DaveLeeNC

Starting late last year I have run into a series of events/situations that have had a VERY negative effect on my riding. There were multiple injuries (back and knees), one extended illness, family travel, and a bunch of crappy weather. To net things out after 2-3 years of pretty steady 8 to 11 hour riding weeks (typical speeds of 18 to 19.5 mph - strictly solo and 99% traffic free), my riding dropped to roughly 1/3 of that level (starting around Christmas 2017).

And the net impact on my riding appeared to be minimal until roughly 4 weeks ago. At that point I sensed the beginning of a noticeable drop-off in my power output ( I ride with Garmin Vector pedals both indoors and outdoors). Four weeks after that my fitness (as measured by RPE vs. power output) had suddenly dropped by about 25%. Where a NP output of 220-230W for a 90 minute ride was normal for me just 4-6 weeks ago, 175W for an hour is now a struggle. I am now regularly seeing power #'s that are well below ANYTHING I have ever seen since getting my Vector pedals in 2015.

While I am not (in retrospect) surprised at where I ended up after losing 2/3'rds of my training for 4 months, the sudden/precipitous nature of that drop-off really surprised me.

Have others encountered that? BTW, I hit age 69 later this year so maybe that is a factor.

dave

OldTryGuy

At 65 in 2015 my DROP came on quickly after my bi-lateral orchiectomy for Prostate cancer. Having already warned the guys I ride with and having a complete understanding of the results from such an operation, it was simply the realization that there was a new me and that new me meant not being ever again able to ride the way I had. I've swapped speed for distance and now enjoy the longer albeit slower rides. (for the most part, since I still have that competitive nature that rears its ugly head now and then )

IMO, one must be comfortable in one's skin for peace of mind.

DaveLeeNC

Bi-lateral orchiectomy - I guess that puts my lower back spasm from hell, week of the flu, and 2 crappy (osteo-arthritis) knees in perspective.

I am wondering if it is possible to 'get back what I lost' (given the age issue). In my case there is no real non-age physical limitation other than the knees pretty much won't tolerate a ride of much over 2 hours.

Just for grins I attached a 'picture of what happened' (riding hours per week and when things dropped off). "50% drop off refers to the point at which I seemed to have lost half of the total power out decline of 25% that I experienced'. The 2'ish years prior to 7/2017 look pretty much like the time period of 7/2017 to 11/2017.

dave

Carbonfiberboy 

Yup. Took the winter off once, years ago. Took a vow to never do that again! As you say, complete disaster. Yes, it'll come back. That was probably when I was maybe 62? I picked it back up in I think February and by August I had it back. You've been doing at least some riding, so maybe you'll get it back more quickly.

redlude97

Do you have strava premium? Look at your fitness/fatigue/form chart plotted over the last year or two to get an idea. If you don't, use the stravastix plugin for chrome to get the same charts. Hours is not that representative of your efforts as TSS, CTL, ATL, TSB. I find it does a good job of tracking fatigue and detraining

DaveLeeNC

I have all that data loaded into TrainingPeaks WKO+ (no longer supported 3.0 version but it still works). So I have all that detail expressed in terms of TSS, CTL, ATL, and so on. I showed it in hours simply because in my case it actually is pretty representative of actual training effort (my rides don't vary all that much as I described) and not all readers here (I assume) think in TSS/etc terms (maybe I am wrong about that).

dave

redlude97

Hmm.. what about HR? RPE after a long layoff may be more of a perception than a reality. What about speed/ time over similar segments of rides?

hubcyclist

Well, my personal experience with this goes back to last year. In Oct 2016 I had an FTP of 265w, and was maybe in the best cycling shape since I started a few years back (I was averaging FTP doing zwift races and such). But I caught a pretty bad cold that month (like chest congestion type) that kept me off the bike for a few weeks and then I got busy with other life stuff through the winter. By March my FTP was more like 230-235. I spent the rest of 2017 regaining fitness. I'm happy to say I'm actually better than I was before, right now my FTP is maybe 275 or maybe 280 if I'm feeling really optimistic (my last workout was 4x12 over-unders with the 12mins average 280). But it was a heck of a lot of work getting back, not a lot of just fun rides and mainly on the trainer using trainerroad and 10hrs/week. Losing it is a lot easier than gaining it back!

