Guerciotti BB Crack?
08-23-19, 01:40 PM
#51
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UPDATE
The seller and I conversed via email and he offered to refund the entire purchase price (not including shipping) and let me keep the bike. I told him that taking something for nothing is stealing in my book so I countered with the maximum amount I would have offered/paid had I driven down and seen the frame issues firsthand (meaning he adjusts down the amount he sends me). He really stepped up in my book and I give him credit for doing something many people don't want to do these days, the right thing. Apparently, he lives by the same code I do; my good name is worth more to me than ANY amount of money.
When the transaction is complete, I'll strip everything off the frame, take loads of photos for paint and decal placement, then take it up to Franklin Frame here in Ohio. I'll know more after he assesses it and gives me his determination. Suffice to say, this frame and fork will live to ride again, albeit with modern components as it will be in the regular riding rotation.
The seller and I conversed via email and he offered to refund the entire purchase price (not including shipping) and let me keep the bike. I told him that taking something for nothing is stealing in my book so I countered with the maximum amount I would have offered/paid had I driven down and seen the frame issues firsthand (meaning he adjusts down the amount he sends me). He really stepped up in my book and I give him credit for doing something many people don't want to do these days, the right thing. Apparently, he lives by the same code I do; my good name is worth more to me than ANY amount of money.
When the transaction is complete, I'll strip everything off the frame, take loads of photos for paint and decal placement, then take it up to Franklin Frame here in Ohio. I'll know more after he assesses it and gives me his determination. Suffice to say, this frame and fork will live to ride again, albeit with modern components as it will be in the regular riding rotation.
DD
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08-23-19, 06:00 PM
#53
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UPDATE
The seller and I conversed via email and he offered to refund the entire purchase price (not including shipping) and let me keep the bike. I told him that taking something for nothing is stealing in my book so I countered with the maximum amount I would have offered/paid had I driven down and seen the frame issues firsthand (meaning he adjusts down the amount he sends me). He really stepped up in my book and I give him credit for doing something many people don't want to do these days, the right thing. Apparently, he lives by the same code I do; my good name is worth more to me than ANY amount of money.
When the transaction is complete, I'll strip everything off the frame, take loads of photos for paint and decal placement, then take it up to Franklin Frame here in Ohio. I'll know more after he assesses it and gives me his determination. Suffice to say, this frame and fork will live to ride again, albeit with modern components as it will be in the regular riding rotation.
The seller and I conversed via email and he offered to refund the entire purchase price (not including shipping) and let me keep the bike. I told him that taking something for nothing is stealing in my book so I countered with the maximum amount I would have offered/paid had I driven down and seen the frame issues firsthand (meaning he adjusts down the amount he sends me). He really stepped up in my book and I give him credit for doing something many people don't want to do these days, the right thing. Apparently, he lives by the same code I do; my good name is worth more to me than ANY amount of money.
When the transaction is complete, I'll strip everything off the frame, take loads of photos for paint and decal placement, then take it up to Franklin Frame here in Ohio. I'll know more after he assesses it and gives me his determination. Suffice to say, this frame and fork will live to ride again, albeit with modern components as it will be in the regular riding rotation.
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08-23-19, 08:01 PM
#54
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Kudos to both of you @nomadmax, its nice to read of two men not going off on ballistic postings and name calling about something. That's keeping everything straight in your seabag Chesty!
Semper Fi,
Bill
Semper Fi,
Bill
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I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977
I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
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08-24-19, 02:14 AM
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I hope it won't take too long to get this accomplished, I'm hoping to be done and on the road before the end of season.While the money of shipping these things is certainly a factor, it's the possible complete loss from damage that always has me worried. Yeah there's insurance, but you can't just go to the shop and buy another one of these bikes. Moreover, I want the bike, not the money. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do; thankfully, I'm retired so my wife understands if I tell her "I'm leaving tomorrow to drive a thousand miles and see a man about a bike".
Last edited by nomadmax; 08-24-19 at 02:21 AM.
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08-26-19, 10:28 AM
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I have a 64CM Guerciotti frame that I have been riding since 1984; I'm 6'4" and hover between 235 to 245 pounds. The Guerciotti frames between around 1982 and 1990 were imported bare and painted in the US. The frame workmanship is incredible but the paint quality brutal.
