Sullalto

Yeah, and what people say they want to ride and actually ride are two different things.

"I'm going to explore 4-wheeling double track! Forest service/fire roads! Maybe some easy singletrack?" and then you actually do well groomed, perfectly draining rail-trails or crushed limestone or good farm roads that don't need more than 32mm tires to be comfortable. Less if you're a good bike handler and it's dry. Or maybe you do the horse track next to the paved rail-trail.



But a big part of that is also where you live. I live in Western Washington. In winter I live inside a national forest, and that's where I like to ride. I have 40mm tires(clement MSO) and I'd like things a bit wider. Outside of summer it's wet, and the road quality is poor(road only gets l. In winter I've often got a couple inches of snow to deal with. I also want clearance for those wide tires. I put my bike in the car often, so that means taking off the wheels. So thru-axles are convenient. My bike choices are limited. Or I ride out of the national park, 40 miles into town and I can spend anywhere from 0-75% of that trip on gravel or easy singletrack.

Dirt paths in South Texas I didn't like doing on 28mm tires with an endurance road bike. But had I some tread(instead of slicks) or 33mm cx tires, I bet I'd be fine.

When I was in Reno recently, and saw all the double track off the highway, If putzing around Lemmon Valley was any indication, I'd probably still be fine with a cx bike and tires. Denver, if you head east, not asking much of the bike. West into the mountains? Probably asking more.

Part of the 'problem' with the unsettled market is that a paved road is a paved road. That's basically a unified experience. Road bikes can easily be judged against each other. The adventure/gravel/all-road moniker is not a unified experience. The bike I wanted in San Antonio might be the same bike I want in the midwest, but maybe not. It was definitely not the same bike I want in the mountainous, temperate rainforest of the Olympic Peninsula.

But fitting road plus and fenders is a couple boxes I need checked, so the fuji jari is definitely on my list when I replace my stolen raleigh willard in a couple months.

BrianO21921

Interesting perspective on the Jari and Tread. I'm trying to figure out how the Jamis and Masi are superior or better suited for gravel/adventure than the Jari. The Jari has features neither of the aforementioned have (direct mount for bento box, shouldering pad). The only other brand that offered bento box mount in 2017 was Open. For 2018 other brands well regarded in this category (namely salsa, devinci, 3T exploro) are following up with these features. You might want to check the media reviews as well... Ben Edwards at Peloton Magazine raved about the Jari. Fuji admittedly acknowleged that the Tread was an early interpretation of the category. The Jari however is purpose built and anything but forgettable. They spent three years developing that bike. They added even more features for 2018...

PM me, happy to take the Jari off your hands. It begs the question, if the brand and it's offerings are so forgettable, why did you bother buying a Tread and a Jari?!

dwmckee

Well, the new Masi Gravel line is available https://masibikes.com/collections/gravel. The $929 CXGR and $1129 CXGR Comp are steel and compare nicely with the Fuji and you should definitely try a side by side comparison. The Jamis Renegade series is largely unchanged. $799 for the Exploit (aluminum) and $1199 for the Expat. adventurebikes

All of these ride and handle better than the Jari and especially the Tread. If you ride the Jari only you might like it. If you ride the Jari next to a comparable model Masi or Renegade, you will definitely want the Masi or the Jamis.

If you could ride a paper bike, then maybe the Jari that looks good on paper would work, but you need to ride these side by side. The Jari is on the heavy side, but more importantly is is fairly dead and uninspiring when you ride it. People will buy them that do not know what a good steel bike can feel like...

If you ride them all and cannot feel the difference then you should just save some money and buy the lower end Jamis & Masi models that are less expensive. If you can feel the difference then you will want to buy the mid-line Jamis and Masi.

There are lots of great gravel bikes, but if you are looking for a great bike around $1,000 then your choices narrow quickly.

I buy and sell bikes and personally own 16 different models of gravel bike including low and high end, made of steel, aluminum, titanium and carbon. I ride lots of gravel.

My 2017 Tread is for sale for $529. My 2017 Jari is for sale at 15% below list. Both in new condition if you are interested...

mstateglfr 

So you have already ridden the '18 Jari AND the '18 Masi and Jamis bikes?
Without that, your comments cant be taken seriously.

As for the 'good steel' comment, can you tell us whay the generic butted Masi steel is 'gooder' than the Fuji steel? Is the Masi steel a different butting or is it the geometry thats so significantly different that it makes the ride better?

