Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Montana & Idaho 2019

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Montana & Idaho 2019

Old 07-15-19, 06:31 AM
  #1  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
Montana & Idaho 2019

Photo album from my two-week trip during the second half of last month:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/105349...57709619080636

Here is the planned route:

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29428535?beta=false

I ended up altering it south of Whitefish. There was a big morning storm, complete with hail. Some of the roads south of Columbia Falls are unpaved and can get messy when even slightly wet, so I stuck to U.S. 93 and MT 35 to rejoin what I had planned. There were also a few other minor deviations from the planned route.

Overnights were:

1. About 7 miles east of St Regis, MT
2. About 9 miles east of Avery, ID
3. Wallace, ID
4. Thompson Falls, MT (Got a motel room for a couple of reasons.)
5. Noxon, MT (Nice city park along the Clark Fork.)
6. Bad Medicine Campground along Bull Lake off of MT 56
7. About 3 miles west of Troy, MT
8 & 9. Pete Creek Campground near Yaak, MT
10. Rexford, MT
11. Whitefish Lake S.P.
12. Wayfayers S.P. in Bigfork, MT
13. Seeley Lake, MT (Motel so I could get an early start on the last day.)

Highlights included: Getting to ride two sections of I-90 westbound that were closed to motor vehicles; the 16 mile (15 unpaved), 3,200'+ climb up Gold Pass out of St. Regis then the incredibly scenic (and nicely paved) descent down to and then along the St. Joe River towards Avery; the former Milwaukee Road ROW from Avery then the Route of the Hiawatha Trail; the herd of elk on Blue Slide Rd. west of Thompson Falls; the Ross Creek Cedars; seeing a bear and a youg-ish bull elk near Yaak; Porcupine Pass on the way to Rexford and my reward of some really great fried chicken there; and the two Montana state parks with special hiker/biker sites with all the trimmings.

Lowlights included: Climbing a couple of miles of the steep part of Thompson Pass without realizing I was in the middle chainring; U.S. 93 between Fortine and Whitefish and missing some turns along the way that would have allowed me to explore some alternatives to that death trap of a highway; some of MT 83 between Bigfork and Seeley Lake.

I had done much of this route in 2017 (The Gold Pass/St. Joe/Avery/Hiawatha sections were new to me. I also overnighted in a couple of new places.) This time the weather was much different. Cooler days and even cooler nights. Some mornings were in the 40s when I hit the road. There were three days with noticeable periods of rain, but nothing biblical, although I did have to pull over twice while descending Gold Pass, once to take cover from a brief period of hail. As you can see from the photos, conditions were often overcast or foggy. 2017 was warm to hot and humid. I don't believe I used my rain gear once. The day I arrived back in Missoula it was 91 degrees by 1 p.m. All things considered, I'll take the cooler temps any day.

Now starting to think about my Pennsylvania tour that I try to take every September. Maybe from Pittsburgh home to Philly again.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 08:47 AM
  #2  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 951 Times in 783 Posts
very pretty areas you went through
but honestly, riding up a climb in the middle chainring, come on, really, really???!! (of course you may have cottoned on to my admonishing you about actually admitting to it)

always enjoy seeing trip stuff from a part of the States that I have never thought of going to, or probably never will, simply from a logistics side of things (same cost and time as going to Europe or wherever, so would prefer the "exotic" )

boy, you wouldnt want to be in the middle of that tunnel and hear the KALANG!!!!! of those doors closing would you?
djb is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 08:48 AM
  #3  
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,538

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3394 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Cool pics!

Did you get a chance to check out the current state of the bike path between Wallace and the Hiawatha?
spinnaker is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 09:53 AM
  #4  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
Originally Posted by djb
very pretty areas you went through
but honestly, riding up a climb in the middle chainring, come on, really, really???!! (of course you may have cottoned on to my admonishing you about actually admitting to it)

boy, you wouldnt want to be in the middle of that tunnel and hear the KALANG!!!!! of those doors closing would you?
Total face palm moment. Thompson Pass is roughly 9.3 miles from the town of Murray. The first 5 or so miles is middle chainring worthy. Very gentle. According to RWGPS, the final 5 miles averages 7.1%. The final 2 average 7.7%. Ruling grade of over 11%.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30438119?beta=false

So there I was, cruising along in the middle chainring. Then it got steep. I could not figure out why I was having such a hard time. I was going so slowly and was all over the road. I don't know what triggered it, but I suddenly realized that I did not remember shifting into the small ring. Looked down at my crank and sure enough....At least the rain hadn't started yet.

