams heavier might be one tenth of a second slower up a ten-mile high-percentage incline (and faster everywhere else but you don’t care … ) wuld not be an important fact.
So … WHY do you want to make the bike ligtert when it will also be slowwr? What benefit do you gain from riding a lighter, slower bike?
The issue here is that you keep trying to present what you think is logic to support your positions but people keep pointing out that maybe you don’t understand what “logic” is.
No one cares how much your bike weighs, how fast you ride, or what size tires you use.
I mentioned the term “retrogrouch” because one definition of a ”retrogrouch” is a rider who knows, logically, that newer ideas are better, but refuses to accept them, and even derides them, saying “The old way is the right way,” …. Which is fine but illogical. Thios p[retty much makes to yhr poster-boy retrogrouch, at least on this issue.
You can take that as an insult if you like … your option. I don’t see it as being insulting, just an accurate description of a trend exhibited by a lot of older riders … and older people in general … “We didn’t need computers or calculators back in my day …. Back then we all failed at math and couldn’t find square roots to save our lives … and that was good enough.”
You have decided that even though lab testing a real-world testing also (those Wo5ld Tour teams aren’t running wider tires to be slower) shows that you could have improved performance---more than outweighing any loss due to 100 or 200 grams of added tire weight—that you just won’t change.
Cool. But when people question your logic, and you cannot provide logic to back up the decision, don’t expect people not to notice that.
I ask again …. What is the Logical reason for wanting your bike to be as light as possible …. And by the way, if that is what you Really wanted, logical consistency would indicate that you should be riding tubulars on ultralight rims.
Whatever.
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Funnily enough, Maelochs articulated my thoughts about you. We're talking past each other (as you and some other posters, in other threads, have talked past each other) because only one of us is talking in terms of empirical facts and logic. That's why I'm no longer responding to you - it's pointless.
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Glad I can comfortably disregard all the warm-fuzzy, "ride what you want and be happy," to which you pay great lip-service.
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The Colnago C40 nails all of those adjectives.
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