Identification Help.....Wrap Over Seat Stays and A.Duprat Cranks
10-09-19, 01:11 PM
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Identification Help.....Wrap Over Seat Stays and A.Duprat Cranks
The velo gods have been generous lately... I was given a bike by a neighbor who knew I liked old bikes and when I went to fetch it a second was thrown in. The second is a pretty uninteresting (to me anyway) 1980s Raleigh Capri..... but the first is a real curiosity. I'd love to know what it is (or originally was). It's been painted over (thickly, and who knows how many times), head-badge removed (but looks like it had three rivets), and obviously had many parts replaced.
Unfortunately I didn't have time to take decent pictures, or even the cliched garage door shot. Below are some poor ones that I did manage to take. I will try to take better ones sometime soon. I thought at a glance that this might be an old Raleigh, or some 1970s or earlier English bike. I think the lugs and the rear brake bridge made me think English. The dropouts are stamped. I don't recognize the lugs, but perhaps they are a clue. Aside from the wrap over seat stay, the frame isn't too interesting (and it's heavy).
The fact that it's a tripe caught my eye. And the cranks are French, A.Duprat single flutes (pedals French as well, but rough. Lyotards?). I don't recognize the chainrings, especially the curiously drilled outer. The FD is a Suntour SL (early 70s?). Shifters seem to match it. But the RD is French... Simplex, I think a Simplex SX 410 T?
Has a GB stem and the bars much newer looking Sakae drops. Brakes are Weinmann 750 Vainqueur 999 centerpull up front and Weinmann 610 at the back with newer Taiwanese levers.
The front hub is a Shimano, but the rear is a Normandy! Looks like the serial number is 0104462 on the rear dropout. Also came with some cool Huret Luxe wingnuts on the front axle.
So it has loads of character.... or is completely schizophrenic (or both). There are enough French components sprinkled in there that I am beginning to question if it's actually French. Does anyone know if any French bikes back then had that wrap over seat stay and also that arced rear brake bridge? Or does anyone recognize it from the lugs or whatever else?
Opinions and info welcomed warmly! Thanks!
What is this bike?
Looks like the head-badge had three rivets. Raleigh?
Roughly painted wrap-over seat stay
A. Duprat single fluted steel French cranks. I haven't seen these before. Suntour SL front derailleur
Simplex rear derailleur ( SX 410 T ? )
Huret Luxe wingnuts (on the front axel only) and oddly on a Shimano hub
Are these cutout lugs a clue?
Normandy rear hub .... Japanese in front and French in the rear! (spokes look ever so slightly out of tension)
Serial number... anyone recognize the format?
Interesting Lugs
Unfortunately I didn't have time to take decent pictures, or even the cliched garage door shot. Below are some poor ones that I did manage to take. I will try to take better ones sometime soon. I thought at a glance that this might be an old Raleigh, or some 1970s or earlier English bike. I think the lugs and the rear brake bridge made me think English. The dropouts are stamped. I don't recognize the lugs, but perhaps they are a clue. Aside from the wrap over seat stay, the frame isn't too interesting (and it's heavy).
The fact that it's a tripe caught my eye. And the cranks are French, A.Duprat single flutes (pedals French as well, but rough. Lyotards?). I don't recognize the chainrings, especially the curiously drilled outer. The FD is a Suntour SL (early 70s?). Shifters seem to match it. But the RD is French... Simplex, I think a Simplex SX 410 T?
Has a GB stem and the bars much newer looking Sakae drops. Brakes are Weinmann 750 Vainqueur 999 centerpull up front and Weinmann 610 at the back with newer Taiwanese levers.
The front hub is a Shimano, but the rear is a Normandy! Looks like the serial number is 0104462 on the rear dropout. Also came with some cool Huret Luxe wingnuts on the front axle.
So it has loads of character.... or is completely schizophrenic (or both). There are enough French components sprinkled in there that I am beginning to question if it's actually French. Does anyone know if any French bikes back then had that wrap over seat stay and also that arced rear brake bridge? Or does anyone recognize it from the lugs or whatever else?
Opinions and info welcomed warmly! Thanks!
What is this bike?
Looks like the head-badge had three rivets. Raleigh?
Roughly painted wrap-over seat stay
A. Duprat single fluted steel French cranks. I haven't seen these before. Suntour SL front derailleur
Simplex rear derailleur ( SX 410 T ? )
Huret Luxe wingnuts (on the front axel only) and oddly on a Shimano hub
Are these cutout lugs a clue?
