chas58

I agree, it is a PITA. But to be fair, everyone in the $4000+ price range has stuff like that. Its just that Canon gives you a $4000 bike for $2000. I wanted to get a used Specialized, but had to buy specialized only wheels. Trek, Specialized, Cannondale all do that kind of stuff - and it hurts when they do it on all their bikes. Really, its been an issue with the industry as a whole forever, and it just getting worse as standards splinter.

Just like the old engineering saying: "My implementation of standards is better than your implementation, and i have the customizations to prove it!"

But Canyon have plenty of mainstream builds and parts in their non high end bikes. You can have it either way.

redlude97

What $2000 canyon gives you as much as a $4000 bike from another big brand? $2000 buys you an aluminum grail or a last gen 105 CF grail

chas58

my bike (inflite) is currently $2000 - its on sale ;-), and the equivalent specialized I was shopping it against (Crux) was about $5000. OPEN UP is about $6000 (actually, to get the comparable fame, the Open frame costs $4500). Not many gravelish bikes in the 7.5kg weight range without spending some big bucks. Its probably more accurate to say the $3000 canyons compare to $5000 bikes. Their road and mountain bikes are pretty nice deals too.

You may not always save $2-3000, and not everyone needs a ~950g gravel frame, but they can be pretty price competitive.

gus6464

Comparing a clearance bike to a current year one makes no sense. My buddy got a Hightower LT 2018 on clearance with XO1 and Fox Factory front and rear for $3200. You won't ever get a clearance deal from Canyon that good. It even included the $2000 Reserve carbon wheels too.

ridethetown

So, in bringing this decision near its (il)logical conclusion [drum roll, please] - I'm close to settling on an option that brings neither CF nor hydraulics: The All City Space Horse.

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but like what I see so far - i.e., durable frame, functional and extremely upgradeable components, and plenty of room in the budget for all the necessary tweaks and add-ons. The main driving factor here is economics - at $1500 complete, I can add a set of 650b wheels, 650x47 knobbies, buy pedals, swap out bars and saddle, install the TRP HY/RD conversion, dropper post, and still have some cash left over for lunch. Having really thought about how I'm going to be using the bike, the idea of CF was not only excessive, but just plain unnecessary.

I've read their frames run big, but looking at the geometry of the 58, it seems pretty standard (58x57, 72 deg. head tube angle, 72.5 seat angle). Looks like only the smaller sizes are stretched. Anyone out there 6'0" - 6'1" with a 34-35 inch inseam on a Space Horse?

shoota 

Wow. That's pretty much the opposite of everything you listed in your OP as must-haves.

Why not just find a used bike or frameset and build it up they way you like instead buying a new bike and replacing everything? That doesn't make financial sense to me.

ridethetown

mstateglfr 

Given all the changes, why not just by a frameset? they are something like $600.

There are also lots of steel framesets similar to this- black mountain cycles MCD, fairlight secan, all city cosmic stallion, etc. Some with a steel fork and some with carbon.
Enjoy it, whatever you do. I love seeing steel frames being chosen!

gus6464

So spend $1500 on a bike to only gut everything and use a $500 frame?

Franco Grimes Carbon Rival 1 HRD
https://francobicycles.com/pages/grimes-carbon
$2450 for all you want.

ridethetown

That's a very nice spec for the price, thanks for sharing. I'd never heard of Franco but am now looking into them. Their steel is beautiful also, but $$$.

I really wouldn't be gutting everything on the A/C - just the brakes and adding a set of wheels for versatility. I have my handlebar and saddle preferences so those are a given on any build. I could build up the A/C frameset on 105 hydraulic, EA70 650b's, and decent contact points for around $2200. I'd spend about $2k if I buy the complete, add a set of wheels and upgrade the brakes. Doing the math, the 105 build is the better deal and more gratifying.

gus6464

The new Tamland is Reynolds 631 and full rival 1 hydro for $1900 on Corp discount. I'd take that over the all-city every day of the week.

https://www.raleighusa.com/tamland-2-r142

shoota 

Nice color too. I got more compliments on my bone stock Tamland 1 than any other bike I've ever owned.

chas58

Wow, that is an about face. But steel is nice - just make sure to get hydro.

(The carbon Tamland was about $1600 this time last year - it was hard not to pull the trigger on that bike!)

shoota 

Carbon Tamland?? You mean Roker?

