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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 10-27-17, 05:10 PM
  #1726  
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After doing a few fondos at the end of the summer my mindset changed about them. They aren't as competitive as races, but they are definitely still fun and have a pointy end that allows riders to ride together and "race." A lot of them have timed sections or specific strava segments that are setup for just the event. Makes for a good, fun time! Cycling is supposed to be a social sport after all.

Someone told me at the first fondo I ever did. "Anytime two people get together to ride bikes, it's a race." Struck a chord and changed my opinion the events a whole.
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Old 10-27-17, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
Someone told me at the first fondo I ever did. "Anytime two people get together to ride bikes, it's a race."
Without knowing more about the person and the conversation leading to this comment, it strikes me as a little aggressive. My first thought was "wow this guy's an *******".

Does he mean any time two reasonably fit people riding road bikes together? What about a mentorship or teaching situation? Or mountain biking? I have lesser fit MTB friends that I ride with where we certainly aren't racing each other. With road teammates on the trails it might be a little different psychologically, but there is a continuum between Bauge and Kenny lining up for a match sprint and a father removing the training wheels from his son (or daughter's) bike.

The fondo lies somewhere in between of course.
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Old 10-27-17, 05:50 PM
  #1728  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
Someone told me at the first fondo I ever did. "Anytime two people get together to ride bikes, it's a race." Struck a chord and changed my opinion the events a whole.
This basically applies to anything that moves. I read somewhere "the first car race ever was the first time there were two cars in the same place at the same time."

It could have been a quote paying homage to that idea.
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Old 10-27-17, 06:48 PM
  #1729  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
...They aren't as competitive as races...
It depends.
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Old 10-27-17, 07:31 PM
  #1730  
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Without knowing more about the person and the conversation leading to this comment, it strikes me as a little aggressive. My first thought was "wow this guy's an *******".
you've honestly never heard this before?

i hear it many times a season. someone usually thinks it is particularly witty (it IS, the first time you hear it). i bet if you follow the guy who says it around you'd find he works it into nearly every ride.

it mainly applies to stuff like rolling up on a rider off in the distance -- any rider, even a commuter -- and upping your pace to catch them. stuff like that.
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Old 10-27-17, 07:33 PM
  #1731  
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Originally Posted by Doge
If you like Fondos - of the many are pretty fit type do the Mike Nosco ride.
There will be some 20-30 very elite riders out there, and some 5-10 ex-TdF pros (mostly ex-dopers, except Bob Roll of course).
Mike Nosco Memorial Bicycle Ride
i've been toying with that, but i'm not sure i'll be in the area on that specific day. i love riding all those roads and will do so anyway.

if they are running a fondo on roads that one would normally ride (on that day), does that make one an *ss?

(i get the purpose of the Nosco ride, and friends out there have really talked it up, but that stuff is a normal loop out there.)
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Old 10-27-17, 07:34 PM
  #1732  
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Originally Posted by Doge
It depends.
+1.

again, here we are with the hierarchy and generalizations.
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Old 10-27-17, 07:36 PM
  #1733  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
if they are running a fondo on roads that one would normally ride (on that day), does that make one an *ss?
Yes.
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Old 10-27-17, 09:54 PM
  #1734  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider

if they are running a fondo on roads that one would normally ride (on that day), does that make one an *ss?
An ass? No, not if you're not using their support without paying for it. I've been on the road during events, sometimes by design and sometimes by coincidence, and it can be fun, especially if I get to ride with friends for while.
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Old 10-27-17, 10:33 PM
  #1735  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
...They aren't as competitive as races...
Quoting you again. I am talking about the top places/winning. Search these for fun. But when you put 1K+ riders out there - it is competitive.

The most prestigious single day race to win in the OC is likely Rogers Cup. It is a group ride/race. The talent there typically exceeds other single day rides.

Few would say anything in SoCal is as hard as the Belgium Waffle Ride.

Things change of course, but back to single day races (not the ToC) in SoCal, The Baja races were a real big deal. They would be won by the top SoCal racers who would skip a race to do the Fondo (they were not called that then). Tecate-Ensenada, Rosarito-Ensenada, Mexicali-San Felipe all in certain years were - difficult, and fast and everyone was there. That was then.
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Old 10-27-17, 10:39 PM
  #1736  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
The road scene here is dying. Cross is booming.
everyone says this, but: how many road/crit races are there per year, vs how many cx races?

if there were only 10 road/crit races per year, i bet the fields would be packed.
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Old 10-27-17, 10:53 PM
  #1737  
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Originally Posted by mattm
everyone says this, but: how many road/crit races are there per year, vs how many cx races?

if there were only 10 road/crit races per year, i bet the fields would be packed.
In CO...more cross than road/crit if you remove pro and HC and USAC programs.

34+ (and some show up under road) cross in 2017
https://www.usacycling.org/events/st...7&rrfilter=all


Hard counting because many are camps and meetings, but fewer RR and crit days for non-pros than cross it seems. Primal Palooza shows as a RR, it is a cross race (with a soul).

https://www.usacycling.org/events/st...7&rrfilter=all
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Old 10-28-17, 06:57 AM
  #1738  
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Originally Posted by mattm
everyone says this, but: how many road/crit races are there per year, vs how many cx races?

if there were only 10 road/crit races per year, i bet the fields would be packed.
That’s the thing. There aren’t that many RRs/Crits anymore the calendar keeps getting smaller. I’d guess half our Crits are weeknight events too. And despite the reduced number, the turnout isn’t good.

Truthfully, we probably have as many cross races as RRs/Crits at this point, and cross participation is stronger, especially among juniors and women.

