genec

Right of weight? Amusing pun based on size of vehicle, or misunderstanding of actual term? The actual term is right of way, but indeed I often see motorists projecting "right of weight."

Bekologist

i like it. The pun "right of weight" I mean, NOT being overlooked.

I do think this right of weight causes some cyclist endangerment being categorized here as being 'overlooked'.

I think sometimes the drivers see you and believe that being in a car gives them right of way over a bicyclist.

Nick Bain

3 times in 5 years, and when I mean not seen I mean I could have died 2 out of the three times because the cars were going so fast and this was on semi rural roads.

AlmostTrick

I really can’t recall a true “not seen” incident while on the bike. I won’t say it never happens to me, (it probably has several times) but it is definitely quite rare. One reason it may not stick out in my mind is because as others have reported, often times when it happens an alert cyclist can predict it in time to render it a non-issue.

Steps I take to ‘be seen’ that I feel help:

*Centered lane position as often as possible. Drivers are more likely to look for real traffic here, and treat me as such. In the gutter or on the sidewalk I’m granted little or no right of way.

*High visibility clothing.

*Bright front and rear flashing lights.


In my experience the ‘right of weight’ tactic is more common than actually not being seen. Good list!

Yes. I have good results with this. A few times I felt the need to yell. (no air horn)

seymour514

I am speaking for Robert Eugene White .... unfortunately he is dead. He died Sept 25, 2011 on Highway 113 near Vacaville, California. He was seen by at least three other vehicles who saw his bright green safety vest, his helmet and yellow bike. But that one, the one who killed him, he never saw behind him. A straight stretch of highway at about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, no rain. The driver obviously was not paying attention while he was driving his one ton bullet. Death and a misdemeanor charge. Where is the justice? When we went through Robert's things we found his bike journal that documented his 60 mile a day rides. We found his 10 safety vests that he had in case someone wanted to go riding and did not have a vest. Robert was safety conscious. Everyday is a gift. Ride safely and God be with you.

genec

I think so too... also that our speed is often under estimated.

AlmostTrick

This sad story demonstrates what most, if not all, riders here understand. No matter what you do there is no guarantee that we will be seen. Even if seen, there is no guarantee that a careless or impatient driver won't still take us out. The best we can do is take steps to increase our chances of having yet another uneventful ride, like Robert did. May you and everyone who knew Robert find peace.

degnaw

Without a strobing P7 flashlight, I get overlooked about once a month (granted, I ride mostly in rural areas without much traffic). With one, I have yet to be missed.

That said... in this youtube video (by TheVexatiousLitigant), this guy is running TWO (2) magicshines in flashing mode as well as a high-vis top in broad daylight, and still gets missed.

nelson249

WHAT???!!??? I thought Copenhagen was a cyclist's paradise...

CB HI

That is right Bek, call it a fools game even though it is the most effective way to be seen.

CB HI

Where did Genec claim that he was NOT seen once a week?

The week I rode in San Diego, every driver saw me, even though a couple tried to challenge my right of way. There is a difference you know and Genec lumped all his events into one pot.

DavidW56

I voted "never" because my cycling right now is limited to the few blocks between my house and the park where I run. I have decent lights and an orange jacket with reflector piping. But when I commuted to work on my bike, there were motorists every day who didn't see me, usually looking at traffic when attempting a right turn on red.

hagen2456

Nah, that's Groningen in Holland

Seriously, the situations I'm speaking of aren't in any way life threatening. They happen at slow speeds, and both I (and the drivers) have time to brake.

But we do have psyko-drivers here, too. People blowing right through an intersection at full red, wrong side of the street etc., nearly (and sometimes not only nearly) smashing pedestrians and cyclists. Not least in my neighborhood, where we have a high concentration of desperadoes.

hagen2456

That was my interpretation of his words. Seemed like a reasonable interpretation to me. May seem unreasonable to you, I don't know. *Shrugs*

charly17201

+1

contango 

Very rare for me. It happens once in a while but it's often hard to know whether the problem was that someone didn't see me or misjudged my speed.

When I'm in the car I always like to see how visible other cyclists are from a motorist's perspective. I was recently very reassured when on a walk through one of my local parks that a hi-vis jacket like the one I use in the colder months is visible from an insane distance. I was quite concerned when a cyclist who I thought was reasonably visible all but vanished against a backdrop of a hedge.

