palincss

My money's on English. I don't think the Taylors ever messed with French or Swiss bottom bracket threading.

ReidH

Very nice Jack Taylor Ladyback tandem. Good to see it has its Cycle derailleur. These derailleurs work quite well when cleaned and regreased and a good chain is installed. Recommend you replace the chain with a Sram 850s. They work very well with Cyclo derailleurs in my experience and will probably reduce the overshifting to next to nothing. The lever travel is long between gears, but there should be little overshift and you should be able to feel the cog catch the chain through the lever. The Taylors were right in their recommendations for derailleurs for a touring tandem. The Simplex type 56 was probably the only "off the shelf" front derailleur at the time that could do the job of shifting the wide range triple. These come up on ebay from time to time.
You can find decent French thread derailleurs on French Ebay. You can even go to a compact 6 speed freewheel as the Cycle 5 speed works fine with those.
The correct screw for teh cycle derailleur can be had on Ebay as well, if that would feven it after a 10-24 has been screwed into the braze on. I can't recall if the correct screw is 0.75, 0.80 or 1.00 mm thread pitch.
You can even go to a compact 6 speed freewheel as the Cycle 5 speed works fine with those.

Jack Taylor tandems handle well, in my experience, though I haven't rode a ladyback tandem so there may be some differences.

scarlson 

I did the bottom brackets today. You are correct! The cups thread into an old Nishiki, but only thread partway into a scrap Peugeot. British/ISO threading confirmed.

The funny thing is that the bottom brackets didn't even need overhauling. The grease was clean and they turned smoothly. Ah well, better safe than sorry.

scarlson 

So nice to hear from someone who has experience with a Le Cyclo! I'm actually pretty happy with it now that things are better adjusted. And yeah, this tandem got lucky. So many of the old Taylors have had their Le Cyclo derailleur mounts cut off. Before my ride, I did a complete teardown and rebuild of the Le Cyclo and this did improve things. When I got it, it wasn't shifting at all! I replaced the pin that rides in the spiral groove, which was heavily worn, and this helped immensely.

Do you mean the SRAM PC-850?

I agree with the Taylors' assessment. They definitely knew what they were talking about! The trouble I'm running into with the derailleur is that even a Suntour Mountech doesn't like the wide triple. Its cage doesn't go close enough to the frame to shift into the small chainring. I wonder if an AG-Tech would work. There is a Juy 56 on Ebay right now, but it's quite expensive.

I just bought a French threaded Maillard freewheel body that can take 6, 7, or 8 speeds, and I will try to do some experimentation with it. We shall see what happens. As for the screw, a Simplex 5x1.00 appears to be holding. I'm satisfied with that, and it looks fine.

It does handle really well. I took my Ron Cooper on the same steep curvy descent that I'd just done on Jack Taylor, and the Taylor is comparable - even though it is a tandem. It didn't feel flexible or anything. And better still, it is comfortable for the riders to exert themselves. My stoker said it "felt like she was just moving her feet in circles and not working hard". The funny thing was, she was pedaling harder than ever. It was very special.

ReidH

Yes, Sram PC-850 chain.

Finding front derailleurs to work with front drive tandems can be challenging. I didn't see a front braze on your bike for the Simplex type 56. If you plan on using a type 56 in the future, would need the clamps or another solution.

BTW, the bottle cage looks like a Simplex.

Reid

scarlson 

Reid, you are a fountain of information! Yeah I'd thought about the clamp. I will machine one if I can't get one with whatever derailleur I use. I can faux-rust it with some vinegar if it comes to that.

You are so right. I bet the Taylors brazed on the bolt mounts to it and removed the Simplex name plate, or else it fell off.

ReidH

For an LED taillight, you can't go wrong using the LED retrofit bulb sold by Rene Herse. They have surprising standlight capability and requires no modifications to the taillight
Now, if your headlight is a Radios 16, there is a Schmidt headlight that you can modify to fit into the Radios headlight rim and body for the modern LED beam pattern and brightness.

Reid

scarlson 

I did investigate the option of using a Rene Herse-sold taillight retrofit bulb, but I have two problems with that. The first is that it's expensive. The second is that the taillight retrofit LED they sell will be damaged if ever the headlight becomes disconnected at speed. I feel like, with my luck, I'd snag a wire and quickly flush $20 down the toilet.

