Stadjer

Probably not. Cycling in Flanders is a bit different from the Netherlands but not that much. There's quite a cultural difference in that Americans, at least on BF, make a quite af fuss about riding a bike. Special clothes, which bike to pick for a specific ride, what tyres for the season, what kind of racks and panniers and how to transport the groceries or other purchases. 'Bike fit? It's not a suit'. A bike can be uncomfortably small and too tall, but a standard sized oma will do for any adult. Of course if you spend 500 euros on a brand new bike you want a nice one that feels great, but fitting is not a requirement to ride one. If the tyres will hold air for a while and the wheels are kind of roundish we're ready to go. The basic working is always the same, you adapt to the bike, not the other way around, just like you adapt to what you have to carry. 'Do I hold the 10 liter case of beer while it's on the rear rack or do I balance it on the handlebars?' 'Do I hold the ladder on my shoulder, or let it lean on the handlebar, or maybe it could stand in the pannier?' Those are the choices to make, often while already on the way. It's just a bike, what could possibly go wrong?

I-Like-To-Bike

I wouldn't make generalizations or draw conclusions about how most American bicyclists fuss and obsess over bicycling details, let alone about American culture in general based on the posts from ardent and zealous bicycling enthusiasts who post on BF, anymore than I would make generalizations or draw conclusions about Dutch bicycling, let alone about Dutch culture from the posts from an NL resident who posts on an English language site that caters to American bicycling enthusiast

Rock71

I live in a small rural town in Iowa of about 1500 people and rarely see anyone out on bicycles(not even kids), I bicycle regularly to the store, a lot of times pulling the Burly behind my hybrid and yes those that don't know me often look at me like I could possibly be homeless.... LOL
I also work out of town and know that there are other towns that have way more of a bicycling culture. As cyclists I think part of that comes in promoting cycling?

Stadjer

A cycling culture is general by definition, and I'm not talking about the road cyclists or the zealous enthousiasts, those are easily recognizable as such. I believe I got quite an impression by now and other sources didn't contradict it much.

I'm not judging, I don't mind it. It just seems highly unlikely to me that Flemish women would smile to TS because they are amused he doesn't have the right panniers or racks. That's just not the attitude towards cycling with groceries there.

Colnago Mixte

As corny as it sounds, we have to be "Ambassadors to the Sport", especially in small towns where you're the only bicyclist people ever see. We need all the friends we can get, especially while riding in remote areas where it would take a cop a half hour or more to reach. Don't piss off the locals. "Zey have ways of getting back at you."

Locally, there's a group that rides several times a day on the same route, often during commute times. There are no bike lanes, and the group routinely blow through stop signs. Along that route I see huge goathead patches that look they were deliberately allowed to grow into the bike lanes. I see a lot more rocks and debris than nearly any other road, and there are a higher than usual number of angry drivers on the busier roads of the route.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I don't feel a lot of love for bicyclists when I ride on that road. And after seeing how that group rides, and the times of day they go out, I don't blame people who commute regularly on those same roads for being resentful or even angry. If bike riders regularly, blatantly, and shamelessly held me up for a few minutes on my commute I do every single day, I would be upset too.

I-Like-To-Bike

It seems highly unlikely to me that most Americans, other than road cyclists or zealous enthusiasts [a relative small slice of the bicycling population, but a large slice of BF posters], could define or identify panniers or would even recognize or notice them on a bicycle. Even less would give a darn if their bicycle equipment or technique is "right" [i.e. BF Zealot Approved™] or not.

Maelochs

Based on personal experience, people can tell when bicycle is kitted out seriously .... people notice (and have commented to me or one another or to their kids) when I pull up at a store with panniers, lights, mounted phone (for GPS) on a well-maintained bike. As to whether that affects their thoughts about cyclists, I am sure that is an individual matter.
You want me to be a Brand Ambassador, send my paycheck. otherwise, i am a representative of myself.

Some people will hate me no matter what I do, some people will hate me unless i do things I would never do, dome people will never hate me, and 95 percent of the people won't notice me unless they pass me on the road and will have forgotten me within ten seconds.

I am a member of the human race and a citizen of the cosmos, and as such I think i should be honest, considerate, and tolerant at all times and in all situations ... but not as any kind of "Ambassador" for some sub-group.

Should I be "extra-nice" because I am wearing spandex? Then .. . should I be a richard when i am not on my bike?

Seems to me, good is good and bad is not, no matter whether I am riding, driving, cutting my lawn, watching TV on the couch, whatever. If there is a "right" way to act, there is Always a right way to act. I should always act that way.

Flip Flop Rider

I mean, it's Europe, so yeah having different attitudes toward cycling/riding/bikes is not surprising. Different culture. Most (I think) of the people respect the "hardmen" of cycling. They are viewed as tough guys, and they are (the Tour is harder than any American event imo)

but here cyclists are not respected as tough guys, they are viewed as a nuisance that impedes the almighty automobile

I suspect it will always be that way here

avole

You're getting into shallow waters there. You do know that many Dutch speak and write English better than the natives of that little country on a tiny island? Also, I thought bikeforums catered for all nationalities. Yes, there is an American bias, but it does a pretty good job for all other nationalities, too.

jasnooks

I've never had the reactions that the op speaks of, or maybe I'm just to old to care anymore.
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REDMASTA

Cool story

livedarklions

You're missing the point. It wasn't a put-down of Dutch posters, only a statement that neither US posters nor Dutch posters are going to be typical cyclists in their respective countries. Most people riding bikes in the US wouldn't be caught dead in lycra.