In terms of what I do, when some motorists apparently can't see someone the size of a rugby scrum half covered in fluorescent yellow I figure the only thing I can do is assume every other road user is a thundering moron and ride accordingly.

contango 

I think this is probably the case. It's surprising how many folks seem to think of a bicycle as a vehicle that will be doing 10, perhaps 15mph when it could easily be doing 20-25mph and more still in some cases. There's one road near me with a 20mph limit and I'm often aware that even when I'm slightly over 20mph on the bike there's often someone who wants to get past, as if it's somehow a bad thing to be behind a bike (in fairness, if there were large hills approaching I could see them wanting to pass where the road was wide so they weren't stuck behind a slow cyclist up a hill)

Sometimes I wonder how many times a motorist starts a manoeuvre, realises the cyclist is going faster than they thought, but still assumes that a cyclist can stop easily or considers themselves to be committed to their manoeuvre and doesn't stop to think they could just hit the brake and let the bike go by.

FunkyStickman

Absolutely true. There are no guarantees. I was hit by a kid running a red light. I was lit up like Christmas, but all the hi-vis in the world won't save you if the guy isn't looking.

contango 

If they aren't looking or, more worryingly, aren't interested in anyone else. A crook driving a getaway car probably doesn't care if a cyclist is in the crossing, he's coming through at speed anyway.

seymour514

We believe that texting while driving was a factor in the death of our Family member. Texting while driving is against the law. We are praying that there is a thorough investigation to determine if what we fear is true. It should not be a misdemeanor charge. It's the same as drunk driving, you are not in control of your one ton bullet that you are "suppose" to be in control of. This is a huge issue for the safety of anyone around this type of illegal activity.

contango 

Texting while driving would seem to be very hard to conclusively prove. If a text was sent from the driver's phone moments before a crash then it's pretty conclusive evidence although if they had a passenger they could easily claim the passenger sent the text for them. If no text was actually sent I'm not sure how you could ever prove the driver was distracted by writing a text they never actually sent, any more than you could prove they were playing Angry Birds or some such.

I'm sorry for your loss, and hope that justice is done.

rasmith3530

I've had a number of times when I was not seen while riding over the years. I'm also an avid motorcyclist and have visited 44 states over the years. The question always got me, especially after all the daytime lights on laws were passed, how could a car driver not see us. My answer came one day while I was at work. I was twisting wrenches at an Oldsmobile dealer, and behind our shop, there was a track used by freight trains. One sunny summer day, we hear this crash, then the squeal of metal on metal as thousands of tons of iron attempts to come to a stop. Of course we all poured out of the shop to see what had happened. It turned out that two older women had been in this early 1970s Buick Regal (a big car at the time), talking away, and never noticed that a train was in their path or that warning gates were down and lights flashing.

All I could think of was that, if you can't see a moving box car, how would you ever see a motor or bicyclist? Since that day, I've ridden as if every cager had me as a target, and so far, it has helped to keep me alive.

If you think that a fluorescent vest or blinky LEDs are going to keep you alive, my prayers are with you. That is not to say you shouldn't use those things, just don't expect that they will keep you safe. Ride as if you were completely invisible and remember that your couple hundred pounds of man and machine are no match for that three thousand pound bullet with "To whom it may concern" adorned across its grille!

Bekologist

not keep riders SAFE, keep riders SAFER by running daytime visible blinkies, high viz clothing.

I don't think anyone is suggesting total safety or being lulled into a false sense of safety from the use of visibility tools.

I recommend riders use a mirror as a safety tool, and high viz clothing and blinkies as visibility tools that can provide a greater degree of rider safety....

the military requires motorcyclists use traffic safety vests, on or off base, doesn't it? I wonder why? Those motorcyclists fairly POP out of the drab cars they're riding among. It doesn't make those military motorcyclists SAFE, it makes them SAFER.

AlmostTrick

I firmly believe that when wearing hi-vis clothing and sporting powerful flashing lights a cyclist garners more attention than 'just another car', simply because he or she is so out of the ordinary. It kind of forces drivers to take notice, especially if the cyclist is fully taking the lane. At least that's the reaction I almost always get.

noisebeam

Seems to be the case. I've been overlooked when driving an SUV more than I have when driving a bicycle and I motor a lot less than I cycle.