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Does this cassette look too far gone?

Old 09-06-19, 06:43 PM
  #1  
Synack42
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Does this cassette look too far gone?

I recently installed this used wheelset on a project bike. I've noticed that I get quite a bit of chain skip when pedaling under heavy load, like in strong headwind or especially from a stop. Chainrings look almost like new and the chain is a brand new KMC Z51 that was sized according to a calculator online.

Thanks
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Old 09-06-19, 06:48 PM
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yes
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Old 09-06-19, 06:49 PM
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If a new chain skips, what else is left?
That appears it might be an old Uni Glide cassette. Is the smallest cog threaded on?
All BUT the smallest cog can be flipped over and the other side used.
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Old 09-06-19, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
If a new chain skips, what else is left?
That appears it might be an old Uni Glide cassette. Is the smallest cog threaded on?

All BUT the smallest cog can be flipped over and the other side used.
I must admit flipping cogs over, I would have though not worked as the cogs are direction profiled, & side plates chamfered to allow easy indexing, so I assume you've done this before ? if so I've learnt something
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Old 09-06-19, 11:58 PM
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This is clearly not a Uniglide cassette. There is no flipping any of them over to get more life out of them.
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Old 09-07-19, 06:48 AM
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I've always understood that you can't really measure wear on a cassette or chain rings, like you can a chain. The deciding factor seems to be "does the chain jump?". Visually, the cassette looks very used, with evidence of a lot of shifts on it (scratches and wear marks on the sides of each sprocket). The chain should definitely not skip under only moderate load (like into a wind) and, if you can rule-out things like ghost shifting from a mis-adjusted derailleur, you can probably put this cassette on the list for replacement.
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Old 09-07-19, 07:03 AM
  #7  
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I have seen worse cassettes being used. If you are on a dime, and there is no chain skip, keep using it.
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Old 09-07-19, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick
I have seen worse cassettes being used. If you are on a dime, and there is no chain skip, keep using it.
Clearly from the OP the chain does skip and badly at that. As noted, appearance doesn't tell you much, performance does. He needs a new cassette.
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Old 09-07-19, 04:37 PM
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My view here from the chap seats is that the lowest four rings are well worm beyond repair or flipping over. My experience is that flipping the rings over only lasts for a few weeks, so why bother. The cost of the four rings will be more than a new cassette from KMC or even Shimano. Since it was a co-op cassette look for another or just buy one there, our co-op sells for 10% over cost which is dirt cheap. Smiles, MH
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Old 09-09-19, 06:20 AM
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That casette could probably still be used for quite a while with the previous chain (i.e. the one that caused the wear on the cassette), but it is too worn for a new chain.
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Old 09-09-19, 08:17 AM
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So, assuming chains are changed at proper intervals, what's a rough estimate of how many chains you could get with a cassette, and roughly how many total miles through a single cassette? (yeah,I realize there are numerous factors involved, but a useful,accurate rough estimate shouldn't be tough to come up with).
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Old 09-11-19, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Brocephus
So, assuming chains are changed at proper intervals, what's a rough estimate of how many chains you could get with a cassette, and roughly how many total miles through a single cassette? (yeah,I realize there are numerous factors involved, but a useful,accurate rough estimate shouldn't be tough to come up with).
The experiment is still running on my 7-speed cassettes, highest mileage one is close to 10,000 miles and I'm hoping for many more.

Ray Hosler reports 25,000 on a 10-speed cassette, provided everything is maintained well: https://rayhosler.com/2016/05/02/ult...s-25000-miles/
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Old 09-11-19, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Brocephus
So, assuming chains are changed at proper intervals, what's a rough estimate of how many chains you could get with a cassette, and roughly how many total miles through a single cassette? (yeah,I realize there are numerous factors involved, but a useful,accurate rough estimate shouldn't be tough to come up with).
If you want to maximize the life of a cassette, rotate 3-4 chains and by the time the chains are all worn the cassette is likely done as well, while the chainrings can usually go through at least another set of chains. So 10k+miles easily
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Old 09-11-19, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
If you want to maximize the life of a cassette, rotate 3-4 chains and by the time the chains are all worn the cassette is likely done as well, while the chainrings can usually go through at least another set of chains. So 10k+miles easily
Hunh. I just had to replace my cassette, but the chain is still within tolerance (recumbent). Cassette was and is a Shimano, chain a KMC, both original equipment from 2014.
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Old 09-11-19, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot
Hunh. I just had to replace my cassette, but the chain is still within tolerance (recumbent). Cassette was and is a Shimano, chain a KMC, both original equipment from 2014.
My guess would be that's because it's on a recumbent. You can;t jump out of the saddle and hammer on a recumbent, like you can with a regular bike, so the chain doesn't get the same tension, and wear. How many miles have you put on that single chain and cassette?
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Old 09-11-19, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Brocephus
My guess would be that's because it's on a recumbent. You can;t jump out of the saddle and hammer on a recumbent, like you can with a regular bike, so the chain doesn't get the same tension, and wear. How many miles have you put on that single chain and cassette?
My guess is that since it's on a recumbent, it has a LOT more chain to spread the wear.
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Old 09-12-19, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
My guess is that since it's on a recumbent, it has a LOT more chain to spread the wear.
That thought occurred to me, too, about 3-4 times as much chain as an upright. I haven't kept good records of time and distance (yeah, I know I should) but a SWAG (scientific wild-assed guess) would be ~4000. (Medical issues have interfered on several years.) Your other point, that you can't drive the bike with your weight, is probably also significant. That's one thing I like about recumbents: whatever you do is your own muscles, not gravity (except going down-slope.) In cycling, we all know that whatever comes down must also go up.

