shuru421

Anyone know the quality of these guys? Are these high grade like Shimano Dura Ace or lower?

Wileyone 

High end. Right up there with Suntour.

Salamandrine 

Top of the line racing freewheel. Believe it or not, at the time they were introduced they were considered higher grade than dura ace, which was then not highly regarded. They were nice and quiet, which was nice. IIRC there's still one on my Masi.

shuru421

So how in the world do you service these? These have a lock ring type of look to them (the first cog), semi-covering the 2 holes you usually use a pedal dust cap remover to clockwise unloosen which then frees the body of the freewheel from the cassette themselves.

top506

You unscrew the first cog (the second generally comes along with it) and proceed normally.
I learned more about these that I cared to while building up a 13/15/17/19/21/24 Ultra-spaced block for my Mirella.

Top

CV-6 

You can do an ultra spacing on a CX?

shuru421

So normal routine with a chain whip im assuming (lefty loosey) to get to the freewheel body?

Chombi

One might encounter CX'S with problems from new once in a while, like one I bought NOS that turned out to have a knock on it when I installed and freewheeling on a frame. Turned out to be a flaw on the core body, near the pawl mechanism, which was hitting the ratchet serrations on the outer body. Had to tear down the FW completely to get at the offending area with my Dremel to knock the high spot down. I've heard of a few similar cases out there with what sounds to be the same problem.
Another thing I noticed about my Regina FWs is the outer locking cog is really a bear to break loose. It always feels like I'm about to bust a rib or something inside me whenever I take off the outer cog with my chain whips. They are the only FWs I own that I had actually broken chains on chain whips on! Seems like enough in this forum seems to have had similar experience with their Reginas......
Interesting that I never had the same problems with all my Maillard and Spidel FWs.

pastorbobnlnh 

Having worked on 100s of freewheels, if nine different six speed brands/models were lined up, and all had the same tooth counts on their sprockets, and were either all NOS or showing equal wear and cleanliness, here's what I'd choose in this order:

1. Dura Ace
2. Shimano 600
3. Suntour Winner Pro
4. Suntour Winner
5. Suntour ProCompe
6. Shimano
7. Sachs/Maillard
8. Suntour Perfect
9. Regina CX, CX-S, BX

In actuality, the Shimano, Sachs/Maillard and Perfect would all tie, and all would be significantly ahead of any Regina. Why? Because the internal manufacturing on the Reginas was really poor compared to the other brands. I often run across pawls and ratchet teeth on Reginas which show significant wear, chips, groves, gouges, etc. It is very rare to to see this on other brands.

If I were choosing a 7 speed freewheel. Sachs Aris would be at the top of the list.

top506

Yep. As others have noted, it can take some doing.


Yep. AFAIK, they can be had with either spacing. @pastorbobnlnh will correct me if I'm wrong.
Mine lives on a 120mm spaced Campy Record hub.

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old's'cool

Very informative post Bob!
How might your ordering look if you factored in availability/interchangeability of cogs?

Salamandrine 

I can understand this opinion, but only for freewheels after the mid 80s, when 7400 came out. Shimano freewheels prior to this were junk (in my opinion and experience). Afterward they were the best, but it was only 5-6 years before they were completely phased out in favor of freehubs.

Suntour winner and pro compe, sure. Those were good. CX would occasionally have problems, though I never had an issue with one. The Regina Oros were more reliable.

One possible issue being overlooked is that Reginas were typically on racing bicycles that often saw 15000 miles a year, while suntours and shimanos (prior to 7400) were typically on recreational bikes that might see 500.

Road Fan

Another point is that when the Oro was a big piece of the market, the main competitors were French - Maillard, M. M. Atom, and low- to high end versions of these brands. There were also early brands - the history would be interesting.

My recollections on my bikes is that the Reginas shifted decently and continued to do so for "a while." French ones did not shift well at the outset, in my experience. Threading had nothing to do with it.

Another thing is that certain freewheels had preference for certain chains. I don't remember the rules, but they were there.

These were all pre-indexing, so they did not at that time compete with modern tooth designs, such as hyperglide or Sachs ARIS. I would take a Sachs over nearly any square-tooth sprocket.

look171

I am not sure about the othere brands, but I had a Oro and CX and could not break them. I was doing about 300 hard miles a week and was not that nice to my equip. After that was the ultra 6 and 7 spd Suntour freewheel. Those were really, really good freewheel. Just don't buy the Ti freewheel or the Regina America. I broke two of those ti freewheel within one season just training and racing on them. Two, not one, so I was a little bumped given that they cost lots-o-money. Not sure if they still make them today or the ones you buy off ebay are NOS? Those old ones are still on my bike, but it doesn't get ridden more then once every two or three years.

Dave Mayer

I had a Regina CX S(?) 7-speed freewheel on my 1986 Pinarello Montello. This was a top of the line bike, so this must have been a premium freewheel. However, the Campagnolo Syncro 1 shifters and this freewheel and the Regina chain were so hopeless at actual shifting, that they were unceremoniously stripped off the bike within weeks.