Just curious what your experiences are after having ridden these '18 bikes and why you think the Masi and Jamis are better riding steel.

shoota 

I tried that, it doesn't work...well..

chas58

I wonder why not.

My road and mountain bike frames are just under 4 lbs. Carbon is around 2 lbs. given the price difference, you should be able to shave a lot of weight with good parts. I can often get 1 lb just getting good wheels, and a little more with tires. There are 15-20lbs on a good bicycle that are not frame related - lots of room for weight loss there.

Yeah, if you want to go below UCI weight minimums, its going to be hard to do with steel. But, a 20lb bike is doable.

chas58

Really? I have two steel frames that weigh in at carbon +2 lbs. They were not expensive. Its not walmart steel, but it doesn't have to be 800 series reynolds either...

chas58

sometimes i wonder if we are not over thinking it. I tend to pick the tire size the terrain requires and go from there.

My old school mountain bike has done everything from 500 mile tours to mountain bike racing to fast club road rides - just by switching out the wheels tires. Bikes today try to get so specialized that you need a garage full. From stiff light agile road bikes to long-low-slack mountain bike without tall gearing we have boxed ourselves in. Now we have bikes that try to split the difference but still claim to be specialized. sometimes I just want to get out there and ride whatever is under my butt...

mstateglfr 

You said there is no good reason for steel to not be within 2# of carbon. I think cost is a good reason.

Are you genuinely only talking about frame material or frame and fork? Sure- if its just frame material, then 2# difference is doable and common- Jamis Renegade Expert vs Renegade Exploit for example- same drivetrain and brakes groupset, both carbon forks, and 2.75# difference.
Jamis Xenith Comp in 105 form or Jamis Quest Elite in 105 form- the steel Quest is $750 less and only .25# heavier. Again though- carbon fork on the Quest.

If you are talking steel frame only, then sure 2# is absolutely doable and cost will be comparable(or even less, perhaps)
If you mean frame+fork though, which is what i figured...

shoota 

Well, maybe my data sample pool is just too small. But that was my exact thinking when I went to buy a gravel bike. Got a cheap steel Tamland and put loads of leightweight parts on it. I have maybe $2000 total into it retail-wise. And after all that it weighs almost 23lbs. So I bought a SuperX frameset and will be transferring everything over. By my calculations it should be right at 19lbs when done.

Sullalto

That's indirectly what I'm getting at, exactly. Your terrain absolutely directs your tire choices-and clearance required. And right now, tire clearance is all over the map in this segment. So your terrain dictates the bike. I don't think that's the case with road bikes, and within their base sub-genre(hardtail vs full susp vs fat), MTBing is more homogeneous as well.

As much as I love talking about nonsense on the internet(what else am I going to do at work?). I think tire choices(and the bike purchase that follows that) is something best figured out locally. I'm guessing my local logging/forest service roads in an area that gets 60"+ of rain(or 120"+ on the west shore) is going to want a different tire than New Mexico mountains in fall.

But maybe roads semi-destroyed by logging trucks in a rainforest and roads semi-destroyed by oil traffic in a near-desert require the same things, I dunno.

knottshore

I have been toying with getting a gravel bike- I have zero road riding experience so it takes a bit of getting used to. I spent the day on a Jamis Renegade Expat and a Fuji Yari 1.3 (51 jams and most time on a 52 Yari but some time on a 54). I prefer steel bikes so leaned toward the Jamis but I have to say I was very surprised at how nice the Aluminum Jari felt- not your typical stiff and chattery frame. The build on the Jamis is a level down but I really wanted to get a feel for the two bikes side by side for fit and feel. I rode a bit of road, some leave covered single track, smooth dirt/gravel trails and some crush and run with bigger rocks mixed in to add some discomfort. for me I am not looking for a drop bar mountain bike so running 2.1's etc are of no interest currently (I have two steel hard tails one rigid so if I want to ride just single track I am covered)- Here is my unedu-ma-cated take-

Jamis Renegade Expat 51: much shorter head tube (this bike had some serious spacers installed so bar height was similar but the bike looks much smaller for some reason?) shorter wheelbase and much quicker steering. Fit wise I am torn because the 51 has an ETT of 534 but jumps to 551 on the 54 so feel like I am on the cusp of the 51 but 21mm is a big jump. if I go with the Jamis it will likely be the Exploit model which is a slightly higher end steel and full 105.

