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Giant gravel bikes geometry question

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Giant gravel bikes geometry question

Old 04-14-19, 03:05 AM
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RicePudding
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Giant gravel bikes geometry question

I managed to have a look at a Giant Revolt Advanced 2 in a local shop which was a rare occasion as it seems incredibly difficult to find them as they appear to be out of stock everywhere close to me. Unfortunately they didn't have my size there so I didn't take it for a test ride.

I compared the geometry of the bike with my Toughroad GX1 which in a M/L comes out very close albeit Chainstay length which is a lot shorter on the Revolt.

So I was wondering, if two bikes have geometry as similar as this, would you feel much of a difference in the handling and feel of the bike. Obviously there's the debate of aluminium harshness vs carbon compliance and the spec bump from Tiagra to 105 but just regarding the frame, would you expect there to be much difference between them?

Not sure whether this will boil down to the average Joe not feeling any difference and a bike enthusiast finding it night and day. Just a shame that I didn't get to give it a go, looks great!



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Old 04-14-19, 07:01 AM
  #2  
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WRT material...tire selection (TPI and width) and pressure does more to alter ride properties. The biggest difference is in how long the chainstays are. If you want to put a rack on it to haul anything the 2018 bike would be better WRT heel-strike on panniers....otherwise almost copy/paste identical.

For $2,100 of your income...what you end up doing is trading up to 105, something you can buy in retail boxes for $300USD (non-disc, since you have that Giant Conduct system), and probably pay for a few hours of shop labor to have installed....and pays 70% less money if you like your bike as is, or use that money and buy some blingy wheels. Or you could get hydro Di2 Ultegra and have it installed, and still come out ahead.
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Old 04-14-19, 07:35 AM
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There's no difference between tiagra and 105. All you get is slightly less weight and an extra gear at the high end which is essentially useless in practice.

The two big things between those frames - other than chainstay - is trail and frame material. Carbon->Aluminum is a big change and Giant is well-developed enough for their carbon to ride noticeably better than their aluminum frames. Whether you notice or care is another thing, some people can't tell the difference but most can, IMO.

With respect to trail, the site you linked quotes pneumatic trail but even taking it as nominal value both are high trail at 66/74. This is a big enough difference that it would be the main driver in determining how the two bikes feel. The higher the trail the more the bike will want to turn by leaning - this expresses itself as often feeling reluctant and slow to maneuver, comparatively. Upside is very high stability at speed in a straight line, front wheel impacts impart much less leverage over the steering and the bike will feel very confident on gravel descents - as long as they're straight. Curvy descents or tight corners often lead to understeer conditions as it's very hard to lean the bike enough without losing traction on loose surfaces. This also makes higher trail bikes less forgiving in the rain and during maneuvering in tight spaces like navigating disconnected sections or MUP. Average joe will notice trail/flop right after they notice how heavy the bike is. Tires/Trail/Material are three things that have the biggest impact on how a bike feels, IMO.

I regularly ride gravel on a few different bikes split between 76/57/40 trail values and I'll never consider a high-trail/non-mtb bike for gravel or regular road riding again. Just doesn't handle very well outside of one or two conditions. 66mm of trail is a ok number and factoring in everything else I'd recommend the Revolt A2 - but still you should always test ride.
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Old 04-16-19, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
There's no difference between tiagra and 105. All you get is slightly less weight and an extra gear at the high end which is essentially useless in practice.

The two big things between those frames - other than chainstay - is trail and frame material. Carbon->Aluminum is a big change and Giant is well-developed enough for their carbon to ride noticeably better than their aluminum frames. Whether you notice or care is another thing, some people can't tell the difference but most can, IMO.

With respect to trail, the site you linked quotes pneumatic trail but even taking it as nominal value both are high trail at 66/74. This is a big enough difference that it would be the main driver in determining how the two bikes feel. The higher the trail the more the bike will want to turn by leaning - this expresses itself as often feeling reluctant and slow to maneuver, comparatively. Upside is very high stability at speed in a straight line, front wheel impacts impart much less leverage over the steering and the bike will feel very confident on gravel descents - as long as they're straight. Curvy descents or tight corners often lead to understeer conditions as it's very hard to lean the bike enough without losing traction on loose surfaces. This also makes higher trail bikes less forgiving in the rain and during maneuvering in tight spaces like navigating disconnected sections or MUP. Average joe will notice trail/flop right after they notice how heavy the bike is. Tires/Trail/Material are three things that have the biggest impact on how a bike feels, IMO.

I regularly ride gravel on a few different bikes split between 76/57/40 trail values and I'll never consider a high-trail/non-mtb bike for gravel or regular road riding again. Just doesn't handle very well outside of one or two conditions. 66mm of trail is a ok number and factoring in everything else I'd recommend the Revolt A2 - but still you should always test ride.
Yeah agreed that there is barely any difference in the mid range groupsets to the higher end these days bar weight. I'm fairly happy with the Tiagra setup given that I use my bike for commuting, the shifting feels great and it's nice to know that any beaten up components are easy and relatively cheap to replace.