I've never had any issues with cracks but have been touching up paint issues from the first year I owned the bike. It looks to me like the previous owners attempted a quick fix by spraying the frame without properly sanding or cleaning the problem areas. If you enjoy the way the bike rides I'd recommend taking the paint down to the metal and doing a proper refinish. I can pretty much guarantee you there are no issues with the frame itself unless the bike was in a few real bad crashes. From your photos of the bb area note that all of the actual brazing / welding on these frames is internal. Also, the crack marks are in the middle areas of where the lugs are and not at the tube / lug interface where cracks are typically evidence of major problems.
I've never had any issues with cracks but have been touching up paint issues from the first year I owned the bike. It looks to me like the previous owners attempted a quick fix by spraying the frame without properly sanding or cleaning the problem areas. If you enjoy the way the bike rides I'd recommend taking the paint down to the metal and doing a proper refinish. I can pretty much guarantee you there are no issues with the frame itself unless the bike was in a few real bad crashes. From your photos of the bb area note that all of the actual brazing / welding on these frames is internal. Also, the crack marks are in the middle areas of where the lugs are and not at the tube / lug interface where cracks are typically evidence of major problems.
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08-26-19, 02:22 PM
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UPDATE
Seller's check arrived, the deal is forever done no matter how it turns out. I have an appointment with Jack Trumbull of Franklin Frame on Wednesday at 1100 hours. He will do what repairs are needed, move and change the rear brake cable guides to just two on the side and a run of bare cable, set the rear to 130mm, align it, chrome the dropouts & right chainstay (which will be replaced), paint and finally decal it. I'm committed to saving and riding this bike. A few pics of the tear down
Me on one of my old Guerciottis chasing down a Canadian here in the US during the 80s.
At least the jersey still fits but now there's more hair on my legs than there is on my head
Seller's check arrived, the deal is forever done no matter how it turns out. I have an appointment with Jack Trumbull of Franklin Frame on Wednesday at 1100 hours. He will do what repairs are needed, move and change the rear brake cable guides to just two on the side and a run of bare cable, set the rear to 130mm, align it, chrome the dropouts & right chainstay (which will be replaced), paint and finally decal it. I'm committed to saving and riding this bike. A few pics of the tear down
Me on one of my old Guerciottis chasing down a Canadian here in the US during the 80s.
At least the jersey still fits but now there's more hair on my legs than there is on my head
Last edited by nomadmax; 08-27-19 at 10:32 AM.
08-26-19, 04:25 PM
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@nomadmax, All great news, full speed ahead! 
08-28-19, 12:59 PM
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UPDATE
I'm back from dropping off the Guerciotti with Jack of Franklin Frame, now I can relax. I'll know more when he digs into it but nothing is really going to change, this project is happening, high water or not. For now, I need some 84GLX Guerciotti photos, I know one person here has an 84 SLX bike in blue but for the life of me I can't think of his user name. I'd like to get some reference photos for the color match and decals.
Price? Don't ask; that way if you ever meet my wife you'll have plausible deniability
I'm back from dropping off the Guerciotti with Jack of Franklin Frame, now I can relax. I'll know more when he digs into it but nothing is really going to change, this project is happening, high water or not. For now, I need some 84GLX Guerciotti photos, I know one person here has an 84 SLX bike in blue but for the life of me I can't think of his user name. I'd like to get some reference photos for the color match and decals.
Price? Don't ask; that way if you ever meet my wife you'll have plausible deniability
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08-28-19, 06:34 PM
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a totally worthwhile project and I am subscribing for the updates...BTW did you confirm if there actually WAS any crack-damage to the BB shell where suspected?
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08-28-19, 07:17 PM
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Here's the expensive part, when he's finished with this frame and fork, I'll probably have him build me another road bike
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08-29-19, 12:31 PM
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Jack was in the middle of something at his shop so we spent all our time talking about what I wanted the bike to be when I got it back and of mutual friends from my racing days. He said he wouldn't know until he stripped it. He is going to replace the right chainstay that was dented among other "upgrades". If it needs a BB shell he'll do that too.
