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Still Fuming and attitude towards female riders (maybe?)

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Still Fuming and attitude towards female riders (maybe?)

Old 09-27-19, 09:43 AM
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Fen
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Still Fuming and attitude towards female riders (maybe?)

I went on a group ride a few weekends ago to open a new trail system. I actually prefer to ride solo or with close friends, but I decided to step out of my comfort zone and give it a try. I'm an ok, but not great rider. I prefer the trails I l know well, and these were new, plus they start with a climb (not my best skill). I emailed the ride leader ahead of time to make sure that all skills levels would be welcome. Ride leader say "Yes! We're going to split into a beginner and an advanced group. Please come!" The person I'm planning to go with wakes up with a head cold and decides to stay home, but I decide to go anyway. (Challenge by choice and all, right?) So I get there and see a few people I know. There's three female riders out of the dozen-ish who are there. Myself, a teenager (who I know slightly, our daughters are friends) and an accomplished trail rider (who I also know, she's taken me out a few times to coach me). There's also an older dude on borrowed MTB who mentioned he's primarily a roadie, and this is his first group trail ride. I try to be friendly and make conversation telling him that I am thinking of getting a road bike.


We start. I'm near the back with the teenager, the roadie, and and the sweep (who I know pretty well). We climb and climb. The teenager gets off to walk. The roadie says "OMG! This is so different from road biking!" and gets off to walk. I get off to walk. The sweep (who knows the trials well) is very encouraging and is calling out warnings. (Mud ahead! Rollover to your right! Stream crossing soon! Log bridge! The best line is to the left! Shift! Steep hill! Sharp curve halfway down!) The faster riders stop at an intersection and wait for the slower ones.


We all catch up and decide to break into three groups. I always knew that I was going to go in the slow/beginner/shorter ride group. The fastest group takes off. The middle group has some conversation about who is continuing with them and who is breaking off to loop around and go back to the trailhead. We all ride together for a while. I get in front of a guy I don't know and apologize when I slip in the mud and make him stop behind me. He's super nice "Don't worry, you're fine. My wife won't even get on a mtb."


The middle group goes on and then it's me, the teenager, the roadie, and the sweep. We're all pretty evenly matched, and take turns in the lead. I joke to the sweep that he's never going to take us out again. He laughs and says that's not true. He's having a great time and getting to practice his coaching skills. The roadie asks if the sweep and I are married. We say no, we are friends though, and and he says to me "Oh, I thought maybe you came on the ride because you were married to to the sweep." (As if I wouldn't just be out on my own?)


Then the roadie starts asking me questions. How old am I? How long have I been riding? Suggests that perhaps I would be better off on a road bike "where you can see what's coming up and prepare for it more." Then says "I see that you can get over the hard stuff, then you stop. You need to keep going." Keep in mind that he 1) had the opportunity to leave our group 2) isn't any better than we are. I resist the urge to say "At least I haven't crashed, but I see your leg's a scratched up mess" (that would be uncharitable, I know)


Anyway, perhaps it's just a chip on my shoulder and my own insecurities, but dang....

Last edited by Fen; 09-27-19 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 09-27-19, 11:53 AM
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That's just the way roadies are. I don't think he was trying to be mean, but most likely socially inept. I mean seriously. Who would want to ride on the road with cars getting smothered by exhaust, dress in spandex and pretend to get exercise when just drafting and the only view is another spandexed & chamy diapered booty in front of them.

Pay no mind to the roadies, they're a weird breed.

Some men are going to offer advise assuming you need it, it's not necessarily because you're a woman. I give and receive advise occasionally, here and there. But you may receive a bit more small talk and questions if you're in a new group. Female riders are less common than males, so that could be one reason. A lone female rider among men is even more uncommon in my experience.

But I would certainly speak up if someone says something to you that bothers you. Chances are they didn't want to elicit the reaction they did. Let them know how you interpreted it, if they give you an attitude, just laugh at them & ride on. That'll be enough to shut em up.

An old Mall Rats proverb: Confrontation leads to understanding

Last edited by eshew; 09-27-19 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 09-27-19, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by eshew
That's just the way roadies are. I don't think he was trying to be mean, but most likely socially inept. I mean seriously. Who would want to ride on the road with cars getting smothered by exhaust, dress in spandex and pretend to get exercise when just drafting and the only view is another spandexed & chamy diapered booty in front of them.

Pay no mind to the roadies, they're a weird breed.
I should clarify that it wasn't his first time on a trail. He was just primarily a roadie.

