zwickerz

So I recently got a really cheap Peugeot uo8, and in hopes of getting it running again I discovered much of it was extremely rusted and much of the parts needed to be replaced. I have some square tapered cranks and was looking at just getting a new BB, but as it turns out French bb's don't come around often. The only new option I found was from VeloOrange, and used ebay options are even more expensive. I was wondering if anyone has removed a spindle from a used (Or new) bb and placed it in french bb cups? I feel like this could be an option but I have never done it and can't seem to find anyone who has. Thanks in advance!

merziac

Welcome aboard, glad you found us, we will be happy to help as best we can.

Assuming you know a UO8 is the entry level model with lots of fans, classic bike boom first bike for many.

It will be somewhat of a challenge no matter what, being as you are new to this, the french thing can be tough on even the hardiest of souls.

If the spindle is bad, the cups may be as well and they can be one of the most challenging thing on bikes to get out if they are rusted in place. Key in my mind is to bring the "A" game at the beginning, assume it is stuck and prepare for that from the get go as any damage from failed attempts will make the task much harder.

On top of that mixing and matching these parts usually requires a selection of parts to work with. The best way to start this is to find a bike co-op or kitchen near you and volunteer there for help.

I have a foolproof method for this that never failed me or anyone that I know of, like I said it requires good tools and some skill to wield them.

Oh, and go around, say "Hi" and of comment on other posts to get to 10 and then, "pics or it didn't happen", we need em to help and they are a must, good ones and plenty of them.

Good tools are a must for this and the older french stuff can be challenging to find them for if they are from before most standardized them, pics will help us with this.

zwickerz

I do know of its entry levelness and is why I bought it (along with the low price for my area). The fact that there are so many available means I have no fears if I do manage to somehow destroy it. As for the spindle and the cups, they are okay actually, its the crank with a bent cotter loged in one side thats the problem. I manage to get the adjustable cup off easily and am await the the delivery of the hcw-4 parktool to the remove the fixed cup. I coud've just went out and bought a bigger wrench but I wanted the proper tool for future issues. Ill be sure to bring it by my local re-cycle store and Ill update the post with
pictures as I work on the bike and get it riding again.

3alarmer 

...yes, I have done this. It was much more of a practical option when everything was cup and cone BB, so there were a bunch of various spindles hanging around in the used parts stream. Unless you can find a co-op nearby that has a box or bin of them, it's just easier, faster, and a better option to spend the 40 bucks on the Velo Orange cartridge BB. You're probably gonna spend more than that on a used or new decent square taper crank anyway. Buy the new crank first, so you'll know which length spindle you require for that crank...they vary.

...the wrench in and of itself is not gonna get the fixed cup out of a Peugeot that old. If it does, it will just be blind luck. .. happens about once in 50 times on a bike that old where the fixed cup has been rarely or never pulled. There're a couple of threads on fixed cup removal, and there might even be something remaining in the tips and tricks thread that shows you how to use a long bolt and some fender washers to hold the wrench on the cup flats so you can hit it with a hammer or a dead blow hammer. You probably already know that with French standards, both sides are Right hand threads. So hit it in the proper direction after applying some penetrating oil to the thread interfaces.

You remove a bent or stuck cotter by drilling. It's relatively soft steel. So if you want to re-use the cottered crank, drilling out that cotter and replacing both of them with new ones of the proper taper after cleaning and re-lubricating the bearings is probably your cheapest and most workable option. The bonus is you don't have to remove the fixed cup, which is always a blessing. RH threaded fixed cups are usually stuck in there pretty solidly. Otherwise, they have a tendency to back out in use. You need a press if you are gonna hang onto a bike with cottered cranks. Either that or find someone who does...you can usually get by for 5-6 years in between service intervals on them, sometimes longer depending on use and conditions.

dddd

I sometimes wonder why folks don't just leave the UO8 crankset/bb alone, I've seen many cases where the bb was still ok, still in good adjustment(!), yet one or both of the cotters having been destroyed by attempt(s) at removal.

The original cups, spindle (and cotters!) were of good quality and amply hardened, so where possible I recommend simply lubing the bb externally, using either thick oil dripped in or a good blast from an aerosol lithium grease can.