Chi_Z

looks good until you feel the 24lb weight

mstateglfr 

meh.
I'm not measurable faster on a 24# bike than a 21# bike. How I feel that day has more to do with my speed than 3# of bike.
and the difference between a 21# bike and a 19# bike is simply not noticable to me. Geometry makes more of a difference in how a bike feels than 2#.

given frame size, I'll never have a sub 20# bike, but that's perhaps also because it isnt appealing to me. That isnt a primary focus of mine.

Instead of weight difference, I would think geometey difference, component difference, and intended use/purpose would be more important factors.

but hey, that's coming from my view where geometey and fit trumps 1300g.

Rides4Beer

I'm in the process of researching a gravel/all around bike, and have the same requirements, carbon, hyd, 105+ groupset. I'm definitely liking Canyon, the Grail CF 7.0 would be about $2800 with shipping/tax, I have a hard time spending that much on a bike (even though the wife already told me to do it, she actually said get the 8.0 lol).

Found this on Merlin, Dutch brand, their other bikes get good reviews, but can't find any reviews for the CXD. $1800 with shipping to the US, 18.5lbs, carbon & Ultegra. It's billed as Cyclocross, but looks like it would be good for what I want to do, might want a lil more gear for the road, but can swap the big ring. Can't find any info about max tire size, or even what size it comes with (looks like those tires only come in 33 or 35).

Edit - Found a dutch review, comes with 33mm tires and can fit up to 40mm. Review was positive, said it's light, fast and handles well.

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...19-127421.html

chas58

Well, if you have the wife’s blessing!

I ponied up for a nice Canyon. I’m so glad I did – its an amazing ride – really a standout machine. With a weight of about 17 lb, stiffness in the right places and compliance in the right places, it is amazing. I was shocked at all of the PRs and KOMs I suddenly got after purchasing the bike.

If you ride a lot (3+ times a week), and have good power – get yourself a nice bike – especially if your wife says go! If your more of a casual or occasional rider, something like the Merlin might fit you better.

As for the weight comment – the acceleration on a light racy bike (Specialized Crux) was about 50% faster for me than on a 25# steel backpacking bike (specialized Sequoia). The Sequoia was a super nice ride, maybe the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. But I’m not going to set any records sprinting or climbing with it. It (obviously) has different design goals. On the other hand, I'm not noticeably faster commuting to work on a "race" bike. It all depends what you mean by "faster".

Rides4Beer

Right?? Hard to argue when she says go for it.

I'm new to cycling (about six months now, road only), but as an ultra runner, I started with a strong engine. I'm averaging about 180mpw, and have no problems riding with the 20mph+ A group rides. I like the idea of gravel riding, offroad, but still fast. I regularly pass mountain bikers when running on the trails, and that doesn't look like any fun to me (no offense to mtn bikers). Looking for a bike that I can take on gravel and hard pack, but still go fast on the road. I'll probably still ride more road than gravel, but I do agree that for my power/mileage, I need a quality bike. (Yes, I'm already eyeing the Ultimate for a road upgrade for next year lol)

Just read your review of your Inflite, I've been looking over the geometry for the Grail and can't figure out if I would need a Medium or Large, I'm 6'. The stack and reach measurements from my road bike fit indicate that a medium would work, but if a large would work, they have leftover Grail 7.0s for $2000 (only L tho).

I know the hover bar is very polarizing, but I actually like it, and it's gotten good performance reviews.

86az135i

+1

86az135i

I was in the same boat wanted mostly road but better hardpack ability then my old 93 Cannondale. Hence why I got a cyclocross. Similar geometry and really it's maybe only half a mile slower with 38mm tires. And I run tubeless and don't have to worry about flats which is a huge plus.

WhyFi

One of my bikes, the 2018 Domane Gravel, came in at $2500 with mostly 105 but Ultegra-level levers (RS685). At MSRP, I think that they were a good value, but I still see them on the LBS sales floor occasionally. If it's a bike that would be interesting to you, it might be worth calling a Trek dealer or two in your area - I would expect any still remaining would go for under $2k.

edited to add: since this is in the Gravel subforum, it should be noted that the Domane Gravel only clears 35mm tires. I understand that's a deal-breaker to some.

mstateglfr 

Did i miss a geometry chart for the bike? I looked on Merlin(less than nothing) and the brand's site(nothing).
Really interesting option.

shoota 

It's right there on Merlin's page. https://www.sensabikes.com/media/pdf...ia_cxd_geo.pdf

Man that's a good deal, and the geo looks spot on CX. I bet it flies.

Rides4Beer

That's what I was thinking. Would the max 40mm tire be an issue tho? Was talking to one of the guys on the group ride tonight and he said he likes be able to run a 45 around here.