Last edited by Fen; 09-27-19 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 09-27-19, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by eshew
Some men are going to offer advise assuming you need it, it's not necessarily because you're a woman. I give and receive advise occasionally, here and there. But you may receive a bit more small talk and questions if you're in a new group. Female riders are less common than males, so that could be one reason. A lone female rider among men is even more uncommon in my experience.

But I would certainly speak up if someone says something to you that bothers you. Chances are they didn't want to elicit the reaction they did. Let them know how you interpreted it, if they give you an attitude, just laugh at them & ride on. That'll be enough to shut em up.

An old Mall Rats proverb: Confrontation leads to understanding
Funny thing is that we were two males and two females in this group and three of us knew each other. (the mostly-roadie was the new one). I don't mind taking advice while riding, in fact I welcome it. This guy's attitude was just different than I'd encountered before.

Last edited by Fen; 09-27-19 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 09-27-19, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Fen
Funny thing is that we were two males and two females in this group and three of us knew each other. (the mostly-roadie was the new one). I don't mind taking advice on while riding, in fact I welcome it. This guy's attitude was just different than I'd encountered before.
Some people feel they always have to be talking. Its almost like the silence makes them nervous or uncomfortable. I suffer from this when doing tech support calls for customers and there is a lul in the talking while we're waiting for something to reboot, changes to take effect or whatever. Some (not me) like to always tell other folks what or how to do it.

Some guys (and girls) don't realize there tone or the way they are putting things to others. Especially, the socially awkward like myself.

Also, some people just don't click.
I would not let it bother you. OR if it really does, figure out how to table it without being like the offender.

JMHO, YMMV....

No matter what, keep riding.
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Old 09-27-19, 01:30 PM
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Old 09-27-19, 01:31 PM
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So what's the problem? What was the problem?
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Old 09-27-19, 01:41 PM
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It seems like he was man-splaining, and I've never ridden with a MTB group on trails so I could be way off base, but I've felt treated the same way from a roadie in a group ride. The last time I rode with a group, a roadie "leader" explained that if I wanted to "keep up with these guys" I'd need to get some clipless pedals. Then went on and on about how there'd be "a nice bike" to rent if I wanted to ride in a local 60-mile Mayor's ride. He was starting in on how to climb this "big hill" coming up when I had enough and dropped them. That was a couple of years ago, literally my last group ride.

Guess I'm saying, if you wind up riding more or less alone anyway and the "instruction" isn't really appreciated, then there's not a lot of point in the group in the first place.
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Old 09-27-19, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel
So what's the problem? What was the problem?
Ride leader (male Cat 1 podium finisher who I know slightly) assuring me that ride was open to all skill levels and making sure there were multiple routes and guides on newly opened trails = not annoying, inclusive behavior

Sweep/easy level guide (male friend and accomplished rider who built many of these trails and wants to show them off) calling out trail features ahead of time, offering tips/suggestions and laughing with us = not annoying

Faster male rider I cut off by accident blowing off my apology and going around me to catch up with his friends = not annoying

Mostly roadie (older male, roughly same skill level) 1) assuming I was only on ride because I was married to Sweep (why couldn’t I be there because I like to ride and why is it unusual for me to have a platonic opposite sex friend in the local mtb community?) 2) Asking my age (middle, as if that matters) and experience (who cares if ride leader doesn’t) 3) suggesting I might be better off on the road shortly after saying that he found road biking to be easier than this ride and 4) congratulating me on “going over the hard stuff” and offering advice like “now just keep pedaling” = annoying

Last edited by Fen; 09-27-19 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 09-27-19, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fen
Ride leader (male Cat 1 podium finisher who I know slightly) assuring me that ride was open to all skill levels and making sure there were multiple routes and guides on newly opened trails = not annoying, inclusive behavior

Sweep/easy level guide (male friend and accomplished rider who built many of these trails and wants to show them off) calling out trail features ahead of time, offering tips/suggestions and laughing with us = not annoying

Faster male rider I cut off by accident blowing off my apology and going around me to catch up with his friends = not annoying

Mostly roadie (older male, roughly same skill level) 1) assuming I was only on ride because I was married to Sweep (why couldn’t I be there because I like to ride and why is it unusual for me to have a platonic opposite sex friend in the local mtb community?) 2) Asking my age (middle, as if that matters) and experience (who cares if ride leader doesn’t) 3) suggesting I might be better off on the road shortly after saying that he found road biking to be easier than this ride and 4) congratulating me on “going over the hard stuff” and offering advice like “now just keep pedaling” = annoying
Good grief. How petty and inconsequential.