That's the advantage of the Pilom circuits. They are cheap and they won't burn up easily because they're simple and analog and rely on the dynamo's intrinsic properties as a current-source rather than a voltage-source, and don't use complex integrated circuits. And the Pilom circuits do provide me with a decent standlight if I use modern supercapacitors, and they fit into the bulb housings without modification if I use modern miniaturized components, so I'm fine with them. The only real drawback is the optics of the Radios reflector, and really it isn't bad because there is just so much light pouring out of the LED.

I'd be curious as to how the Schmidt headlight is made to fit inside a Radios housing. I haven't heard about this.

My headlight is a Radios 18, but it appears it is pretty similar to a Radios 16. In any case, I can't afford the Schmidt products either!! Again I thought about putting a Busch and Muller Avy Plus in there, but while it would fit, it would require taking out the original silver-plated Radios reflector, and although this is reversible it makes for a rather garish modification in my opinion.

I'm just playing to my strengths with this stuff. It's hard enough to play the big-name-collector/grail-bike game on a PhD candidate's stipend in the third most expensive city in the USA, but I have access to all the tools to make the parts I need instead of buying them at a premium from Jan Heine and Peter White.

63rickert

Simplex 56 is one obscure derailleur. Had to look that one up. It's a pull-chain derailleur. If Velobase information is correct it would have been made/marketed in '56 and '57 only. Looking at the thing no surprise it was dropped quick.

The obvious (not many thing are obvious, this is) derailleur is a lever-action, aka suicide shifter. Cyclo, Simplex, Huret, or homemade. They are incredibly simple and positive. Which is why they were used a lot back when there weren't good cable operated shifters. Slower than Di2, once you try it you won't care. And once is enough, there is no learning curve. Get on and shift.

If cable operation is a must the Campag Record shifter came out in 1960 and shifts a TA triple quite well. Used by the Taylors on many builds. Not much of an anachronism on a 1959 bike. What was the question? Campagnolo is always the answer.

63rickert

You have an old bike. Modern parts will not work. SunTour shifters are fine, the ones you tried are made for splayed out duck foot cranks. You have an old straight crank. Campag works great on straight cranks.

Do not believe hype about Campag prices. That is all for NIB parts. Last Campag derailleur (rear) I acquired was free. If I had a front in house I'd send it to you. For a used derailleur market is maybe $10. There is a big supply. No one at all can tell the difference between a '60 shifter and a '68 shifter. There is a huge animus against Campag on this board because of that racer who was mean to someone in 1975. People who want bikes that work use the parts that work.

Salamandrine 

So that's a Simplex bottle cage. I've never seen one. Amazing. Also amazing is the knowledge on this board. Thanks for the info.


Is it just me or does that thing look like it was designed to hold a wine bottle?



I agree. Campagnolo now is a bargain. My theory is that people didn't throw it away because it cost so much originally. Secondly, it's very hard to wear out. Thirdly, it was the dominant component of choice if you were a racer or serious cyclist for decades. Therefore, there is still a relatively ample supply, making current prices fairly reasonable.

scarlson 

Yeah, I don't really want the thing because it's high-normal (rapid rise), so the shifts will be clunky and counter-intuitive to everything else I have!

Ha, Di2 I've never tried it. I have thought about getting or making a lever-operated derailleur. I have a homemade one in the works for my Trek project, which is currently on hold until I get some ideas on how to shape the derailleur cage. I like the René Herse sort of triangular shaped cage plates, but I feel like I'm going to have to iterate a few designs before I settle on something. For this tandem, I want a cable operated derailleur for two reasons. One is that there is a left shifter mount brazed to the frame, and it begs for use. The other is that it's a tandem and shifting quickly without a lot of talk will be preferable to my stoker, and a one-handed double shift with downtube levers is something I can do reliably and quickly. If I really like the lever-operated front derailleur on my Trek, I may consider retrofitting this bike, but then I'll have to hook the left downtube shifter up to a dynamo or some such shenanigans.

Unlike many, I really have nothing against Campy. I absolutely love their seat posts above almost everything else. I have Campy cranks on my Vitus 979. In fact, I think there's something Campy on every bike I have!! I have a couple '70s Nuovo Record front derailleurs sitting in my front derailleurs box downstairs, so I will try one and see how it goes. Why not? They should be the same general shape and cage-drop as a 1960 Record, right? Just missing the housing stop and maybe with a few extra holes in the cage. That way I can get an idea before spending any money on something more correct.

scarlson 

What's all this about? That guy in Breaking Away who stuck his pump in the protagonist's front wheel?