Here's the expensive part, when he's finished with this frame and fork, I'll probably have him build me another road bike
Here's the expensive part, when he's finished with this frame and fork, I'll probably have him build me another road bike
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08-29-19, 12:55 PM
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You can't put nuthin' by that Cajun.
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08-31-19, 08:29 AM
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+1 I probably wouldn't do more, but the new paint would stick to the frames, and THAT would be wicked cool! I might even get a few bits of chrome done. In most cases using paint is good enough, chrome being such nasty stuff, but I have a couple of bikes that deserve complete restoration. I have heard rumors that there is someone in Northern NJ, high quality, and inexpensive, but somehow, when I ask "who"... the thread dies or the question is ignored.
09-02-19, 04:01 AM
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+1 I probably wouldn't do more, but the new paint would stick to the frames, and THAT would be wicked cool! I might even get a few bits of chrome done. In most cases using paint is good enough, chrome being such nasty stuff, but I have a couple of bikes that deserve complete restoration. I have heard rumors that there is someone in Northern NJ, high quality, and inexpensive, but somehow, when I ask "who"... the thread dies or the question is ignored.
Both rear chainstays & dropouts
Fork crown & dropouts
Chrome ain't cheap
The color will be the Guerciotti GLX84 translucent blue (including the fork blades) and it will be decaled as it was from TSDI. I currently have request in at Velo Cals to reproduce the TSDI sticker on the bottom of the downtube. The neon paint added a lot to the restore as it has a white base coat, then orange, then green, then clear coat. As mentioned above, Jack said the paint is only available in larger than needed quantities and isn't on the cheap side. I opted to get as close as I could to one of my old bikes instead. The frame below is an SLX bike and this one is an SL. It will decaled correctly down the frame material so there will no mistake that it's masquerading as something that it's not.
I haven't decided on components yet, I have enough Campy 10 speed stuff to make it happen but who knows, I might go Campy 12 with a 32/48 crank. All I know is I'll be excited to see it come to fruition
Last edited by nomadmax; 09-02-19 at 04:05 AM.
09-02-19, 06:50 AM
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I think there will be quite a bit of corrosion under the paint, and likely a cracked BB shell. I recently stripped and repaired an older frame I had and once the paint came off there was corrosion is places not readily apparent from first review. In order to get nice chrome work you need smooth metal. You can't chrome over corrosion pitting. Just cautioning you in advance. It might be better to keep your hopes lower on this one.
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09-02-19, 08:40 AM
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I think there will be quite a bit of corrosion under the paint, and likely a cracked BB shell. I recently stripped and repaired an older frame I had and once the paint came off there was corrosion is places not readily apparent from first review. In order to get nice chrome work you need smooth metal. You can't chrome over corrosion pitting. Just cautioning you in advance. It might be better to keep your hopes lower on this one.
Nor is there going to be an issue if there's a cracked BB...the thing is going to the framebuilder, after all.
-Kurt
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09-02-19, 10:58 AM
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I keep thinking that if the crack is actually through the BB shell, it would be such a good candidate for sesquilaminate repair!! 
That bike is lucky it's not mine. I'm not to be trusted...
That bike is lucky it's not mine. I'm not to be trusted...
09-02-19, 11:02 AM
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Replacing a BB isn't trivial. Personally, if by chance the BB isn't cracked I'd leave the chain stay alone and go straight to a repaint. Builders dimple chain stays all the time and the indentations they leave are larger than that dent shown.
09-02-19, 12:49 PM
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Those chainstay dents could be filled with silver, if the high points are not that obtrusive.
-Kurt
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09-02-19, 03:19 PM
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https://www.franklinframe.com/
The chainstay won't be filled under any circumstance, it will be replaced with a Columbus SL stay. Here's a link to some of Jack's work with chrome, he seems to be knowledgeable about that as well.
https://16incheswestofpeoria.wordpre...jack-turnbull/
I am fortunate to live not too far from him and we know some people in common. You know what they say, you can accomplish just about anything with enough money
Last edited by nomadmax; 12-19-19 at 06:57 AM.
09-02-19, 03:39 PM
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