(insert mountain out of a mole hill emoji here)
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Old 09-27-19, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by L8APEXN
Good grief. How petty and inconsequential.

(insert mountain out of a mole hill emoji here)

Who me? Dude, it’s an Internet forum, not life and death. Certainly not keeping me up at night. Nor will it keep me off my bike. (Away from group rides, maybe) Still, I don’t like to be made to feel uncomfortable nor I like it when people are condescending. I was merely wondering if any other female riders in a male dominated sport felt the same, or if any other male riders had seen similar behavior.
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Old 09-27-19, 05:03 PM
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I suggest putting him on your "ignore" list. Keep coming, stay involved with the others. It sounds like, except for him, this is something you like, that does something for you and you add something for the others there. If he keeps coming, he may figure out that you are ignoring him. If he then asks why, you can just point out what he did/said and how you took it. Just maybe he will be ready to hear.

He sounds like another clueless (by choice or ignorance) male. Don't grant him space in your head. That won't help you or hurt him.

Ben
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Old 09-27-19, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton

Guess I'm saying, if you wind up riding more or less alone anyway and the "instruction" isn't really appreciated, then there's not a lot of point in the group in the first place.
More than likely, yes. I don’t mind, but it is nice to have company once in a while.
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Old 09-27-19, 05:44 PM
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He was just making conversation. Some people are just no good at it, that’s all.
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Old 09-27-19, 09:08 PM
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OP...Re-read your posts (maybe out loud)...then see how it sounds to those not there. You felt he had a condescending attitude, and maybe was sexist on top of that. You were there, I wasn't and you are probably right. Women know when they are being belittled. BUT...It ALSO sounds like he could be a guy that was (very awkwardly) hitting on you. His suggestion to ride road bikes may not have been to belittle your mountain experience, but to try and have some common connection with you. Age and the marriage thing...again, trying to assess your availability. And the encouragement...again awkward flirting. Either way it makes for an uncomfortable situation if you are ever around him again. Just some perspective from a guy in the peanut gallery. Take it for what it's worth.
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Old 09-27-19, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jrhoneOC
OP....It ALSO sounds like he could be a guy that was (very awkwardly) hitting on you.
+1
I’ve seen a few guys/situations like that.
Or he was simply one of those people whose ”natural” style of conversation can be kinda grating, for whatever reason. One guy I rode in the same group as this summer was like that. It was as if he always had to (socially) position himself in the group by:
- mentioning a few choice items that are rare - and expensive - about his bike
- mentioning a few choice items that were old and/or cheap on other people’s bikes
- say something about how hard/fast/far he’d ridden since the previous group ride
- and preferably something like if there was any drafting to be done, how he preferred drafting behind women, ”because of the better view ahead”...

Once he’d gotten that out of his system, he’d be ”ok” for the rest of the ride.

Compared to the OP, I had the ”advantage” of seeing this guy go through that routine several times, in bigger groups, making it easy to conclude that it wasn’t anything personal about his remarks.

Although clumsily, it seems like the OP’s guy at least tried to be helpful and encouraging.
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Old 09-27-19, 11:49 PM
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Old 09-28-19, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Fen
Anyway, perhaps it's just a chip on my shoulder and my own insecurities, but dang....
Yeah, you haven't been a single dad, have you.

''Ah, it must be nice for her to be picked up by her dad''... Schools, after school club, gymnastics, parks, supermarket..?!

''Can you tell her mum that...''

You haven't endured sexism like a single dad, seriously. Maybe we men don't shout do loud about it..
(And yes, that sweeping statement is tongue-in-cheek!)
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Old 09-28-19, 04:38 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by jrhoneOC
BUT...It ALSO sounds like he could be a guy that was (very awkwardly) hitting on you.
ok... that’s a whole ‘nother level of “nope!” Seriously, it never dawned on me. Anyway, it is interesting to hear other perspectives.
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Old 09-28-19, 07:11 AM
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My sympathies, anyway.

