tiger1964 

Months after: crank-retightening-retightening

...and using a Token brand Italian thread bottom bracket (yeah, via Amazon), 70mm shell and 111mm spindle length (just rechecked), and the Avocet cranks. Worked but squeaked.

I finally got a set of Campy cranks through a forum member. Great! I just went to install. No go. I knew the Avocets were not drawing all the way in, leaving a lot of space where the tip of the spindle was nowhere near flush with the crank arm's surface; therefore, it would draw up a bit more.

Well, just press-fitting by hand, there's perhaps 1mm clearance to the (42T) inner chainring, and clearly it will touch if I even try to tighten the mounting bolt. That's before chainline alignment checking.

So, longer spindle. I've been looking on-line looking for one. Ouch! Token's website shows two, regular or Ti, #'s TK8675TBT and TK8695TBT respectively, 115mm. Cannot find anything English-language to pick one up. Searching further afield, willing to change brands, still coming up (ahem) short. Must be ISO, must be Italian BB threads, I like the sealed bearings and I have the multi-spline Shimano-esque installation tool now. Velo-Orange only has JIS taper. Someone mentioned Origin8 but on-line I only see JIS taper too so that's out.

Gee whiz, someone must be running Campy cranks in an Italian frame and need a bottom bracket. What am I missing?

TenGrainBread 

Here's a Centaur bb on ebay that seems to match your needs. These look to be symmetrical spindles, if that's ok.

EDIT: You might be running into issues with your current 111mm because the Campy crank needs an asymmetric BB. Just a thought.

tiger1964 

Thanks, I'll make a note of it. Temporarily, I put the Avocet cranks back on.

While thinking it over, I recalled I had some BB spacers. Made by/for Wheels Manufacturing, sold through Velo Orange; I have one 0.7mm and one 1.8mm. Never used because, "not for Italian" which is larger diameter, slightly. I am pondering trying to Dremel-out the inside diameter on both by 1mm, that might buy me space. Furthermore, I see some place called MTB Tools that sells Italian spacers in varying thicknesses in case (a) I cannot modify these, and/or (b) I need more/different spacing to get the chainline correct. BTW, only about 3mm clearance even with the Avocets. Plenty of room on the non-Drive side.

jiangshi

Which model Campy crank?

Kuromori

I think the Origin8 and Token are from the same factory anyways, so it's really just an availability thing. The 115mm were meant for ergopower square taper triples for seat tubes 32mm or more, or something like that, so not terribly common, and if you do pick up a Campy BB, you'll need the campy BB/cassette tool, which interestingly can also double as a freewheel tool. For some reason Shimano felt like making separate standards for all of these.

squirtdad

What year cranks are you talking?

Avocet were made by Ofmega and depending on age could be their own spindle taper see https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html (this also talks about JIS/ISO)

very little details as to what exactly "old" means.

84is it seems ofmega was ISO, but like campy it was not a symmetrical spindle.

I had a hard time getting an 84 ofmega crank to work with a miche ISO bb....just not long enough spindle...getting no chainstay clearance. ..and finally found an actual ofmega ball and cone BB to use

so bottom line...it is IME not a black and white thing

jeirvine 

Phil Wood would be a good option. And I do have an Italian post-CPSC Record BB if you want to go cup and cone.
-J

tiger1964 

And thus seems a bit extreme.

The campy are Record/SR, not certain of year. My earlier topics describe my travails with the Avocet cranks, thus they are being replaced, and planning on keeping the Token BB but let's see.

Thanks; if the spacers don't work, it's an option.

tiger1964 

Well, today I have the new cranks on -- about ready for a test ride. I took those two spacer/washers, (0.7mm & 1.8mm), and laboriously opened them up to barely fit on an Italian bottom bracket under the fixed cup. The hardest part was holding them in a gloved hand, I could not get them stable in a vice. I now have about 3mm clearance between the teeth of the inner chainring and the chain stay. Checking chainline with thread, outer ring aligned with 4th cog (of 6). non-drive side arm comes crest to the chain stay then the drive side, by a whisper.

HOWEVER -- ran into a surprise. The "Token" brand sealed bottom bracket I installed not all that many miles ago seems really gritty. Being sealed and new, shouldn't it be butter-smooth? Not as noticeable once the crank arms are on, instead of just turning the spindle with my fingers, but the extra friction must be affecting performance. I still want to replace it but ISO Italian bottom brackets seem to be thin on the ground -- if anyone knows sources, I am interested.

Thanks, and I'll consider that.

Also, I see a wee bit of runout on what appears to be only the outer chainring (have not put a dial indicator on it yet; not sure how to attach to a bicycle!) Any idea on what to do about it? Or live with it? I guess if I don't run into grinding against the FD cage, it's a non-issue. Probably 1mm... who knows, maybe less.

mpetry912 

A little bit of runout on the rings can be resolved with some judicious bending using you B. F. Screwdriver.

if it's way off (more than say 5 mm) then determine the cause. Are the cranks on straight ? Does the pedal spindle seem eccentric ?

There are a lot of problems with cheap bottom brackets. Many are Nt Wrth Sht. Phil is expensive and determining the correct length / offset is a bit of a fine art, but they last essentially forever and are a top quality part.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA

squirtdad

Check out Miche for BB in ISO (IIRC that was one thing I tried back when i was fighting the ofmega crank) and also IIRC token is not terrbly high end.....so it could wear sooner than you wold think

JohnDThompson 

BITD, we used steel Sturmey-Archer cog spacers for this. These will fit under an English or French fixed cup, no problem. For the larger diameter Italian cup, we just snipped the spacer so it could expand a little to fit under the cup. Mush easier than precision dremelling.

tiger1964 

Well, I just changed the BB again. Thanks to member John Irvine (who had earlier supplied the cranks) I got a nice old Campy ball-n-cone bottom bracket. Correct spindle length, so my laboriously altered under-cup washers are now superfluous. It looks like I don't even have to readjust the FD. Thinking I took about 7-10 tries before satisfied with the correct setting on the adjustable cup, but I'll consider that time well spent. Pretty smooth. I discovered that a "generic" plastic BB sleeve might come up a bit short on an Italian BB shell, so I fabricated a "spacer" (which I inserted tediously with tweezers and a toothpick, then slid in the bearings and spindle and screwed on the adjustable cup... just as I noticed the plastic sleeve still sitting on the table ).

Oddly, where I stated the riding season on sealed-bearing BB and hubs, now "retrograde" and all those are now ball-n-cone.

Anyone know how to open up a sealed BB without expensive tools? The Token brand unit that I took out feels really nasty, I wonder if there is any lube inside... manufacturing error? I'd like a look inside.

I did spend some time on the Phil Wood website, and I was tempted; but the full set-up including tool gets close to what I paid for the frame.