I think my big issue with cross is the timing. I don’t want to race in the winter. I want it to be an off-season.
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Old 10-28-17, 08:22 AM
  #1739  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
you've honestly never heard this before?

i hear it many times a season. someone usually thinks it is particularly witty (it IS, the first time you hear it). i bet if you follow the guy who says it around you'd find he works it into nearly every ride.

it mainly applies to stuff like rolling up on a rider off in the distance -- any rider, even a commuter -- and upping your pace to catch them. stuff like that.
No I hadn't; wasn't trying to be obtuse.

The last part makes sense - there is a little bit of cat 6 racer in all of us.
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Old 10-28-17, 08:23 AM
  #1740  
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Originally Posted by mattm
everyone says this, but: how many road/crit races are there per year, vs how many cx races?

if there were only 10 road/crit races per year, i bet the fields would be packed.
lol you can race cx almost every saturday and sunday (and at least 3 wednesdays, which are real races not training races, some of the biggest of the year) form september through like december around here. most weekends you have choices between multiple races each day within 2.5hrs of boston.

i love road/crit racing, but as a sport I think cross is undoubtedly the future.
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Old 10-28-17, 09:07 AM
  #1741  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
...
I think my big issue with cross is the timing. I don’t want to race in the winter. I want it to be an off-season.
As stated totally new to this cross thing. But if it makes its way to summer, and is as fun as many say, it will eat into road season, and it would not surprise me if it did. Some of the top junior MTB/cross kids would miss early road selection races. When they showed up, they were slower, by summer, they were full speed. I don't like it seems to favor higher weight than road.

There are some things in the cross rules about temperature. That is the first time I remember reading about temperature in any cycling rules. So I guess now, at least cross is tied to season. Wondering how it is in the southern hemisphere.
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Old 10-28-17, 09:35 AM
  #1742  
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Originally Posted by Doge
As stated totally new to this cross thing. But if it makes its way to summer, and is as fun as many say, it will eat into road season, and it would not surprise me if it did. Some of the top junior MTB/cross kids would miss early road selection races. When they showed up, they were slower, by summer, they were full speed. I don't like it seems to favor higher weight than road.

There are some things in the cross rules about temperature. That is the first time I remember reading about temperature in any cycling rules. So I guess now, at least cross is tied to season. Wondering how it is in the southern hemisphere.
It’s already cut in. Road season here used to go into September. Now, it’s pretty much done by end of July and cross starts in mid August.

I don’t know about any temperature rules, but it sucks doing a hot, humid, dusty cross race. And as much as people talk about how awesome it is to race in the mud, I’m not terribly interested in racing in cold, wet weather.
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Old 10-28-17, 09:45 AM
  #1743  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
It’s already cut in. Road season here used to go into September. Now, it’s pretty much done by end of July and cross starts in mid August.

I don’t know about any temperature rules, but it sucks doing a hot, humid, dusty cross race. And as much as people talk about how awesome it is to race in the mud, I’m not terribly interested in racing in cold, wet weather.
Seems USA Rules: 4. Cyclo-cross Racing
4A15. Feeding is generally not permitted unless specifically
authorized by the Chief Referee. If authorized, there is
normally no feeding in the first two and final two laps of the
race, and a temperature of at least 68 degrees is
recommended


I guess if it is below 68F - no food for you.



The UCI rules, which are used (stated they will be used) a lot in the USA races as opposed to road races. https://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/R...-E_English.pdf

Temperature:

5.1.057 - May cancel if below -15C
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Old 10-28-17, 11:43 AM
  #1744  
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We're always 1 American TdF Champion away from road racing to be a booming sport again. Its not dying, there are peaks and valleys, and we're in a pretty deep valley right now.
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Old 10-28-17, 12:43 PM
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Junior doing his first cross race today 2:50 MDT for :55 min. Jumping right into men's open. I kinda like that method. I expect he'll get shelled a few times, but at least his expectations will be set properly :-)
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Old 10-28-17, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
We're always 1 American TdF Champion away from road racing to be a booming sport again. Its not dying, there are peaks and valleys, and we're in a pretty deep valley right now.
more people -> more cars on the roads -> less places to safely race+train = dying sport.
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Old 10-28-17, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mike868y
more people -> more cars on the roads -> less places to safely race+train = dying sport.
The attitudes are more significant than the numbers IMO. Very high population areas have lots of bicycles. USA has a more - "get off my road" culture.
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Old 10-28-17, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mike868y
lol you can race cx almost every saturday and sunday (and at least 3 wednesdays, which are real races not training races, some of the biggest of the year) form september through like december around here. most weekends you have choices between multiple races each day within 2.5hrs of boston.

i love road/crit racing, but as a sport I think cross is undoubtedly the future.
September thru December..

So maybe road racing is over in MA, but I don’t feel like it’s the case over here, even if people always say it is.

I’m not saying cx isn’t popular, but if you add up the # of people that register for road races/crits during the year, vs cx races during the year, there is a clear winner.
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Old 10-28-17, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mike868y
more people -> more cars on the roads -> less places to safely race+train = dying sport.
I can't argue with that logic now, but things are going to drastically change in the next 15 years which will hopefully help safety on the road. Once we have fully autonomous cars and people start noticing the drastic differences in safety it will hopefully cause a snowball effect and they'll be the dominant form of transportation. That will help us out there.

There's also a push for more bike lanes, mups, etc.
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Old 10-29-17, 06:41 AM
  #1750  
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Originally Posted by mattm
I’m not saying cx isn’t popular, but if you add up the # of people that register for road races/crits during the year, vs cx races during the year, there is a clear winner.
Here, it would be cross.
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