Last edited by Lightning Pilot; 09-12-19 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Added content
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Old 09-12-19, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
My guess is that since it's on a recumbent, it has a LOT more chain to spread the wear.
Yeah, but "spreading the wear" on the cassette....or the chain? I'm thinking it wouldn't matter if the chain were a (theoretical) 100 feet long, (everything else being equal) the pedal strokes, wheel rotations, distance traveled, and the chain's wear on the cassette, wouldn't change an iota.
The chain itself (or a given section of it) would get less physical exposure to the cassette cogs, and presumably the entire chain would receive less wear because of it, but the cassette (what the OP is actually asking about here) would receive the same exposure/chain rub that it would with a shorter chain, and wear no differently. Or that's what I'm thinking, anyway.
(and even though I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical, just shooting the breeze here, but in typical bikeforums tradition, I'll be standing by for a scathing ball-busting )
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Old 09-12-19, 03:46 PM
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I think the comment was that the recumbent bike had a cassette wear out before the chain, which is usually not the case with typical bikes. It appears that everyone's in agreement that the much longer chain delays wear-out of the chain, but cassettes will continue to wear at the expected rate.
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Old 09-12-19, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Brocephus
Yeah, but "spreading the wear" on the cassette....or the chain? I'm thinking it wouldn't matter if the chain were a (theoretical) 100 feet long, (everything else being equal) the pedal strokes, wheel rotations, distance traveled, and the chain's wear on the cassette, wouldn't change an iota.
The chain itself (or a given section of it) would get less physical exposure to the cassette cogs, and presumably the entire chain would receive less wear because of it, but the cassette (what the OP is actually asking about here) would receive the same exposure/chain rub that it would with a shorter chain, and wear no differently. Or that's what I'm thinking, anyway.
(and even though I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical, just shooting the breeze here, but in typical bikeforums tradition, I'll be standing by for a scathing ball-busting )
Could you at least be attentive?
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Old 09-12-19, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hokiefyd
I think the comment was that the recumbent bike had a cassette wear out before the chain, which is usually not the case with typical bikes. It appears that everyone's in agreement that the much longer chain delays wear-out of the chain, but cassettes will continue to wear at the expected rate.
A chain that takes longer to wear out should mean the cassette (assuming new) wears out "less fast", since wear on either part accelerates wear on the other.
OTOH, if one part is "semi worn", one could expect it to cause the other "new" part to start to wear a bit prematurely.
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Old 09-13-19, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hokiefyd
I think the comment was that the recumbent bike had a cassette wear out before the chain, which is usually not the case with typical bikes. It appears that everyone's in agreement that the much longer chain delays wear-out of the chain, but cassettes will continue to wear at the expected rate.
I agree.

In most machining, "wear" has tolerances. When one part of a pair exceeds tolerances, the other part will begin to wear faster. However, if the worn part is replaced, and the other "old" or partially worn but still within tolerance remains, wear will return to a more or less constant rate for both, because both are still within tolerance.

In this particular case, the chain will be replaced no later than the end of my riding season, and will be checked more frequently until that time, and be replaced sooner if it falls out of tolerance.
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Old 09-15-19, 05:01 PM
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Sorry about the long hiatus, took me a while to get around to looking at this again. I ended up swapping the wheelset from my daily driver, no change... Swapped out for another used rear derailleur I had laying around, no change...

Turns out it was the freaking brand new chain! I swapped it out with a used one that wasn't all rusted and nasty, checked it with a gauge. (Came off another bike altogether, not from either wheelset I used.) Worked perfectly on the first try out of the driveway.

Crazy, I use a KMC Z-51 on the daily driver and have used them multiple times for friends and family. Might start upgrading to the KMC Z-72 out of paranoia now...

Thanks everyone for the help.
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Old 09-15-19, 05:18 PM
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You need a new cassette
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Old 09-16-19, 09:26 AM
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Can you more experienced people on the forums here tell me how you could tell a new cassette was needed? To my untrained eye, the cassette looked good. The teeth were not sharp points which is what I'd expect from a worn cassette. Appreciate your insight. Cheers.
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