DaveLeeNC

After I got used to power I tended to start ignoring HR. It was just too variable. In fact the battery in my Garmin HR strap went dead in December and I could not get the screws out to replace the battery. I didn't care so I didn't even replace it (until I ran into this situation recently where I just replaced the HRM strap). But I am not seeing any surprises here, but like I said it is something that I had been mostly ignoring (often not even bothering to put the HR strap on even when the battery was OK).

Almost all of my riding in 2018 has been on a spinner bike (which has Garmin Vector pedals for power). This was either a weather thing or the fact that the status of my knees was iffy and I really didn't want to be out there and encounter a knee issue. I do a lot of riding this way and am pretty familiar with how me and the #'s match up vs. me on my Bianchi outdoors.

What I know for sure is that on March 8 I rode (spinner bike) 35 minutes at 248 watts average, 249 watts NP. Then on March 16 I rode 30 minutes at 243 watts average ad 245 watts NP. Both of these were strong, but not maximum efforts and the times were limited by what I was told I needed to adhere to given the knee injections I was receiving.

Four weeks later I could not have held those levels for more than a couple minutes. And yes, the speeds that I see are down a couple mph as you would expect.

dave

ps. As of about 10 days ago, the knee issues as I feel them (given rides of 2 hours or less) and training limitations as dictated by treatment are a thing of the past (for now).

DaveLeeNC

FWIW, after a couple weeks of regular riding about half of what I lost came back. The other half, I am pretty certain, is going to take much longer than that. But at least I no longer feel 'weak and pathetic' when I ride. OTOH, I don't feel like I used to feel either. Still waiting for the day when training results are available in pill form :-)

dave

DaveLeeNC

I thought that I would update this old thread that I started where, after the previously described reduction in training, 50+% less training, resulted in a quite sudden 25+% drop in power measured fitness.

In summary my training is back to old levels (18 months after the previously described detraining), and in net I have lost between 5% and 10% (no more than that). Note that my DOB is 11/1949. And I don't get the sense that I will be getting that 5+% back, but cannot be sure about that..

FWIW.

dave

Hermes

Test equipment requires period calibration. Do you send in your PM for calibration? Your results may be better than you think or ahem, the other way.

DaveLeeNC

I was not aware of this being an option, although it makes sense. The "Calibration" offered by my Garmin Vector Pedals are, from what I can tell, really just a system checkout and zero'ing step.

But in my case I have a second pair of Vectors on a indoor spin bike. I am not seeing a Power vs RPE difference indicating a difference between them. And I am seeing the kind of (not that big) speed falloff that I would expect. So probably not in this case.

Does anyone know if Garmin offers a calibration?

dave

Hermes

You can call Garmin but I did a quick search and found these guys in the UK who will calibrate Garmin pedals using a known weight. https://www.cyclepowermeters.com/ser...libration.html I do not know if Garmin offers a service.

Longer climbs where you have time data and know body weight from prior years will provide a pretty good idea if the power meter is off and if you are getting slower or faster.

My SRM has to go in for a new battery every couple of years and during the battery change, SRM does a calibration and updates the firmware. Quarq provide a mobile app to calibrate the PM with a known weight. And one can do the same with SRM.

zacster

I went through a similar process over the last few years. I rode through the winter of 2017/18 on a trainer using Zwift and The Sufferfest and came out in the spring really strong, stronger than I'd ever been, and just felt like I could blast up any hill and maintain a high power and speed. I continued that up until around November, 2018. Then there was a family issue that kept me off the bike for a few weeks, and related to that family issue I did something in my back lifting a box, and that spiraled down my leg. Ugh. I tried going back on the trainer and felt comfortable enough but realized I'd already lost some strength, and then there were more family issues. I tried to keep up but looking at the logs I was doing maybe half the time, and at a lower power. From late spring until now I kept trying to kick it back up to the time that I'd spent but there was always something getting in the way, like 2 overseas trips for work, 2 vacations, and now even having contractors in my house doing work. I just can't seem to find the time to do all the riding that I want. And the real crazy thing is I retired in August after all that travel and have less time to ride than when I was working, where every day was 2 hours of cycle commuting, and riding hard while doing it.

While I really prefer to do outdoor riding, who doesn't, I'm beginning to think getting on the trainer (Kickr Core) would be more consistent and would more likely get me to the next level again. I did a Zwift ride last night and had to keep the power at 90% of prior FTP, although I did put it back to 100% for the hardest part.

DaveLeeNC

zacster, how much time per session and time per week can you 'stand' just training indoors?


And thanks for the info.

dave