As for those doors, it wouldn't make any difference. The tunnel is 1.66 miles long and totally unlit except for the headlights of other riders coming towards you. The unofficial rule is that you have to have 300 lumens. I had 500 and was wishing for a few more. It's about 47 degrees inside. More than a little water was dripping from the ceiling. The tunnel floor had recently been resurfaced with some sort of slurry. The bike got dirty, but not as bad as the bikes with MTB tires. I have a photo on my phone that I will post later.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 10:47 AM
  #5  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
Originally Posted by spinnaker
Did you get a chance to check out the current state of the bike path between Wallace and the Hiawatha?
The Trail of the Cd'A is paved for 7 miles from Wallace to where it ends in Mullan. You will notice the grade up. You then need to do some road riding to get the west slope of the NorPac Trail, which takes you up to Lookout Pass. From there you descend the east slope of NorPac. A little ways after you cross under I-90 and then pass a maintenance shed you make a right onto a dirt road that climbs to the East Portal Trailhead of the Hiawatha. Again this year I did not ride the west slops of NorPac, opting instead for I-90 to Mullan. Skies were looking iffy and I had already spent some 36 miles riding dirt, nearly all up hills. The east slope of NorPac, which I climbed, was worse than two years ago. I had to walk in a couple of places closer to Lookout Pass. It appears the rain and melting snow cascades down through a couple of chutes and washes away much of the road cover, leaving rock heads exposed. The dirt road from NorPac up to East Portal is not bad surface-wise. I suspect it undergoes regular maintenance because it's really the only way to drive to the trailhead from I-90.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30564629?beta=false
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 07-15-19, 11:13 AM
  #6  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
Here is what part of the bike looked like from the Hiawatha Trail. As noted, other bikes looked far worse.

indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 11:21 AM
  #7  
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,538

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3394 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
What was the trail suface like on the Hiawatha Trail? Looks like you have similar width tires to mine. Othere than issues noted, you had no issues?
spinnaker is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 12:07 PM
  #8  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
Originally Posted by spinnaker
What was the trail suface like on the Hiawatha Trail?
37C tires. This is fairly representative of the surface of the trail:



The continuation of the Milwaukee Road ROW to Avery is rougher in places. There are also washboards in places since it's open to motor vehicles. Since I encountered only 3 cars in the 9 miles between Avery and the Pearson Trailhead I rode whatever portion of the road happened to be the smoothest at the moment.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 12:31 PM
  #9  
mev
bicycle tourist
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 2,277

Bikes: Trek 520, Lightfoot Ranger, Trek 4500

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 249 Times in 171 Posts
Nice photos and thank you for posting. It looks like a small chunk of your Eureka/Seeley Lake route was GDMBR but also a majority was other small roads mixed with the main routes. How had you worked out these particular routes?
mev is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 01:09 PM
  #10  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
Originally Posted by mev
Nice photos and thank you for posting. It looks like a small chunk of your Eureka/Seeley Lake route was GDMBR but also a majority was other small roads mixed with the main routes. How had you worked out these particular routes?
You can take the GD route from the Canadian border area a bit north of Eureka to Whitefish, but it's days of riding. Bigfork to Seeley Lake is also on the GD, but I think it's at least two days of riding for mortals.

Much of my routing was developed on my own. Some is part of the Northern Tier route. The section between Yaak and Rexford I learned about not all that long before I headed out there in 2017. I had seen some of the roads on Google Maps and was going to go to Yaak then to Libby and then up MT 37 to Rexford. Maybe a couple of months before that trip I searched "Yaak" on CGOAB and found a report written by a guy who, with a group, had ridden between Rexford and Yaak via Porcupine Pass on the advice of a local they met in Eureka. I was pretty amazed to learn that that entire section is paved. (It's rather remote. At one point I was so far north that I got cell service again from Verizon of Canada. Had not had service in two days. Here I am ripping down the descent and the phone starts alerting me to the text message I had not received.) Because it's more direct than going through Libby it gave me an extra day to spend up there.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 01:27 PM
  #11  
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,538

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3394 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
37C tires. This is fairly representative of the surface of the trail:



The continuation of the Milwaukee Road ROW to Avery is rougher in places. There are also washboards in places since it's open to motor vehicles. Since I encountered only 3 cars in the 9 miles between Avery and the Pearson Trailhead I rode whatever portion of the road happened to be the smoothest at the moment.
Yeah yours are a bit wider than mine. I am currently at 32C. Do you recommend I upgrade to at least 37C? I will be going down hill toward Avery. Sounds like you went uphill?