Siu Blue Wind

Oooo what bike is this?

jefnvk

Yep. Im on the "commonality" side. When I lived in Prague, the only significant difference to me was language, money, open intox on the streets. Other than that, life to me wasn't significantly different than the US, despite what my "difference" classmates insisted. In fact there, I learned there was a biggere cultural gap between me and some Americans than me and most Czechs

Eh, you'd come to the same conclusion if you read any car enthuasist forums here too, but in reality for both vehicles on both sides of the pond the majority of folks buy something and think nothing more of it, its simply a tool

jefnvk

I'm proactive. I ride one to avoid DUI, like last nite on $3 pitcher nite

Stadjer

Anyway, the idea that the Flemish would laugh at TS for hanging bags from his handlebars was wrong, and suggests that the Flemish would have their bikes specially prepared for grocery shopping. That idea must come from somewhere.

A difference would make sense too. Up to 2 km any discomfort like holding a bag or box while cycling or ride with cowboy legs because of the bags hanging from the handlebars and limited handling is easy to take. But for longer distances it becomes tiring or even painful. With the fit it's simular, if you do a >5 km or 5 mile commute speed and comfort do matter a lot more, you want a better tool for a longer and harder job. I'm not going to ride 5 km on an oma while holding a case of beer on the rear rack either, I would get a bike that fits me so I can do 20 km/h without sweating and holds the case of beer so I can have both hands free for cycling. But like most people in the Netherlands and Flanders, the grocery store is much closer.

Rock71

I'm confused. I don't see anywhere that someone asked you to be a brand ambassador. An ambassador to a way of life for some, hobby for other and sport for others, yes.
If nothing else promote getting kids off their couches and back on their bikes

Rock71

Hell, I stop at the bar/pub on my bike to keep from getting that DUI. LOL
Actually in Iowa, bars have been strategically placed along the MUP's for that purpose. More bike racks than car spaces. Micro breweries and bikkes go together quite well I think.

Colnago Mixte

California has passed laws that would seem to encourage people who are drunk to ride bikes rather than drive. You can get a DUI, but the fine s "only" $250, and the conviction can't be reported to insurance companies. In Washington state, a cop can't even arrest an intoxicated bicycle rider, they can only take the bike until the person sobers up.

Good trend, I think these laws might save a few lives by keeping people who have been drinking out of their cars. I don't see any downside at all to this, since a drunk person on a bike can really only hurt themselves.

700

I've read of people getting arrested for driving a wheelchair while intoxicated. You telling me you can't get a DUI on a bicycle where you live?

Colnago Mixte

I didn't say that, just that here in California the fine is lower, and a different code section is used. In Washington state, it apparently IS impossible to get a DUI on your bike.

In places like Texas, they probably still give you the electric chair and a $10 million fine for a first time DUI, and make no distinction between driving a 10,000 lb truck vs, a 20 lb bike.

jasnooks

$99 Roadmaster Adventures 700c from Walmart, with a few upgrades.

jon c. 

I think the 'culture' of recreational road riders exists in both Europe and the US. There are certainly Euro riders in kit who care about every last detail. And then there are the utility riders who view bikes as just an every day tool to get from one place to another. That culture exists in the US as well, it's just smaller and less evident than it is in much of the world. But it is still larger than the culture of bike enthusiasts. BF gives a false impression in that only the enthusiasts tend to write on internet forums.

In my small rural town, about 10 miles from the city, there are a few guys who are utility riders and mostly ride back and forth to the small store that serves as a social hub. But we have beautiful roads without much traffic and on Wednesdays and Saturdays we get a lot of road riders who arrive in the area by car from other parts of the city. On those days, you would think the enthusiasts are the dominant part of American cycling. In contrast, when I drive to work through the less affluent parts of the city, I rarely see road riders in kit. Just people going from one place to another who care only that their bicycle functions. A much smaller percentage of the population in the US rides a bike at all, but among those who do the utility riders still vastly outnumber the enthusiasts.

Stadjer

Yes, and people could get out more to socialize. Not necessarily to go binge drinking and cycle home drunk, but enjoy dinner with wine or just have a couple of beers with friends, without worrying about the drive home.

Stadjer

I took that in account. It's not about the road cycling part of BF here, there are subfora like Commuting and R&F too. There are the newbies with questions who aren't enthousiastic enough to stay for long. And there are the Americans amused or even amazed by women riding in heels and dress or people carrying stuff in improvised ways, things like that give me the impression there is a very different attitude towards cycling. Which seems to make sense because for me to there's a tipping point in a distance that makes cycling on a poorly fitting bike with a load of groceries without proper racks, crates or panniers very annoying rather than a minor discomfort I can ignore. It's also very different within Europe. In cycling for transportation Flanders, Denmark and the Netherlands are much bigger than the rest.
It's a shame it's in the less affluent parts.