I had a feeling that the fork would play a much greater role that the frame in comparison to the TR GX as they do differ a little more. I agree entirely with the higher trail making tighter steering a bit more difficult. I had a bit of a squeaky bum moment on a commute the other day when turning around some barriers on a bridleway where it feels like the front wheel just wanted to wander off. Managed to recover it ok though.

That said, I'm not looking to upgrade to the Revolt Advanced 2 right now but it's definitely on my radar if I can find the right price for one. Looks like my dream bike on paper.
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Old 04-16-19, 06:19 AM
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I have had my Toughroad for only a week now. Being a complete tire pressure newb, I have to ask, what pressure are you running on yours. Shop set mine at 70 psi front and back.
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Old 04-16-19, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by zarbog
I have had my Toughroad for only a week now. Being a complete tire pressure newb, I have to ask, what pressure are you running on yours. Shop set mine at 70 psi front and back.
I have changed the wheels and tyres since getting my GX1 last year and on my new set I run tubes so I now normally run them at around 70 PSI to avoid pinch flats while giving a little bit of cushion.

However, when I did run tubeless I was changing the pressure often depending on what sort of riding I was doing. I would normally run around 35 PSI if I was on rugged terrain and 80 PSI if I was just getting to places on the road.

If you're running yours tubeless, experiment a little, just bear in mind that higher pressures will feel more harsh but will reduce your rolling resistance while lower pressures will increase comfort and grip as well as reducing chances of punctures on rough surfaces. If you just want all around pressure then I would recommend between 60-65 PSI.
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Old 04-16-19, 01:14 PM
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Thanks RicePudding, yes they are tubeless. I will lower the front a bit, try 65 psi for a while. Once the trails dry out maybe I will go down lower front and back.
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Old 04-16-19, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RicePudding
If you're running yours tubeless, experiment a little, just bear in mind that higher pressures will feel more harsh but will reduce your rolling resistance
If you pump your tires stiff enough that they "feel harsh" on the riding surface, it can be slowing you down. The energy being used to make you uncomfortable is coming straight out of your forward motion.
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Old 04-16-19, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
If you pump your tires stiff enough that they "feel harsh" on the riding surface, it can be slowing you down. The energy being used to make you uncomfortable is coming straight out of your forward motion.
I mean comparatively harsh in comparison to lower pressures, yes I agree that it you're running high pressures on rough surfaces if will be jarring and uncomfortable and will lead to a lower speed. I only run high pressures if I know that my ride will consist of purely well maintained road.
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Old 04-17-19, 01:30 PM
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70psi on 40mm tubeless tires? Yikes. Running them that high is completely negating the advantage of running them tubeless. I run Maxxis 40mm Ramblers at 32psi and have even gone as low as 28 psi.
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Old 04-17-19, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
I regularly ride gravel on a few different bikes split between 76/57/40 trail values and I'll never consider a high-trail/non-mtb bike for gravel or regular road riding again. Just doesn't handle very well outside of one or two conditions. 66mm of trail is a ok number and factoring in everything else I'd recommend the Revolt A2 - but still you should always test ride.
What bike of yours has 40mm of trail?
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Old 04-17-19, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
What bike of yours has 40mm of trail?
Soma Fog Cutter using the Champs Elysees low-trail disc fork with 47mm Horizon tire in the front and 40mm Compass BSP in the rear.
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Old 04-17-19, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Soma Fog Cutter using the Champs Elysees low-trail disc fork with 47mm Horizon tire in the front and 40mm Compass BSP in the rear.
very cool. Have you posted this bike before and I've missed it? I knew you have a fog cutter, but figured it had their carbon fork or the regular steel disc fork.

I hadnt ever looked at those low trail forks on their site.
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Old 04-19-19, 09:33 AM
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I have a 2018 Giant Toughroad SLR GX0 and a 2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 2. I am definitely an average joe rider, so take my opinon with that in mind. The bikes feel totally different. I have a size small in both bikes, setup stock.
I ride more on the road than anywhere else, so I have been using my Revolt on the road primarily. It feels very much like the endurance type road bikes I have had in the past, just with wider tires. I absolutely love it. Extremely comfortable. I ride solo 95% of the time, so if I go just slightly slower, it does not bother me. The tubeless tires allows me to run lower pressure and keep the ride nice and plush. I am about 220 lbs, so I run the rear tire just below 40psi and the front, about 30psi. Lots of rough crappy roads around me, chip and seal, potholes, cracks, etc. So I really appreciate the plush feel.
I primarily ride the Toughroad on rail trail type gravel. Relatively smooth crushed limestone trails. It is extremely comfortable for this type of riding. I much prefer the Revolt on the road though, as I immediately feel like I am sitting in the bike with the toughroad, and more on top of the bike with the Revolt if that makes any sense. The toughroad feels more like a 29er. Not as upright, but noticeably more upright than the revolt. With that being said, I probably would not notice the upright feel as much if I did not have the revolt. I ride the revolt a lot more than the toughroad.
I love both bikes, and feel like to have both of them...
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