Which road did you take out of Avery? Looks like you can go either side of the St. Joe?

And I think I might try to arrange a shuttle from Wallace. I think there is someone at the hotel that does it (or at least did).
spinnaker is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 01:57 PM
  #12  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
I would do 37c.

I didn't take a road out of Avery along the St. Joe. Look at my map. I came down the St. Joe into Avery after climbing Gold Pass from St. Regis, MT. Then took the former Milwaukee Road ROW from Avery to the Pearson Trailhead.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 01:58 PM
  #13  
mattbur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NW Pa.
Posts: 241

Bikes: 2018 Specialized Sirrus, 2016 Surly Disc Trucker, 800 MTB for winter use

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
Photo album from my two-week trip during the second half of last month:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/105349...57709619080636

Here is the planned route:

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29428535?beta=false

I ended up altering it south of Whitefish. There was a big morning storm, complete with hail. Some of the roads south of Columbia Falls are unpaved and can get messy when even slightly wet, so I stuck to U.S. 93 and MT 35 to rejoin what I had planned. There were also a few other minor deviations from the planned route.

Overnights were:

1. About 7 miles east of St Regis, MT
2. About 9 miles east of Avery, ID
3. Wallace, ID
4. Thompson Falls, MT (Got a motel room for a couple of reasons.)
5. Noxon, MT (Nice city park along the Clark Fork.)
6. Bad Medicine Campground along Bull Lake off of MT 56
7. About 3 miles west of Troy, MT
8 & 9. Pete Creek Campground near Yaak, MT
10. Rexford, MT
11. Whitefish Lake S.P.
12. Wayfayers S.P. in Bigfork, MT
13. Seeley Lake, MT (Motel so I could get an early start on the last day.)

Highlights included: Getting to ride two sections of I-90 westbound that were closed to motor vehicles; the 16 mile (15 unpaved), 3,200'+ climb up Gold Pass out of St. Regis then the incredibly scenic (and nicely paved) descent down to and then along the St. Joe River towards Avery; the former Milwaukee Road ROW from Avery then the Route of the Hiawatha Trail; the herd of elk on Blue Slide Rd. west of Thompson Falls; the Ross Creek Cedars; seeing a bear and a youg-ish bull elk near Yaak; Porcupine Pass on the way to Rexford and my reward of some really great fried chicken there; and the two Montana state parks with special hiker/biker sites with all the trimmings.

Lowlights included: Climbing a couple of miles of the steep part of Thompson Pass without realizing I was in the middle chainring; U.S. 93 between Fortine and Whitefish and missing some turns along the way that would have allowed me to explore some alternatives to that death trap of a highway; some of MT 83 between Bigfork and Seeley Lake.

I had done much of this route in 2017 (The Gold Pass/St. Joe/Avery/Hiawatha sections were new to me. I also overnighted in a couple of new places.) This time the weather was much different. Cooler days and even cooler nights. Some mornings were in the 40s when I hit the road. There were three days with noticeable periods of rain, but nothing biblical, although I did have to pull over twice while descending Gold Pass, once to take cover from a brief period of hail. As you can see from the photos, conditions were often overcast or foggy. 2017 was warm to hot and humid. I don't believe I used my rain gear once. The day I arrived back in Missoula it was 91 degrees by 1 p.m. All things considered, I'll take the cooler temps any day.

Now starting to think about my Pennsylvania tour that I try to take every September. Maybe from Pittsburgh home to Philly again.


Climbing a couple of miles of the steep part of Thompson Pass without realizing I was in the middle chainring; WAY too funny.

Great pics and and nice trip report. You do some incredible trips.

Tony
mattbur is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 05:34 PM
  #14  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 951 Times in 783 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
Here is what part of the bike looked like from the Hiawatha Trail. As noted, other bikes looked far worse.
get thee to a nunnery, specifically one that also sells fenders!
djb is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 05:40 PM
  #15  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 951 Times in 783 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
Total face palm moment. Thompson Pass is roughly 9.3 miles from the town of Murray. The first 5 or so miles is middle chainring worthy. Very gentle. According to RWGPS, the final 5 miles averages 7.1%. The final 2 average 7.7%. Ruling grade of over 11%.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30438119?beta=false

So there I was, cruising along in the middle chainring. Then it got steep. I could not figure out why I was having such a hard time. I was going so slowly and was all over the road. I don't know what triggered it, but I suddenly realized that I did not remember shifting into the small ring. Looked down at my crank and sure enough....At least the rain hadn't started yet.