Normandy rear hub .... Japanese in front and French in the rear! (spokes look ever so slightly out of tension)
Serial number... anyone recognize the format?
Interesting Lugs
Last edited by CriticalThought; 10-09-19 at 01:17 PM.
10-09-19, 01:34 PM
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Don't know what it is. Sure is an ugly paint job! Fork is bent. I would check it. I don't think it is the angle of the camera.
The brazing of the top head tube lug looks deficient. Rear DO looks stamped. Fork crown is not impressive either. I would not guess this as being top end but toward the lower end. I may need calibration.
I like the wing nuts! The head set look familiar too.
The brazing of the top head tube lug looks deficient. Rear DO looks stamped. Fork crown is not impressive either. I would not guess this as being top end but toward the lower end. I may need calibration.
I like the wing nuts! The head set look familiar too.
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10-09-19, 01:39 PM
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Don't know what it is. Sure is an ugly paint job! Fork is bent. I would check it. I don't think it is the angle of the camera.
The brazing of the top head tube lug looks deficient. Rear DO looks stamped. Fork crown is not impressive either. I would not guess this as being top end but toward the lower end. I may need calibration.
I like the wing nuts! The head set look familiar too.
The brazing of the top head tube lug looks deficient. Rear DO looks stamped. Fork crown is not impressive either. I would not guess this as being top end but toward the lower end. I may need calibration.
I like the wing nuts! The head set look familiar too.
I'm beginning to wonder if it's an early Raleigh Grand Prix. I think the serial number might even work if it's a 1973. Regardless, it's an eyesore all right! (albeit with some cool and funky French parts)
From the 1968 catalog
Last edited by CriticalThought; 10-09-19 at 01:43 PM.
10-09-19, 01:40 PM
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Don't know what it is. Sure is an ugly paint job! Fork is bent. I would check it. I don't think it is the angle of the camera.
The brazing of the top head tube lug looks deficient. Rear DO looks stamped. Fork crown is not impressive either. I would not guess this as being top end but toward the lower end. I may need calibration.
I like the wing nuts! The head set look familiar too.
The brazing of the top head tube lug looks deficient. Rear DO looks stamped. Fork crown is not impressive either. I would not guess this as being top end but toward the lower end. I may need calibration.
I like the wing nuts! The head set look familiar too.
The seat lug and rear cable hanger arc make me think Raleigh or Carlton, but lower end.
10-09-19, 01:53 PM
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Some Raliegh Grand Prix's with that type of wraparound seat stays were built in the Netherlands by Gazelle.
10-09-19, 03:30 PM
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Bent Fork
Definitely a bent fork. I'm not sure what I want to do with this bike. It has some interesting parts, but they're rough. I'm debating fixing it up (stripping the paint, repainting myself, etc.) but not sinking any money into it. If it is a Raleigh Grand Prix, which I suspect more and more, then it would be fun to go through it and get it rideable. From what I've read these forks can be straightened fairly easily, though I don't know if I'd be comfortable with that if it was a higher end bike.
I've seen some in two-tone blue with lined lugs which look really nice. Since it didn't cost me anything might be worthwhile... though I have a ton of projects ahead of it and not much time to devote these days.
I'm still really intrigued by the driveline. Someone seems to have upgraded it at some point. The frame clearance on the small chainring is minuscule!
I've seen some in two-tone blue with lined lugs which look really nice. Since it didn't cost me anything might be worthwhile... though I have a ton of projects ahead of it and not much time to devote these days.
I'm still really intrigued by the driveline. Someone seems to have upgraded it at some point. The frame clearance on the small chainring is minuscule!
10-09-19, 06:43 PM
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Sure looks like a Grand Prix. If so, the bar and stem, and brakes, are probably original. I had a grand Prix with those shifters as well, but I think mine was a later model.
The lugs were a Carlton pattern called Crespera, or something like that. Some Grand Prix frames were made in Holland as was already mentioned, but they were also made at the Carlton plant in Worksop, and at the Raleigh works in Nottingham. The one I had was made in Canada.
Yes, your fork is bent. I would check the frame too.
The lugs were a Carlton pattern called Crespera, or something like that. Some Grand Prix frames were made in Holland as was already mentioned, but they were also made at the Carlton plant in Worksop, and at the Raleigh works in Nottingham. The one I had was made in Canada.
Yes, your fork is bent. I would check the frame too.
10-09-19, 08:01 PM
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