My votes for the best 7-speed vintage freewheels:

• Dura-Ace
• Sante (same as Dura-Ace with chromed cogs)
• Suntour Winner Pro
• Sachs

With Dura-Ace being the best in terms of construction, materials and design. You can upgrade the Dura-Ace freewheel by installing Hyperglide cogs from a more modern Shimano freewheel. The modern cogs do not have the super-hard steel found in the original freewheels, but the Hyperglide shift features sure make shifting smoother.

Sachs freewheels were well designed, and shift the best of the vintage bunch, but they used soft steel in the cogs, and I've worn these out much faster than the Dura-Ace cogs.

Salamandrine 

Syncro was terrible, but that's kind of a different issue. It depends what era you are talking about. If you want a campy shift system that indexed properly, you need to fast forward at least a decade past the introduction of syncro.

In the friction shift era, oro freewheels would last like 10k miles if kept clean. Others would not. This was an issue for high mileage types. I remember those cyclo-pans modular freewheels were pretty good too. I thought it was a novelty at first, but they were actually very good quality.

noglider 

Pastor Bob, SunTour Perfect and SunTour ProCompe were identical except for the color of the cogs, so they should be tied for the same rank in your chart.

look171

Maybe I missed something about shifting? I ran CX with Suntour chain or the other way around and have never an issue with shifting. This was pre indexed. I really didn't missed shifts, almost never so I have no idea what people are talking about. I knew precisely how much to move or pulled that lever depending on which gear I was in. Maybe people are too used to indexed or modern shifting?

shuru421

Wait, so these freewheels can be taken apart cog for cog? I thought these were pretty much 1 unit?

Also, do you happen to know if the Dura-Ace 7400 happened to be the Hyperglide model cogs?

pastorbobnlnh 

Tom, I was speaking strictly about the internal build of the freewheel, i.e. comparing what I've seen on the inside of Regina CXs with other models. Reading the responses I see that most people are making comparisons on riding and shifting performance.

The biggest difference which sets a ProCompe apart from a Perfect is the degree to which the internals are machined. There could also be a difference in the type of steel used, but I am uncertain about this later point. ProCompe bearing races are highly polished to a precise finish, on a par with the 5 speed Dura Ace bodies of the same era. Also, the ratchet teeth look sharper and more precise. Finally, the bearings appear to be a higher grade. The rest of the differences are merely cosmetic, but the internal differences are significant.

Sometimes a little bit of Dremil grinding is required on a modern HG sprocket in order to make it fit on the older UG bodies. One of the tabs is just a bit different/larger on the HG, but a Dremil can remedy this issue in a minute or less. The use of the original UG small threaded sprocket is still needed in order to secure the set.

I built a hybrid UG/HG freewheel for @rccardr to use on the Cino 'Eroica ride in Montana this past September. FWIIW, the same can be done with HG cassette sprockets on a UG freehub.

Dave Mayer

Heh: you're making me feel old. I remember when shops would have a cog-board where you could customize your freewheel with different cogs, and replace worn ones. Of course this board was specific to each manufacturer, so that there was a Regina board and a Atom board, and later a Suntour board etc.

But then I was working at the shop last week and a young (and good) mechanic expressed surprise when seeing Simplex rear derailleur. Never heard of Simplex. Yikes: that made me feel old.

Enough rambling... yes, Dura-Ace 7400 can be disassembled down to the individual cogs. For me, freewheels are disposable items, except for the few freewheels I listed in my earlier post here. These are very high-quality units that were made to last.

The Dura-Ace freewheels had Uniglide cogs. The largest 5 (of 7) cogs can be replaced with Hyperglide cogs from a more recent Shimano freewheel. This will take some scavenging, some unwinding, and a few minutes of grinding.

But well worth it. Best freewheels ever.

noglider 

What was the Regina model that preceded the CX? It had a long run. A cow-orker of mine figured all the different cog types and positions and made his own board for building and rebuilding them. There was no manual for him to work from. It was a versatile system, but it worked best when you knew it well.

Pastor Bob I didn't know that about the differences. Thank you.

Salamandrine 

Regina Oro.

The LBS where I worked had an official Regina board, a Suntour board, and a Shimano board. I think this was pretty typical. Maybe a Peugeot shop would have had Frenchie stuff. We did have some Cyclo and Atom (etc) parts in the parts drawers.

look171

I am curious. where's the shop? There aren't too many old shops around and I used to know most to them in the LA basin

calhob29

I find myself needing a freewheel to fit 126 spacing. I have a straight block CXS 7 spd and a 13-22 CX 6 speed. Anyone know if cogs from a 6 spd CX will fit on a CXS body? ie, are they the same width? I'd really rather go with 7 speed but I want the 22 for hills