Fuji Yari 1.3 I did not even have a Fuji on my radar but went to a yard "clinic" at my LBS and had the chance to chat with a few guys who influenced the design. Hearing hype about an aluminum frame is cheap and I was thinking hmmm, "different' feeling aluminum... I have two OX Platinum steel frames that I love and have a hard time swallowing jargon but after a ride with the stock 35c tires on the Jari and very similar 36C tires on the Jamis I came away quite surprised at how smooth it felt, I really can't say the Jamis was smoother. for my taste the Stock bars are just what I want, I had planned on adding some wood chippers but not sure I will need if I go with the Jari-

I really enjoyed both bikes, and prior to to day I was sold on the Jamis Renegade *after some shorter test rides on a few other contenders) - I am now a bit conflicted. I sold a fairly expensive full squish carbon bike and have a much more limited amount of time to ride so have no interest in dumping a ton of upgrades into either- short of person fit items such as a seat, pedals, bars, stem and possibly seat post I want to buy it for as cheap as I can and ride it when I can (less than I want...).

I think your missing out by pigeon holing brands - it is hard to buy on paper and good things come from all over - I love the choices but man it makes it difficult.

knottshore

I have been toying with getting a gravel bike- I have zero road riding experience so it takes a bit of getting used to. I spent the day on a Jamis Renegade Expat and a Fuji Yari 1.3 (51 jams and most time on a 52 Yari but some time on a 54). I prefer steel bikes so leaned toward the Jamis but I have to say I was very surprised at how nicely the Aluminum Jari felt- not your typical stiff and chattery frame. The build on the Jamis is a level down but I really wanted to get a feel for the two bikes side by side for fit and feel. I rode a bit of road, some leave covered single track, smooth dirt/gravel trails and some crush and run with bigger rocks mixed in to add some discomfort. for me I am not looking for a drop bar mountain bike so running 2.1's etc are of no interest currently (I have two steel hard tails one rigid so if I want to ride just single track I am covered)- Here is my unedu-ma-cated take-

Jamis Renegade Expat 51: much shorter head tube (this bike had some serious spacers installed so bar height was similar but the bike looks much smaller for some reason?) shorter wheelbase and much quicker steering. Fit wise I am torn because the 51 has an ETT of 534 but jumps to 551 on the 54 so feel like I am on the cusp of the 51 but 21mm is a big jump. if I go with the Jamis it will likely be the Exploit model which is a slightly higher end steel and full 105.

Fuji Yari 1.3 I did not even have a Fuji on my radar but went to a yard "clinic" at my LBS and had the chance to chat with a few guys who influenced the design. Hearing hype about an aluminum frame is cheap and I was thinking hmmm, "different' feeling aluminum... I have two OX Platinum steel frames that I love and have a hard time swallowing jargon but after a ride with the stock 35c tires on the Jari and very similar 36C tires on the Jamis I came away quite surprised at how smooth it felt, I really can't say the Jamis was smoother. for my taste the Stock bars are just what I want, I had planned on adding some wood chippers but not sure I will need if I go with the Jari-

I really enjoyed both bikes, and prior to to day I was sold on the Jamis Renegade *after some shorter test rides on a few other contenders) - I am now a bit conflicted. I sold a fairly expensive full squish carbon bike and have a much more limited amount of time to ride so have no interest in dumping a ton of upgrades into either- short of person fit items such as a seat, pedals, bars, stem and possibly seat post I want to buy it for as cheap as I can and ride it when I can (less than I want...).

I think your missing out by pigeon holing brands - it is hard to buy on paper and good things come from all over - I love the choices but man it makes it difficult.

09box

I think a gravel/all road/adventure bike is whatever you make it out to be. My Fuji is classed as an 'endurance road bike ' but I've rode singletrack, rail trails, roads, everything in between. I think the definition is whatever you make it out to be and keep riding is the important thing. 😀

The Fuji Jari is a solid bike from the one I've seen in a local LBS.

Amthdan

Dwmckee. What is wrong with the Jari and Tread? What makes the Sportif and Touring better?