I can see a crash like that converting me to Suntour or whatever the baddie wasn't riding... Definitely no more Cinzano

63rickert

The housing stop was optional. If purchased those lower cable housing stop derailleurs are silly high-priced. Finding a cage without holes should not be difficult. I just can't recall how big a spread a Record will take, if you want a super wide range like 56/44/26 the old school way to do that was to add a little tail on bottom of cage.

It's going to be a good build.

63rickert

I knew all those guys. They never would of done that. Worst scene in movie. OTOH Pietro would shift your gears for you. On his winter training bike he fitted 44/42 and 15/16/16/16/17 so shifting him in return made no difference.

scarlson 

Ha, that is a funny freewheel. When I lived in France, I dated a girl who wouldn't take her hands off the bars to shift the downtubes on the PX-10 I gave lent her, so I had to change gears for her. I drew inspiration from that scene. We did not last long...

ThermionicScott 

A bell looks nice mounted to the left shifter boss, if you don't already have one.

ReidH

You could fabricate a Jo Routens style front derailleur. Twin wire like the Cyclo rear derailleur, but simple mechanism that shifts very quickly. The front part of the cage is actually a flattened part of the tubing that supports and moves the derailleur. The cage design works well with triples which isn't a surprise as a good portion of Jo Routens output appear to be triples.

scarlson 

Interesting. Here's a picture from the Mariposa Bicycles website. On looking closely, I actually like that Routens design, which I had originally passed over as "too goofy". It's rather elegant with the use of flattened tubing, and I think I could easily TIG weld it out of scrap stainless tube I have lying around work. I think I could control it with a Le Cyclo lever (affordable still) mounted on the left, with an adapter to make it fit on the Simplex boss, which is slightly different to the Le Cyclo boss.





Although I will try the easy way out with the Record derailleur first. Turns out I have a decent used one in my box. Collecting dust right next to Occam's razor.

ReidH

The best choice is what you have at hand. I would try the Record Derailleur.

The second picture is a reproduction Routens derailleur Mike Barry made without access to an original. Not quite so elegant as the real thing in the first picture.
On the real thing, the back plate of the cage has a thin right angle bend on the top edge to maintain rigidity. The cables are just regular derailleur cables fixed using the Cyclo cable fixing block in the shifter. The upper tube would have a screw fitted in the end to limit outward travel of the cage.

scarlson 

Wellp, here's the latest in this front derailleur saga.

The Nuovo Record drags on the chain in any cog in the little ring, when the thing's actually being ridden. So that's out. I took my cracked Nuovo Record and modified the cage with the TIG welder, but I have some doubts about its durability, so that project is shelved for the moment.

I don't know if I mentioned anywhere, but this isn't the hugest triple. It's 48-38-28. It should not take Spence Wolf or Chuck Harris inventions to shift this thing.

I found on French Ebay, thanks to a forum member's tip-off, a Juy 56, and I bought it. Problem solved, right? But there's another problem. Its outer cage plate does not extend down enough to knock the chain off the middle ring and into the little ring.

BUT the outer cage plate is removable, via two little screws on top of the derailleur. Did they maybe come with a selection of different cage plates? How could the Taylors' letter to J.F. Scott be correct otherwise? Maybe the triples they were talking about were narrower range.

So, only one thing to do. I made a new outer cage plate out of aluminum!



I'm calling the finished derailleur the Simplex Juy 56 Duralpin. Dural for aluminum and alpin because of the increased gear range over the original.

It shifts ok in the stand. Let's see how it does on the road!

This is all part of slow R&D for my lever front derailleur project on my Trek. I wonder how much cage shape or plate thickness matters to shift quality. It's interesting in any case.

Salamandrine 

Very cool, and certainly in the spirit of the constructeurs!

I don't see any reason that it would not work, as long as there is room for it without hitting the crank arm. I suppose there might be some issues with wear compared to a steel cage, but you can always make another one. I don't think this will be an issue in practice.

In the old days, mechanics would sometimes tweak the shape of front derailleur cages to improve shifting. That's one advantage of thin steel over aluminum. Nowadays, FD have this sort of shape molded in at the factory.

KenNC

WOW, I missed this back when it was originally posted. Really great job and I admire your expertise! Personally, I don't know that I'd do much more with the finish than treat any rust spots, and give a coat of wax.....

Wileyone 

This is fun.

L134 

that’s great. Thanks.