Adjustment of the bb is easily accomplished with the left arm in place as well, if that's even needed(?).

For actually removing the cotters, one needs to be prepared to use a propane torch, heating the "hub" of the crankarm to the point of oil smoke issuing from this area. A cotter press is helpful, but not necessary, and as far as securing the cotters, one should alternate nut tightening with hammer blows to the head of the cotter until no more nut rotation is wanting to happen.

One last thing is that chainrings can be trued in place, usually starting with blows to the three bolts using a 3# hammer and a thick wooden dowel. From there, an adjustable wrench can straighten any bent teeth and further correct any minor waves in the chainrings.

These cranks can be re-tapped for modern pedals, and the chainrings can be found in 52-42t, 52-40t and 52-36t combinations.

Editing here, just now seeing 3alarmer's post:
The fixed cup tends never to come loose as installed from the factory, so best to leave it be.
<<<<Don't remove the fixed cup unless you can assuredly re-install it to a very high level of torque!>>>>
And yes, for damaged cotters, drilling from the head side working up to a 3/16" drill bit really helps allow the cotter to come out. One needs to center the drill so that it doesn't run into the hardened surface of the bb spindle flat, which would tend to destroy the cutting edges but won't even faze the spindle itself.
Any replacement cotter will unfortunately be of lesser material hardness than the French original parts, so doubly emphasizing here that it fit properly (filed as needed!) and be installed "heavily" according to the method I described above.

merziac

Sounds good, many will tell you the fixed driveside cup does not need to come out which is not correct, it needs to come out so it can and will in the future and you may have to replace yours for this anyway. It is called a fixed cup because it has no adjustment, not because it should be left in place for the next person to fight with.

If the cotter is the issue make sure whoever helps you is experienced with them, expertise with them can be thin these days and I would want to preserve the crank if you can as well as reuse it if so. They can be tricky, the Raleigh 3 speed fans are the ones to seek out on these as they deal with them all the time and have it figured out.

The Park tools are good and the go to for many. For these Campy or Sugino work much better when push comes to shove IMO, I have some Sugino's that I have had for 45 yrs and like I said, they have never failed me.

The bigger wrench, hammer, etc. can get you into trouble with these as they can apply more power but when they slip as they usually do they take the edge off that you will need to get the job done.

zwickerz

The Velo Orange BB comes to about 115$ after shipping and currency exchange, so its not the option I want to go with considereing if I never buy another french bike its value for this one is a little much.

noglider 

I'm about to do something similar. I'll try keeping the cups and changing the spindle and cranks.

zwickerz

Let me know how it goes! I'm going to give it a shot this weekend.

3alarmer 

...there's an entire section in the 4th edition of Sutherland's Manual on interchangeability and fit for various cups and spindles. Unfortunately no one has a 4th edition any more, and those that do usually can't access an endless stream of cups and spindles, so it tends to be of limited use any more. I'm uncertain why a person here would tell you that the fixed cup needs to come out unless you plan on replacing it with something else like a sealed unit or a different cup. It's a whole lot of work for a perceived benefit of little or negative value if you can't reinstall it tightly enough.

I'm certain it is well intentioned advice, and if you choose to follow it, best wishes for your success.

I don't want to get into some big kerfuffle over the point, and nobody really knows what your approach will be right now. But the idea that removing it is somehow of benefit to some future owner, or even to you, over cleaning it well in place and reinstalling a spindle and clean, re-lubricated bearings has no basis in any "good mechanical practice" routine with which I'm familiar. It's usually a difficult enough job that it is better avoided unless required....which in your case it may or may not be. And believe me, I've removed plenty of them.

3alarmer 

...again, if the only problem you have with the current crank and BB is that bent cotter, drill it out, service what you have, and use it. They work fine (cottered cranks), and l;asted a long time into the square taper era, even though a little more difficult to service and a tiny bit heavier. I presume weight is not an issue for you on an old Peugeot.