355Mono

I just got my 2016 Tread 1.1 last week, and have been on 3 fifteen mile rides, on local paved, busted, potholed roads. 23 lbs, smooth shifting 105's (since they were tweaked), and my own saddle. I'm happy with what I consider to be a great value, at $700, from Nashbar. It just depends on WHAT your needs are. I wanted an off season, drop bar training bike. I'll probably do some gravel trails, etc., but this allows me to start riding much earlier in the season. I've owned Treks for many years, MTN, and road. Kids, expenses, schools, guitars, have limited my bike budget. I also ride a Kestrel RT 1000 SL Di2. This bike has upped my game for longer, faster group rides. The quick shifting, quick reacting Kestrel does what I need it to do, on my faster rides. Also, budget friendly. It's easy to overthink all this stuff. I was not feeling right about $1900 to $2500 for a Domane Gravel, carbon or alloy. Or , a multitude of other bikes. This is a fun and helpful site for information. I do think half the fun is researching, and shopping. At some point you realize a bunch of different bikes will probably make you happy. And, you gotta' start somewhere. That's my personal Tread story, and I think everyone should be riding a Tread! (what was the question?)

cs1

Thru axles are nice no doubt about it. But we had 20+ years of down hill bikes with QR's. They performed flawlessly. Are you saying you're going to put a road bike through a tougher ride than a down hill rider? I seriously doubt it.

Lazyass

We're talking about disc brakes. It's easier to center the rotor between the pads with thru axles during a wheel change.

09box

Congratulations on your Tread! I think Fuji makes solid bikes for the money. If I were in the market for a new bike, id strongly a Jari..

dwmckee

QRs were pretty good. TAs are better - Stiffer, especially on the front fork. Old QRs did not seem floppy at all to me until I rode my first TA; you could tell a difference immediately. Try this simple test. Hold the front wheel of a QR bike between your legs snugly and apply a light twist pressure to the handlebars and see how much twist there is even with normal light steering pressure; you will see several degrees of flex even with this light torque. Then try the same thing with a TA front wheel. You can immediately see how much less flex with a TA. It really is surprising how much twist there is in a QR front end, even with light steering torque.

dwmckee

I'll tell you what hundreds of customers in our shop and at demo events tell us. We are a very large gravel bike dealer and have 19 different models on our sales floor now at a variety of price points. We sell 6 main brands at our shop including Jamis and Fuji. When our customers ride several bikes side by side, for a variety of reasons, no one ever buys the Jari or the Tread. We sell probably 30 Jamis Renegades which is our most popular gravel bike to every Jari. The number 1 Renegade model is the Tiagra-equipped steel model but we sell everything from the low end to the top model. Even the Aluminum Claris model Renegade is chosen above any model of the Jari and Tread. They tell us a number of things they like more about the Renegade including more precise handling, better vibration dampening and overall a more confidence-inspiring stance on the bike. Some also tell us a 1x drive train isn't really needed on a gravel bike since you simply do not get into the need for quick downshifting on gravel like you do on a mountain bike.


We are closing out our last Jari and I believe and our last Tread this month (both 58CM) due to lack of customer interest if anyone is interested in purchasing either one.


Maybe in a future model change Fuji will get it right as certainly the Jari is an improvement over the Tread, but for now both are really pretty lackluster models unless all that really matters is being able to say what a great deal you got on it at Performance...

koolerb

I could only find a few professional reviews on the Jari and they were both the top spec aluminum model. Both were positive, and the Jari seemed to be good value for money so I just pulled the trigger on an aluminum 1.3. About 35 miles over two rides so far and I'm liking it. Really fun bike. I realize you're talking about a steel model but though I would offer some feedback.

BrianO21921

dwmckee Which shop do you work at? Depending on where it is I might want to take a trip out there. Thanks!

koolerb

Just out of curiosity what don't people like about the Jari? In comparison the geometry is pretty similar to a lot of the premium brand bikes. Very close to identical in many cases. The bike are loaded with good parts, tubeless wheels, and good tires. It's just a little heavier than my road bike. Seems like its about 2 miles an hour slower,,, I think. Not sure why, bigger tires, super wide bars? The only thing I'm having a hard time getting used to are the bars. I think I'd like something a little closer to a normal road handlebar. Other than that I can't really think of anything I don't like about it. It's been awesome on these debris covered, potholed northeastern spring roads. I'm having a really good time with it. What's not to like?

Kasjak

Hello
I Just have a budget of 1000€ and i am looking for a Jari 1.7 2018 I will hope for a sale. So as I dont have the knowledge about bikes because this would be my First one that isnt a 100€ Supermarkt Bike. I would be very thanksfull If you would Help me.