It's just disheartening to have an activity you enjoy doing lessened by interpersonal relationships. When I find I'm working so hard at the interaction with the people that it detracts from enjoying the ride, I'd much prefer to ride alone. Meet you back at the cars, folks.
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Old 09-28-19, 07:21 AM
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Yep, Hell ... other people ... yadda yadda yadda.
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Old 09-28-19, 11:26 AM
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The best way to get any cyclist offering unasked for advice to shut up is to drop them.
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Old 09-28-19, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Fen
I went on a group ride a few weekends ago to open a new trail system. I actually prefer to ride solo or with close friends, but I decided to step out of my comfort zone and give it a try. I'm an ok, but not great rider. I prefer the trails I l know well, and these were new, plus they start with a climb (not my best skill). I emailed the ride leader ahead of time to make sure that all skills levels would be welcome. Ride leader say "Yes! We're going to split into a beginner and an advanced group. Please come!" The person I'm planning to go with wakes up with a head cold and decides to stay home, but I decide to go anyway. (Challenge by choice and all, right?) So I get there and see a few people I know. There's three female riders out of the dozen-ish who are there. Myself, a teenager (who I know slightly, our daughters are friends) and an accomplished trail rider (who I also know, she's taken me out a few times to coach me). There's also an older dude on borrowed MTB who mentioned he's primarily a roadie, and this is his first group trail ride. I try to be friendly and make conversation telling him that I am thinking of getting a road bike.


We start. I'm near the back with the teenager, the roadie, and and the sweep (who I know pretty well). We climb and climb. The teenager gets off to walk. The roadie says "OMG! This is so different from road biking!" and gets off to walk. I get off to walk. The sweep (who knows the trials well) is very encouraging and is calling out warnings. (Mud ahead! Rollover to your right! Stream crossing soon! Log bridge! The best line is to the left! Shift! Steep hill! Sharp curve halfway down!) The faster riders stop at an intersection and wait for the slower ones.


We all catch up and decide to break into three groups. I always knew that I was going to go in the slow/beginner/shorter ride group. The fastest group takes off. The middle group has some conversation about who is continuing with them and who is breaking off to loop around and go back to the trailhead. We all ride together for a while. I get in front of a guy I don't know and apologize when I slip in the mud and make him stop behind me. He's super nice "Don't worry, you're fine. My wife won't even get on a mtb."


The middle group goes on and then it's me, the teenager, the roadie, and the sweep. We're all pretty evenly matched, and take turns in the lead. I joke to the sweep that he's never going to take us out again. He laughs and says that's not true. He's having a great time and getting to practice his coaching skills. The roadie asks if the sweep and I are married. We say no, we are friends though, and and he says to me "Oh, I thought maybe you came on the ride because you were married to to the sweep." (As if I wouldn't just be out on my own?)


Then the roadie starts asking me questions. How old am I? How long have I been riding? Suggests that perhaps I would be better off on a road bike "where you can see what's coming up and prepare for it more." Then says "I see that you can get over the hard stuff, then you stop. You need to keep going." Keep in mind that he 1) had the opportunity to leave our group 2) isn't any better than we are. I resist the urge to say "At least I haven't crashed, but I see your leg's a scratched up mess" (that would be uncharitable, I know)


Anyway, perhaps it's just a chip on my shoulder and my own insecurities, but dang....
Well I don't know you, so I can't say if you have a chip on your shoulder, but there is a chance you could be overly sensitive. Maybe its a male/female thing, but I found none of that interchange offensive. However, I might agree it could have been considered intrusive to some people. After all, there is an old rule that you should never ask a women her age.

On the other hand, he could have been impressed on your intrepidity and commitment to get out and take on this challenge on your own. In fact, his questions (without being there personally) could have very well been taken as a compliment. It pointed in either direction.

Last edited by KraneXL; 09-28-19 at 01:37 PM. Reason: clarify sentence
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Old 09-28-19, 12:58 PM
  #24  
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It is possible that the roadie was taking a chance on you You don't really need to be bothered that much about it. If you didn't like him, you could have just ignored him. He would have understood (if he is really an adult). We men are hardwired to try our chances in every occasion. I don't really want to get into detail but men and women are so different from each other. I know that the liberal media is claiming otherwise, but that is just their imagination. It is quite normal for inexperienced men and women to fail to decipher each other's advances and intentions.

My suggestion is, when in doubt, just be friendly. But if you think the dude is pushing too hard, just ignore him. Or tell him that you are not interested.
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Old 09-28-19, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick
It is possible that the roadie was taking a chance on you You don't really need to be bothered that much about it. .
I’m not privy to the way men think, but I honestly don’t think it was that. It didn’t even cross my mind that it could be. I am happily married to someone who wasn’t on the ride (but hey, I was wearing gloves so he couldn’t check, I guess.) Honestly though is that even a thing? Why can’t girls and women just go for a bike ride without even having to worry about it?
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