As for those doors, it wouldn't make any difference. The tunnel is 1.66 miles long and totally unlit except for the headlights of other riders coming towards you. The unofficial rule is that you have to have 300 lumens. I had 500 and was wishing for a few more. It's about 47 degrees inside. More than a little water was dripping from the ceiling. The tunnel floor had recently been resurfaced with some sort of slurry. The bike got dirty, but not as bad as the bikes with MTB tires. I have a photo on my phone that I will post later.
heck, all of us have done dumbass stuff. I personally have all kinds of dumb "busting stuff while doing mechanical stuff" on top of the dumbass riding stuff too.
hey , thats life.

2.5km long tunnel, thats pretty long. and there would be no light at all would there? Ive ridden at midnight in the country once after getting off a train, no moon, and had to ride at walking speed often as I could only just just make out the edge of the road--and I had really good dark eyesight back then as I spent most of my time in a literal darkroom, had for years, so had very good eyesight and spatial awareness from working in total darkness often, all by feel.
So I can imagine how weird that would be. If you didnt have a light, you'd have to walk I guess.
djb is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 05:18 AM
  #16  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
Originally Posted by djb
2.5km long tunnel, thats pretty long. and there would be no light at all would there?
No light. I've ridden the abandon stretch of PA Turnpike. It's now an unofficial bike trail. There are two unlit tunnels. (One of the portals was a filming location for the film "The Road", starring Viggo Mortensen.) The eastern most tunnel is over a mile long. There is a crown near the east portal, so you literally cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel until you approach that end. Someone gave me good advice: Follow the faint median stripe.

indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 06:34 AM
  #17  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 951 Times in 783 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
No light. I've ridden the abandon stretch of PA Turnpike. It's now an unofficial bike trail. There are two unlit tunnels. (One of the portals was a filming location for the film "The Road", starring Viggo Mortensen.) The eastern most tunnel is over a mile long. There is a crown near the east portal, so you literally cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel until you approach that end. Someone gave me good advice: Follow the faint median stripe.
yes, I remember you describing this tunnel in the past.

this topic makes me think of an interesting radio piece I heard once about blind people using echolocation, clicking from their mouth and listening to the bounce back, to be able to form an image in their head of where walls are, parked cars in an indoor parking lot etc.

so if going through this tunnel or any dark tunnel, one could walk and probably being able to follow the wall and sense /keep the wall beside you as a guide in some way or another, worst case scenario if you had no light.
I once went to one of those "completely dark restaurants" with blind waiters, and found I adapted very quickly compared to my friends and family, but again, thats because of doing decades of darkroom work and working spatially in my head of where things are and being methodical.
djb is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 07:39 AM
  #18  
indyfabz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,045
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times in 7,219 Posts
One sight I forgot to mention was a guy driving through the center of Troy, MT, with a lynx in the back of his pickup truck. It was leashed and sitting up tall on his tool chest. Wish I could have gotten a photo.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 08:02 AM
  #19  
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,538

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3394 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
One sight I forgot to mention was a guy driving through the center of Troy, MT, with a lynx in the back of his pickup truck. It was leashed and sitting up tall on his tool chest. Wish I could have gotten a photo.
Here ya go. I did not realize they were small enough to get in the back of a pickup.

spinnaker is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 08:05 AM
  #20  
alan s 
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,977
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1496 Post(s)
Liked 189 Times in 128 Posts
Looks like a beautiful area. I’ve only ever driven through the dry parts of Montana and Idaho. Nothing like the area you rode. Nice photos.
alan s is offline  
Old 07-16-19, 07:52 PM
  #21  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 951 Times in 783 Posts
Originally Posted by spinnaker
Here ya go. I did not realize they were small enough to get in the back of a pickup.
Funny guy.
But man those 80s cars were crappy cars. I had the Ford escort version, late 80s , and it was a particularly crappy car. Horrible standard transmission with seemingly yards of shifter play, so bad you couldn't rely on visually knowing what gear you were in, horrible suspension, and just a cheapo sloppy car that while used, was way sloppier than other old cars I had. Made my next car, a similarly old Colt, feel like a Ferrari for handling.

Good joke though.
djb is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
spiritedcyclist
General Cycling Discussion
1
05-06-19 12:09 PM
spinnaker
Touring
6
04-30-18 07:47 AM
spinnaker
Touring
5
07-21-16 06:08 AM
indyfabz
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
10
09-23-14 11:27 AM
JHolway
Touring
15
10-21-12 07:27 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.