The advice about simply cleaning it as best you can and applying some fresh grease, then reassembling also has merit. You have it far enough apart now that you can reach everything you need to reach.

ryansu

I found this article on BB removal to be very helpful with stubborn cups. From a BF members blog btw. Also Sheldon Brown talks about options for swapping to square taper here. See chapter 2 what to do section 8. When all is said and done you might decide the VO bb option @$50 plus shipping and maybe the tool if you don't have them is the least aggravating way to go. YMMV.

bikemig 

This is pretty straightforward. If you want new cups, Amazon sells them cheap. $9 "renewed" and $12 new.

https://www.amazon.com/Action-Bracke...gateway&sr=8-2

You'll have to play around with a spindle and find one that works.

The other option is to find a cotterless spindle that works with the existing UO 8 cups (assuming that they're in decent shape). This is not as crazy as it sounds. Sheldon Brown discusses this somewhere (I can't find where). I tried it on my mid 70s UE 8 (basically a UO 8 that came stock with fenders, rack, lighting system, etc) and I got it to work fine.

PilotFishBob 

Per @bikemig, Sheldon's detailed rundown and size specs on French bicycles, including the bottom bracket area and replacement spindle candidates. I was in there a lot when I started messing with Frenchies. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/velos.html

merziac

Huh, well its a little late on the kerfuffle if you're so certain my view is that much in error. I stated that many disagree and that's fine. You and I know what a challenge this can be.

The reason to do it is the right thing, plain and simple. For you, me and future owners/mechanics that may not have our level of skill and experience so parts and frames retain and preserve their integrity moving forward. It is a basic tenant of "good mechanical practice", remove, clean, thoroughly inspect, repair or replace as necessary, then properly reassemble and torque.

I have been a mechanic/technician all my life, professionally for most of it. ASE and fomoco Senior Master certified for 30 yrs with an AAS degree in Automotive technology, drag racing motorcycles for 40 yrs and bikes all my life.

Anytime somebody asked why we had to take some thing all the way apart that they thought didn't need to be it became a valuable learning experience for them when they found out it was the correct and proper way of doing it and often you find something that would be missed otherwise by short cutting form lack of experience. The full understanding of the task increases the success of all related tasks and builds overall skill.

All that being said I understand the rationale and on your own things it is of course your call. Once you have the experience to do the complete job, you have the basis to make the call, but the skill to do the complete job is invaluable as it means you can do it if necessary when you have to. Its easy to say "you don't have to do that, it's not needed", for you and I it can be ok but for others, if it goes bad they can be in further over their head when it could have been avoided.

I obviously feel strongly about advocating that others in this hobby develop the skill to tackle any and all tasks, it's the right thing, it preserves often rare parts and pieces, saves time and money in the long run and promotes others being able to work on and save many things related to our hobby which benefits all and again builds skill which is usually a good thing.

As I have stated before, I have a foolproof, simple method for removal and installation that has never failed me and has never damaged any frames, cups, tools or flesh, provides more than enough leverage to get them out and in properly tightened without excessive force.

Again, I know it can be a challenging task which is why I feel strongly about it and it really doesn't need to be.

3alarmer 

...this is classic kerfuffle talk. I'm not going to engage init. I got ASE certified in a couple of areas, but fortunately for the world, I found something else to do for a living.

merziac

Sounds good, take care.

Kdogbikes

Good thread. I’ve been tinkering on bikes 10 yrs now and Have this moto GT I completely butchered in an attempt to “restore” a few years ago. Have yet to find a spindle that will work. The crank in this pic is bottomed out so the arms won’t turn. I have yet to be able to get the fixed cup out. Anyways the bike hangs in the vault and one day I’ll get it going.
Shame,to,because the paint part of the project came out great and the bike fits like a glove.

3alarmer 

...if you're willing to spend 50 bucks on that Velo Orange BB unit in (hopefully) the correct spindle length, the absolute, "will remove any fixed cup" (with the addition of some 50/50 ATF-acetone mix) tool is this one (made by Hozan.) We had one for a long time at the co-op here. I finally bought one of my own because that one got so beat up (but it still worked).

On the worst ones, you can get the tool set up on the fixed cup and then clamp one part of the Hozan tool in a bench vise (use the pipe jaws). Then you twist using the frame to break the cup free.

90 bucks and free shipping on Amazon. Cheaper if you can find someone near you who has one, because most people don't need them all that often.